Price increase?

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**Slipstream**

Just a thought,I'm already getting the
feeling from what I've read on dakka that
nearly all of us are fed up with GW to the point
that a definite split has formed between
us and them.Is there a point coming where
players just say 'to hell with you,we're
going to go a seperate route with 40k'as
you are not playing fair with us.

**Jpr**

I guess they really do believe we should be spending our way out of the recession lol.

Anyway who buys stuff from GW? Indies or Ebay all the way...gifts for geeks is my local shop and everything is pretty much 25-26% off, some box sets are 20% though..valkyries for 25 pounds rock.

**BrassScorpion**

I've been in the GW hobby since Rogue Trader and seen a lot of price increases and the remarkable thing to me is that there is still nothing out there from GW with any details of the increase. The last few price increase announcements included somewhat detailed and in some cases highly detailed advance notice of exactly what was going up in price and by how much. With June 1 now just about three weeks away one would think that there'd be more details released at this point. I visit the GW US HQ store at least three times a week and I still have heard no details regarding this price increase and there's still nothing on the US GW website.

**Captain Vyper**

The word they have been using for years is "ALIGNMENT" I think its really more spin doctor than anything else but they do actually move prices up and down. As I understood it from one of my better reps thorough out the years I have been in stores, they track the sales of every item and shift the prices around in a goal for every thing to be in a universal price band that has the best possibility of company profit. Its the goal of every business.

Their model has changed over the years but the end result is making the most money from their product. In 2nd ed days they used to sell odd numbers of figures in blisters, you always seemed to have an extra guy laying around. I used to think it was odd but soon realized every other player I talked to had the same idea, "well I might as well pick up another blister of this or that and I can make another squad." It was silly how well it worked. Then came the mandatory ordering of 6 of every blister and 2 of every box set that was a new release! Holy crap that was a rough one, because if you did not want 6 you had to wait 2 weeks to order the new product so you competition had a chance to sell theirs first. Admittedly that only lasted about 6-8 months or so as the back lash from the stores was total! Then came the alignments, moving the prices up and down to unify the prices, and it did make some stuff easier in the shops. I remember the old metal IG heavy weapon teams were about 15-18 for a blister then they were "aligned" to 10 I remember selling and buying crazy amounts of teams when that happened. Now comes the box modifications, where they are changing the amount of troops or equipment you get in a box, troops going down equipment options going up. Lots of bits left over, so you sort of think if you pick up another troop box you can make a lot more stuff for your army with the extra bits. Think about it.

No one sees the prices that go down, mostly because its stuff your not going to buy anyway but the bumps across the board on stuff everyone has to buy to play is what the spot light falls on. With the current economy a price increase seems really ridiculous, they are not going to convince anyone that skipping this one would cripple their company or do them any serious harm. There is a serious attitude toward discount purchasing now but I fear we are missing the point. A $5 or GBP or what ever money increase still happens, if your buy all your stuff at %20 off %100 of the time you are still gonna have to pay the increase! It might make it easier for you mind to take solace in you saving %20 but the end result is GW gets the EXACT same price from the shops that sell at full retail VS the discounters. What they do with it has no real impact on the flat price everyone pays. Yes long runs may see shops going under to discounters and the loss of revenue from them but in all honesty any store who depends solely on GW to stay open has other issues.

They usually have the info out long in advance before they move the prices around but if the rumors of these mass increase are true it could finally have the big end negative impact we have been talking about for years. guess we will have to wait and see.

**Wedge**

Hi Guys
This is my first post on these forums so its a shame it is on a subject such as this.

Just wanted to stick what i know into the fray :-)

The manager of my local GW store has given me basic info about the price increase. Whats funny is that the store staff genuinly dont know that much about it.
The basic feeling is that everything will be going up a price bracket. They were unsure how much hobby materials would be affected and were also unsure about the price of terrain changing. However i do know Assault on Black reach will now retail at £50. Still good value IMO but a hefty increase nonetheless.

