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sourclams wrote: A normal Leman Russ could, at a maximum, hit 10. If they scatter too far, they could hit as few as zero. One main template weapon is sort of an all-or-nothing proposition.

A fully decked plasma executioner could hit 7 or more with a direct hit, and again 0 with a scatter, but on average you'll get at least one direct hit. So that's a minimum of 7 hits, maximum of 35 hits.

It's a little unfair to compare a Russ without sponsons to a Executioner with sponsons. A more apt comparison is a naked Leman Russ and a Griffon versus a Executioner with sponsons. And even then, the Executioner is the more expensive option. The Executioner's main armament is undeniably better than the standard Russ in most situations. But it's also significantly more expensive, and has 1/2 the range of the standard Leman Russ.

I agree that the Executioner is solid. But I disagree that it's the "only Leman Russ variant that is needed" unless you don't consider the standard 'Russ to be a "variant." And even then, I think the Demolisher can find a home in some highly competitive IG builds.

What Russ variant excels against armor? None, due to a combination of low ballistic skill and non-AP1. Against heavy armor any Russ is pretty much fail, against light armor the Exterminator excels and the Executioner actually does pretty good with blast positioning to overlap onto any nearby infantry.

What Russ variant excels at killing men? Several, but when only comparing main weapons, the executioner comes out on top due to more blasts and AP2. A single pie plate is going to scatter 4 turns out of 6. If you're not hitting at least 6 guys, in cover, on the scatter, then you're not even forcing leadership tests. The Executioner, with 1 hit a turn, is guaranteed to hit at least 3 (probably more) with quite possibly a few more due to scatters.

Range? 36" isn't the entire table, but it's pretty hard to escape. 72" is largely wasted. 24" is definitely short. 48" is ideal. There's really no winner here, as the Demolisher just isn't good against many targets. If you're shooting at MEQ, the LRBT does just as well at longer range, and the Executioner does better at longer range. If you're shooting at Land Raiders... well, it's an act of desperation and you're quite probably fethed regardless.

Punisher
-HB sponsons
-Pask

220 pts. 29 shots with BS4 S5 shots is definately a troop killer, probly best one out there for 220

29 shots, roughly 20 hits, 14 wounds, 5 dead Marines.

220 points for 5 dead Marines with a 24" range? That's firmly in the realm of "meh". That, and it's total fail against FNP.

Devil dog & creed.

Use creed to 'Bring it down!' orders onto your vets, as he can reach 24"+6" - They will miss alot less

Devil dogs - MEQ pant wetters.

sourclams wrote:What Russ variant excels against armor?

Against AV14? Ugh.

The Vanquisher *should* be your main pick, as that's its nominal primary role... But BS3 means it'll miss when you need a hit. Though, assuming you score a hit, 8+2d6 should Penetrate most of the time. The problem is that you're only scoring a Pen twice or 3 times per game. With 4+ Cover being common, that's not really good enough.

Moving to Paskquisher, you might score an extra Pen each game. Not enough improved for the cost.

Demolisher S10 Ordnance will pen AV14 like a VBC and hit just as often, so wins out on a points utility basis.


But none of these are really good.


And even the Vendetta has problems unless you're giving up SMF.

What is interesting is that Mathhammer has all 3 "good" Anti-Tank options (PasQ, Demo, & Vend) top out at roughly 60% Pen rate when they go full-shooting at range.


The only way to do appreciably better is with a PCS drive-by, unloading 4 Meltas at close range, which has its own challenges due to the Melta range issue.

JohnHwangDD wrote:And even the Vendetta has problems unless you're giving up SMF.

No vehicle can get SMF and still shoot, so its not an issue.

A battery of Medusas with bunker busters is expensive, but it will crush any single vehicle, and probably a lot of the nearby stuff with scatters. It's my personal choice for long range AV, Vendettas a close second.

I agree with sourclams on the executioner. You just have to try it to see its killing potential.

I place it as the top standout vehicle choice in the new dex. These are the mech units I am loving in my playtesting:

1. Executioner
2. Vendettas
3. A pair of Hydras

im not too keen on some of the new russes.

the eradicator has AP 4 and the majority of people i play have 3+ saves. the range is ok for small games but in say, apocalypse where Guard excel it's a bit short. instead id take a collossus siege mortar. longer range, ignores cover as well and is AP 3. all for 140 points, 20 points cheaper.

the vanquisher in old armoured company rules was a good tank but the new guard codex has spoiled it.

the punisher looks cool with heavy 20 but after hitting wounds and armour its not as good. take a stormlord instead, with S6 and AP 3.

the exterminator would be good against Tau or Nids but not against Marines, which alot of people play.

the excecutioner is the only new tank i like. it can deal with any infantry, and low armoured vehicles even if it is alot of points.

the good old demolisher. apart from the range it's a good tank. id kit it out with either multi meltas and a lascannon to make it anti tank or 3 h bolters for Anti Infantry.

The Battle Tank. the all rounder. i give mine 2 hbolters and a LC so it can deal with infantry and pop a tank or two if necacery.

If I'm taking one, its the executioner.

If I'm russ spamming (aka not spamming vendettas and meltas like crazy), I'd add some demolishers.... thought that is probably not the strongest army out there...