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Cheese Elemental wrote:Well maybe he did see it coming, but thought that humanity would be able to control itself. Inevitably, there are sinners in eveery society.

And I'm getting this locked because it's going to fall into a flame war.

Thats also interesting , because that raised another issue doesnt it.

That would have to mean god is very young , and we are his first creations?
( and look how old the universe is , we KNOW its old via calculations of how fast Light Travels ) So who created the universe? cant be god because he is too young.

Because after all , even we know ourselves "human beings are stupid and we repeat our mistakes over and over and over and over and over again"

Too many flaws in the theory Cheese , trust me im not flaming you at all.
You wish to speak for your believes by making this thread ,
I wish to speak my believes by replying , and with my respects i only reply with valid points.

I was having a religoulous talk with my dad, when he answered a question I had.

"Why do the major religon have to go into conflict? I mean, really they have the same basic beliefs, right? They all believe one god, killing is a sin and all that jazz, but they'll fiight each other like in the Crusades and now with suicide bombers." says I.

Mydads answer: "People in power being asswipes. Simple as that."

Do you agree, or disagree?

Golden Eyed Scout wrote:I was having a religoulous talk with my dad, when he answered a question I had.

"Why do the major religon have to go into conflict? I mean, really they have the same basic beliefs, right? They all believe one god, killing is a sin and all that jazz, but they'll fiight each other like in the Crusades and now with suicide bombers." says I.

Mydads answer: "People in power being asswipes. Simple as that."

Do you agree, or disagree?

Agree


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I absolutely agree. Which is why i dont really have interest in participating in major religious events. Sort of disappointing if you think about it when you see the higher ups are just as flawed, if not worse or more corrupted.

I never said God created the universe. Neither does the Bible.

It says that God created the heavens and earth, and in the dark days when it was written, nobody ever thought that there was anything beyond the sky.

Cheese Elemental wrote:I never said God created the universe. Neither does the Bible.

It says that God created the heavens and earth, and in the dark days when it was written, nobody ever thought that there was anything beyond the sky.

How can it be absolute truth then?

What are you on about?

It does not say in the Bible that there isn't anything beyond the sky, because nobody knew.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What are you on about?

It does not say in the Bible that there isn't anything beyond the sky, because nobody knew.

Would you listen to the people telling you the world is square , or its held together by giant turtle , snakes , and elephants?

The concept of divinity was conceived to help people explain things that they didn't understand. Hence the conflict between religion and science. The more we understand, the less we need religion. Religion will inevitably fall to the power of reason and logic.

LunaHound wrote:
Would you listen to the people telling you the world is square , or its held together by giant turtle , snakes , and elephants?

That isn't really relevant, is it?

And religion isn't for explaining the unexplainable; it's another viewpoint. There isn't anything to prove that the Bible is pure falsehood. Like I said earlier, both evolutionism and creationism could be wrong.

I mean, it doesn't add up for me. Humanity was a fluke, one in a billion species that evolved into a higher form of life? We just happened to have an ideal body structure for dealing with advanced technology? It's too much of a coincidence.

Of course its relevant , i have been reading your *divine truth since page 1. Now you are going to come back telling me it could both be wrong.

Whats the deal of this thread then?

How many billions of years old is the universe that 1 coincidence cant spark the start of life?

So yes , humanity was product of such fluke.

What make you think humans are the only existing organisms capable of technology . How do you know we arnt on the X th cycle of organisms capable of technology since existance of earth?

We all know within our solar system all the planets have been bombarded by meteors for eons. Earth cant be the only one without such catastrophe ( well look at dinosaurs for one )

As far as im concerned , any organism have the capacity of evolving into higher intelligence . It just happens that homo sapiens filled that niche first within the balance of our current ecology ( though we are doing pretty badly )

But logically ANYONE on either side of the argument could be wrong.

Eh... I'm starting to have doubts about this religion. If we're a fluke? Why are we here? What's the point of everything?

So, religion is pointless then. I've just been a raving lunatic who's only going to be remembered for leaving his senses behind.

Time to say goodbye to religion, I suppose.

The ultimate goal of most if not all religions is to explain why we are here, and what happens when we die. This is because the human mind cannot comphrehend not existing. Thus we needed to create a life after death so that we would not cease to exist. The sad reality is that when we die, we die. You think therefore you are, when you die you do not think therefore you are not. As for why we are here, who knows? I am of the opinion that we are not here for a "purpose". we are just organisms, a fluke, as are the doubtless billions of other intelligent lifeforms in the universe (or multiverse, if you are familiar with string theory?). but if you really want to go deeper into this ask yourself this question: The universe has been proven to be expanding, so, what is it expanding into? Heaven? Another Universe? Nothingness? food for thought.

Ah, but you don't know that, do you? How can you be sure if there is or isn't an afterlife? Nobody knows, because nobody comes back.

of course i don't know. but logic would dictate that there isn't. this is exactly why people invent religions. because they don't know.

What logic? You can't logically disprove the existence of an afterlife. Who's to say there's no such thing as a soul? An ethereal projection of ourselves residing inside of us all? You can't scientificaly prove it.

rubiksnoob wrote:The concept of divinity was conceived to help people explain things that they didn't understand. Hence the conflict between religion and science. The more we understand, the less we need religion. Religion will inevitably fall to the power of reason and logic.

First of all it is mistaken to presume that religion does not involve reason. Theology is nothing more than the application of logic to art.