Wedge

**Xelkireth**

I'm not really surprised. If Phillip and Morris are raising the prices on cigarettes in this economy, gas is on the rise again, nothing is safe.

**Grunt_For_Christ**

Captain Vyper wrote:The word they have been using for years is "ALIGNMENT" I think its really more spin doctor than anything else but they do actually move prices up and down. As I understood it from one of my better reps thorough out the years I have been in stores, they track the sales of every item and shift the prices around in a goal for every thing to be in a universal price band that has the best possibility of company profit. Its the goal of every business.

Their model has changed over the years but the end result is making the most money from their product. In 2nd ed days they used to sell odd numbers of figures in blisters, you always seemed to have an extra guy laying around. I used to think it was odd but soon realized every other player I talked to had the same idea, "well I might as well pick up another blister of this or that and I can make another squad." It was silly how well it worked. Then came the mandatory ordering of 6 of every blister and 2 of every box set that was a new release! Holy crap that was a rough one, because if you did not want 6 you had to wait 2 weeks to order the new product so you competition had a chance to sell theirs first. Admittedly that only lasted about 6-8 months or so as the back lash from the stores was total! Then came the alignments, moving the prices up and down to unify the prices, and it did make some stuff easier in the shops. I remember the old metal IG heavy weapon teams were about 15-18 for a blister then they were "aligned" to 10 I remember selling and buying crazy amounts of teams when that happened. Now comes the box modifications, where they are changing the amount of troops or equipment you get in a box, troops going down equipment options going up. Lots of bits left over, so you sort of think if you pick up another troop box you can make a lot more stuff for your army with the extra bits. Think about it.

No one sees the prices that go down, mostly because its stuff your not going to buy anyway but the bumps across the board on stuff everyone has to buy to play is what the spot light falls on. With the current economy a price increase seems really ridiculous, they are not going to convince anyone that skipping this one would cripple their company or do them any serious harm. There is a serious attitude toward discount purchasing now but I fear we are missing the point. A $5 or GBP or what ever money increase still happens, if your buy all your stuff at %20 off %100 of the time you are still gonna have to pay the increase! It might make it easier for you mind to take solace in you saving %20 but the end result is GW gets the EXACT same price from the shops that sell at full retail VS the discounters. What they do with it has no real impact on the flat price everyone pays. Yes long runs may see shops going under to discounters and the loss of revenue from them but in all honesty any store who depends solely on GW to stay open has other issues.

They usually have the info out long in advance before they move the prices around but if the rumors of these mass increase are true it could finally have the big end negative impact we have been talking about for years. guess we will have to wait and see.

That's exactly right. If the price increases and you get 20% off you're still paying the increase. Wholesale costs are what they are, and I'm sure they don't budge on those. Retailers have to pay the price that they pay no matter what so GW does in fact get exactly what they want. And even though we all get our stuff from ebay, someone had to buy those sets originally, thus giving the monkey suits what they want. There isn't much anyone can do about this except reduce our consumption all the way around, which is something we all need to do more of I think.

**Sazzlefrats**

I think a number of us don't have a firm grip on the reality of the miniature gaming industry. At the game store of my choice, they cater to just about every major miniture game thats currently made. On any particular night I'll see five game systems being played, and I'm sure there's around 30 different gaming companies miniatures being used.

I keep thinking from reading all the doom and gloom about GW raising prices, that some company out there must be a heck of a lot cheaper, and the reality is... NO. No one has cheap mini's... not reaper, not confrontation, not AT-43, not those ancient wargame companies, plastic costs as much as metal almost every single time. And frickn privateer press is even more expensive than GW, in many cases.

The whole industry is expensive. (No wonder my eldar army was mostly 2nd ed minis until the day it was stolen last month).

The secondary market... ebay and getting mini's used is the way to go. I picked up a $1000 nid army for 300, and traded it for an eldar army... Yay, I'm back to playing the game, except now I'm all 3rd/4th ed mini's. Thats how yah do it, if you don't got cash.

**FieronThor**

I don't have a deep econmoical understanding of this - but personally from a 40k perspective, I would of preferred it if they had increased the prices on Elites/Heavy Support, but left the Troops alone.

That way they could accomplish their goal of getting a price increase, and justifying it by saying most of the core choices are still 'cheap'. It would allow them to introduce in new players - by saying it's still a relatively cheap game. Meanwhile long term players would likely still pay for the pricier Elites/HS choices (the Imperial Guard for all it's great troop choices relies on the tanks and skimmers to make it a good codex) for variety and understanding that this is what they need to play games.

**konversionz**

Gw last put prices up on the back of high oil prices saying they were "forced" to do it, oil prices are a 3rd of what they were back then and now games workshop are putting prices up again.

I wonder what the excuse will be this time ?

Most of games workshops sales are made through independant stockists and so the rrp means little.Games workshop need to realise that most of there products are being sold at a much lower price than the rrp and that makes the rrp invalid.

**Xelkireth**

konversionz wrote:Gw last put prices up on the back of high oil prices saying they were "forced" to do it, oil prices are a 3rd of what they were back then and now games workshop are putting prices up again.

I wonder what the excuse will be this time ?

Most of games workshops sales are made through independant stockists and so the rrp means little.Games workshop need to realise that most of there products are being sold at a much lower price than the rrp and that makes the rrp invalid.

Yeah. If I'm not buying online, or I need something fast, I pick it up at a FLGS that offers around 10% off box retail price.

**Kronus VI**

The first thing any businesses person needs to learn, RESPECT THE CUSTOMER, something GW has never truly done. There to obsessed with making money now to actually make any money.(If that makes any sense), They would make so much more money by reducing the prices, but GW doesnt listen to the customers, someone must have fallen asleep during college, That is, if they ever went.

**theHandofGork**

Sazzlefrats wrote:I think a number of us don't have a firm grip on the reality of the miniature gaming industry. At the game store of my choice, they cater to just about every major miniture game thats currently made. On any particular night I'll see five game systems being played, and I'm sure there's around 30 different gaming companies miniatures being used.

I keep thinking from reading all the doom and gloom about GW raising prices, that some company out there must be a heck of a lot cheaper, and the reality is... NO. No one has cheap mini's... not reaper, not confrontation, not AT-43, not those ancient wargame companies, plastic costs as much as metal almost every single time. And frickn privateer press is even more expensive than GW, in many cases.

You're right, miniature company's that are cheaper than GW just don't exist.

http://www.wargamesfactory.com/
http://www.perry-miniatures.com/
http://www.warlordgames.co.uk/
http://www.pig-iron-productions.com/
http://www.wargamesfoundry.com/

**malfred**

SonsOfLoki wrote:Its only applying to some products, although this will break all of our wallets

Why? I spend the same amount every month.

I'm not expanding my budget to fit their expectations.

**Typeline**

malfred wrote:
SonsOfLoki wrote:Its only applying to some products, although this will break all of our wallets

Why? I spend the same amount every month.

I'm not expanding my budget to fit their expectations.

I'm with malf here. I spend the same amount every month, sometimes less if I see that stuff is more expensive. But only so I can buy some more PP stuff. Usually spend 100$ or 150$ a month. I've been cutting back in the past few months. I'm just trying to get all my characters for my VC army (PP models, because all the GW vamps look like gak). Then I'm not really going to be buying anything, unless they release Cathay as the new fantasy army. But even then, maybe not if the models suck.

My final big purchases will probably be a mounted Fenris from PP and a Zombie Dragon from GW. So I can have one sweet looking dude on one sweet looking mount. That's 100$ right there. But I already spent 80$ this month so I'm done. Maybe next month.

It's ok if the prices go up, at least I can still count my blessing that I have a great job.