Second, religion is primarily a means of maintaining continuity within a given community. Its a kind of starting point for interpersonal discourse meant to spur collective action that does not necessarily oppose science, or make any specific reference to explanatory forces.

Cheese Elemental wrote:
That isn't really relevant, is it?

And religion isn't for explaining the unexplainable; it's another viewpoint. There isn't anything to prove that the Bible is pure falsehood. Like I said earlier, both evolutionism and creationism could be wrong.

It isn't really another viewpoint in the sense that you seem to be using the term. Religion deals directly with emotion and experience. Its a matter of aesthetics as derived from a critical examination of the distant past. It is another way of looking at the world, but it is not in theoretical opposition to the scientific project.

Cheese Elemental wrote:
I mean, it doesn't add up for me. Humanity was a fluke, one in a billion species that evolved into a higher form of life? We just happened to have an ideal body structure for dealing with advanced technology? It's too much of a coincidence.

Who says that humanity is a higher form of life? Or that our bodies are ideal for the manipulation of advanced technology? An extra set of arms would certainly make a lot of tasks a whole lot easier.

Religion is not pointless , on the contrary its very much needed.

How much an individual needs spiritual guidance also differs to the individual's view on religion.

Thats all religion is , and thats all it does for us. To comfort us at times when we are vulnerable . To fill the void when our lack of experience cannot comprehend what we see.
To guide us when we are been led astray by individual greed and desires.

To remind us to stand firm against our own weakness.

No no, it's obviously pointless, and I'm just mad is all. Just like my Mormon friend is mad, and my whole church is mad, and a third of the world's population is mad. We're all living in a delusion and we're going to be stuck in the past while the aetheists and scientists advance on and on and on.

you can't disprove it either. THIS is what I'm talking about. Souls, afterlives, all a romanticized, comforting explanation for the unexplained. If I am going to believe in something I want proof.

And there's no proof that there isn't an afterlife. You've run circles around yourself logically.

Cheese Elemental wrote:No no, it's obviously pointless, and I'm just mad is all. Just like my Mormon friend is mad, and my whole church is mad, and a third of the world's population is mad. We're all living in a delusion and we're going to be stuck in the past while the aetheists and scientists advance on and on and on.

Oh? then there is one simple solution. Just live your life to be someone good , thus if:

Heaven exists , great you'll be there.

No after life? thats fine too . Because you can be proud of all the greatness you have done and die in peace.

Oh, but I won't die in peace, knowing I'm completely flying rodent gak insane, because we can never stop asking questions, never stop wondering what the point of it is. And I can't bear to have questions unanswered.

Cheese Elemental wrote:Oh, but I won't die in peace, knowing I'm completely flying rodent gak insane, because we can never stop asking questions, never stop wondering what the point of it is. And I can't bear to have questions unanswered.

Well what can i say , you must live a very good life to have time to worry about these issues.

Why not take the opportunity and study to become a scientist and help discover the truth.

Good life? My bad life was why I chose this in the first place. Science only aggravated me. I see people killed by white phosphorous on the news, and the atomic bombs destroying Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Who invented those? Scientists. It's doing far more harm than religion nowadays.

Cheese Elemental wrote:And there's no proof that there isn't an afterlife. You've run circles around yourself logically.

No,I'm sorry,simply because there is no proof that no after life exist does not mean that an after life exist buy default,as Rubiksnoob was stating,the concept of an afterlife is comforting to many people,but it's just an IDEA,you have the IDEA that an after life exist,and that's your right,many,myself included,have an IDEA that this existince here on earth is what you get,so you had best enjoy it andmake the best out of life.
Neither side can PROVE the other side is wrong,nor IMO should they attempt to,if you find comfort in your faith then by all means pursue it,just have the understanding that many disagree with your oppinions & choose not to place "faith" in the unknowable.

That's what I'm saying, anybody could be wrong, and nobody can EVER be right.

Cheese Elemental wrote:Good life? My bad life was why I chose this in the first place. Science only aggravated me. I see people killed by white phosphorous on the news, and the atomic bombs destroying Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Who invented those? Scientists. It's doing far more harm than religion nowadays.

You are blaming it on the wrong person . Scientist didnt kill anyone , its those who wish to abuse the knowledge.

There will always be those abusers because we are human , how will our race go on if we are scared of such things?

We might as well go back to the stone age , but oh no we already discovered fire + tools .

Maybe monkey or apes?

Ah, but why did we need white phosphorous or the atomic bomb in the first place? Scientists wanted it, so they could see their nation rise above the others.

Cheese Elemental wrote:Ah, but why did we need white phosphorous or the atomic bomb in the first place? Scientists wanted it, so they could see their nation rise above the others.

The study of atom had nothing to do with war.

However the military took interest in the potential and of course funded the scientist with the experiments.
Thats not saying all scientist are innocent im sure some have their own personal interests.


Tell me cheees, is there anything you love in the world? Anything.

Cheese Elemental wrote:That's what I'm saying, anybody could be wrong, and nobody can EVER be right.

Agreed,I belive the main issue here is mutual respect,belive it or not Cheese,I respect your rights to belive in whatever you choose to belive in,nor do I particularly belive your "bats%#@ crazy",although I have seen many christians who I thought were indeed nuts (outside rock concerts mostly).
Basicly,I respect your views and your right to belive that god exist,simply respect those who belive there is no god,because that's our choice.