**Captain Vyper**

Yeah, dont get me wrong guys I am not going to quit GW any time soon. Mostely because over all I like their product alot. I own more of it that most stores I go into, so theres an investmetn angel there as well. I could stop buying stuff today and build and paint what I own and not be finished in probably 4 years. I will just be choosing my purchases more carefully and will not be making as many impulse buys as the supposed price changes will probably polace those out of the wallets ability to do so.

My main point was that no matter where you buy it GW still got its pound of flesh for what you are buying, and thats all they are looking for. Thats what ultimately drives their trends, scemes and maketing decisions. So dont think your "sticking it to the man" because you didnt pay full retail.

Supporting your FLGS is still the way to go as they are more likely to have a meeting space, tabels and terrain to use. If they dont, that of corse there is not as much cause for you to do so I understand. If your a game at home sort of guy thats cool too, but we all know that some times gets old and new blood is always good.

I think they really are dangerously close to crossing the thresh hold of what the average gamer will be ale to afford to play, and the sales of product at these new prices will ulitmately decide that.

Sure there are other games out there but as SAZZLE pointed out most of them are a very similar price and all of them have their trade offs, GW is in my opinion the best over all of those, but as I said before I think they are dangeously close. HANDOFGORK mentioned some alternative that are not as pricey but whats the trade off, worse rules, lower quality figs, limited range/scope, time between new releases?

Its all up to the buyer and how we buy decides what the company will do. Thats the bottom line folks. You can rail against "the man" all you like on the boards, but if you buy any thing from them your supporting their agenda.

Now the trick is to find out if their agenda can be accomplished with reduced volume from their consumer because the product is out pacing the targets audience's disposable income!

**Osbad**

malfred wrote:
SonsOfLoki wrote:Its only applying to some products, although this will break all of our wallets

Why? I spend the same amount every month.

I'm not expanding my budget to fit their expectations.

In fact it *saves* me money. I look at my gaming budget, look at the piddly amount of GW's toy soldiers it will buy and say "soddit", thereby keeping my wallet intact!

**Frazzled**

malfred wrote:
SonsOfLoki wrote:Its only applying to some products, although this will break all of our wallets

Why? I spend the same amount every month.

I'm not expanding my budget to fit their expectations.

Indeed the opposite is true. The more you price me out the less likely I am to play their reindeer games at all.

**BioRebel**

Is today the day? The site is down...

**Fafnir**

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:At Vompire:

Your point about it being monopolistic is EXACTLY what I'm saying! Everything with them is centralized and has thus taken them further and further away from their market. One of the hallmarks of socialsim. GW certainly isn't socialist, but the way they operate certainly not a free market, democratic way of doing things.

It actually has nothing to do with socialism, but okay.

Anyway, apparently, GW wants to shaft the independant retailers as well.... let me get that article...

Some interesting news cropped up on some of the other sites recently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigbossogryn
Today I was talking with a close friend who is an independent stockist of GW goods and something very interesting was raised during our conversation. Apparently, GW have confirmed an initiative will go active sometime in June that has been two years in the making (mainly due to legal issues). This initiative involves the use of a tier system to rate indies and then adjust how much discount their trade account is liable for.

Sounds interesting so far, right?

There will be four tiers (one to four funnily enough) with one being the best and four being the worst in terms of trade discount and 'other' perks which I am not at liberty to discuss. Which tier an indie factors into will be determined by a point system with the maximum being twenty four (I'm guessing six points to a tier) and the indie will score points by basically being a mini GW store. By this I mean having GW product advertised clearly and having it on display, running gaming clubs and intro games to name a few.

By the sounds of it, 99% of dedicated online stores will be tier four, meaning that they will clear less on GW products unless they start selling a shed load more. Here's an example:

Space Marine Bike - £10 to us general public
Tier 4 store trade price - £7.77 excluding tax
Tier 1 store trade price - £5.77 excluding tax

So, is this GW finally plugging the hole that is online stores? Discuss

Our very own rich1231 also added later on:

Quote:
Originally Posted by rich1231
Its not a rumour.

foolish to comment fully until we have the new trade terms documents and I have had them scrutinized.

I still fully believe this will lead to consolidation of online retailers. And that B&M retail is non viable in most areas of the UK and europe in this climate.

rich1231 being the owner of a large online webstore, so obviously in a good position to comment on this particular topic. To summarise the content of some of the rumours and threads (full largely of the usual drumbeating posts that go with these topics), apparently GW intends to offer a tiered discount system to resellers. The idea being that GW rewards those with a brick and mortar presence similar to GW hobby shops and 'penalises' (or 'unrewards' if you like) those resellers who are less like a GW hobby shop, i.e. online only resellers and small LGS's that stock limited GW product.

From my point of view this is comes across as a kick in the nuts for those of us that regard GW prices as too high and only remain in the hobby due to 20%+ discount internet sites. It could be that I have misjudged GWs aim, the proof in the trade documents remains to be seen, but it appears that GW are making an attempt to further control GW product resellers. 'If you have a 'hobby centre' and sell lots of GW product you get a nice discount, otherwise kindly get fethed'.

It would seem that this will really hurt the small independent shops and online stores that aren't just a facsimile of a GW hobby shop or don't have the required turnover to access a good tier. I am sure there will still be some discount shops, but a reduced market and more control over discounts and resellers by GW may (pessimistically perhaps) result in less discount for us, the playing and paying public.

If this proves to be the case, for me I suspect it will mean GWs bizarre approach to marketing in a recession will finally help me kick the habit, I mean hobby...
Games Workshop (the people who have all your money)
Also Games Workshop Stores

Friendly Local Game Strore

Not sure where it's from exactly, but if it's true, it bodes very badly for the future. I'm really hoping it's just a rumour, but it sounds like something GW would do.

**Mad Rabbit**

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:At Vompire:

Your point about it being monopolistic is EXACTLY what I'm saying! Everything with them is centralized and has thus taken them further and further away from their market. One of the hallmarks of socialsim. GW certainly isn't socialist, but the way they operate certainly not a free market, democratic way of doing things.

They do in fact have a point... Who are they competing with in the 40k universe? They do have a monopoly, but their way of administration is about as responsive to the needs of others in the same way as an old guy before he takes his viagra.

Currently practiced socialism (democratic socialism, like in scandinavia) is nothing like what you are talking about.
Essentially it's capitalism except that you pay more taxes and in return, more industries are controlled by the government and free to you (healthcare, education, etc.)
Communism would be the only economic system where production of miniatures is controlled by the government.

GW operates in the way every free market company dreams about operating. They have a loyal fanbase and no significant competitors. They essentially have you by (two very sensitive parts of the body) and you'll do what they say.

To get back on subject, yeah, the price increase is a drag if you aren't already buying from someone else, in which case it won't have as big of an impact.

As long as the price of space corridors and industrial towers remains stable, I think we will be ok.

**Grotsnik**

Another price increase will just about do it for me. Right now I am using the horde of models I have accumulated over the past approx 16 yrs and suf i can get cheap of the web trade sites. Only buy new when it is something for my tourny army ( down to 1 from a total of 5).
See lots of kids now that want to play but just acn't afford it. GW is just pricing the younger players out of the game, with the 20-30 y/o group not too far behind them.

**Ian Sturrock**

You know, we're looking at birthday presents for my son, and I'm thinking stuff like, "My, £25-odd for a Battlewagon seems like a lot of cash", but actually, all the big Playmobil and Lego sets we used to buy him not so long ago tended to be in the £30, £40, even £80 price range...

Our toy soldiers are not really all that expensive, yet.

Admittedly, they may be, if we start having to pay full RRP, AND there's a big price increase.

Still... eBay... or even car boot sales! One of the guys at my local gaming club occasionally picks up GW boxed sets still on the sprue for £1 or £2 a time, as long as he asks the stallholder "How much for the toy soldiers?" instead of "How much for the highly collectable miniature figures?"

**mikhaila**

Fafnir wrote:
Grunt_For_Christ wrote:At Vompire:

Your point about it being monopolistic is EXACTLY what I'm saying! Everything with them is centralized and has thus taken them further and further away from their market. One of the hallmarks of socialsim. GW certainly isn't socialist, but the way they operate certainly not a free market, democratic way of doing things.

It actually has nothing to do with socialism, but okay.

Anyway, apparently, GW wants to shaft the independant retailers as well.... let me get that article...

Some interesting news cropped up on some of the other sites recently.

Something like this might go into effect in Europe/UK. It is not, repeat NOT, going into effect in the US/North America. Called up and checked on this directly with GW, (Since it directly effects my business relationship with them.) and I verified that this is not a change in how they handle independents, at least on this side of the Atlantic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigbossogryn
Today I was talking with a close friend who is an independent stockist of GW goods and something very interesting was raised during our conversation. Apparently, GW have confirmed an initiative will go active sometime in June that has been two years in the making (mainly due to legal issues). This initiative involves the use of a tier system to rate indies and then adjust how much discount their trade account is liable for.

Sounds interesting so far, right?

There will be four tiers (one to four funnily enough) with one being the best and four being the worst in terms of trade discount and 'other' perks which I am not at liberty to discuss. Which tier an indie factors into will be determined by a point system with the maximum being twenty four (I'm guessing six points to a tier) and the indie will score points by basically being a mini GW store. By this I mean having GW product advertised clearly and having it on display, running gaming clubs and intro games to name a few.

By the sounds of it, 99% of dedicated online stores will be tier four, meaning that they will clear less on GW products unless they start selling a shed load more. Here's an example:

Space Marine Bike - £10 to us general public
Tier 4 store trade price - £7.77 excluding tax
Tier 1 store trade price - £5.77 excluding tax

So, is this GW finally plugging the hole that is online stores? Discuss

Our very own rich1231 also added later on:

Quote:
Originally Posted by rich1231
Its not a rumour.

foolish to comment fully until we have the new trade terms documents and I have had them scrutinized.

I still fully believe this will lead to consolidation of online retailers. And that B&M retail is non viable in most areas of the UK and europe in this climate.

rich1231 being the owner of a large online webstore, so obviously in a good position to comment on this particular topic. To summarise the content of some of the rumours and threads (full largely of the usual drumbeating posts that go with these topics), apparently GW intends to offer a tiered discount system to resellers. The idea being that GW rewards those with a brick and mortar presence similar to GW hobby shops and 'penalises' (or 'unrewards' if you like) those resellers who are less like a GW hobby shop, i.e. online only resellers and small LGS's that stock limited GW product.

From my point of view this is comes across as a kick in the nuts for those of us that regard GW prices as too high and only remain in the hobby due to 20%+ discount internet sites. It could be that I have misjudged GWs aim, the proof in the trade documents remains to be seen, but it appears that GW are making an attempt to further control GW product resellers. 'If you have a 'hobby centre' and sell lots of GW product you get a nice discount, otherwise kindly get fethed'.

It would seem that this will really hurt the small independent shops and online stores that aren't just a facsimile of a GW hobby shop or don't have the required turnover to access a good tier. I am sure there will still be some discount shops, but a reduced market and more control over discounts and resellers by GW may (pessimistically perhaps) result in less discount for us, the playing and paying public.

If this proves to be the case, for me I suspect it will mean GWs bizarre approach to marketing in a recession will finally help me kick the habit, I mean hobby...
Games Workshop (the people who have all your money)
Also Games Workshop Stores

Friendly Local Game Strore

Not sure where it's from exactly, but if it's true, it bodes very badly for the future. I'm really hoping it's just a rumour, but it sounds like something GW would do.