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I wonder if the lasgun lack is simply an oversight. I mean, it wouldn't be the first time that GW did something like that.

@MC
You cant grav-chute in any longer. Unless you take a Valk.
And your suggesting charging instead of shooting with a Line squad???? Whats more if you can do this then your opponent must be a fool or have expendable transports that have been driven up to block line of sight.

Look at the Ork codex. Laugh and go wow at the fluffy awesome rules.
Look at the IG codex. Do exactly the opposite.

I'm actualy happy that my old 2nd ed IG sgt with a bolt pistol and a las pistol suddenly became WYSIWYG.

I'm just really annoyed they went and taunted all those who had already converted models by having a "Sergeant with Boltgun" on pg 79 of the new codex

yani wrote:@MC
You cant grav-chute in any longer. Unless you take a Valk.
And your suggesting charging instead of shooting with a Line squad???? Whats more if you can do this then your opponent must be a fool or have expendable transports that have been driven up to block line of sight.

It is a completely viable and effective way to deal with an opposing tank provided you have Krak Grenades in the unit and (though optional) a meltabomb on the Sarge. Would you rather have 1 BS3 heavy weapon and 1 BS3 special weapon on the front armor of a vehicle, or 9 Krak Grenades and a Meltabomb piling onto the rear armor? I'll take the latter.

Even still, you can shoot your assault/heavy weapons and then charge when you don't blow the tank up due to the poor odds of hitting both times and then scoring an AP roll that causes a wrecked/destroyed result.

dietrich wrote:I wonder if the lasgun lack is simply an oversight.

I'm treating it that way.
____

Caffran9 wrote:Would you rather have 1 BS3 heavy weapon and 1 BS3 special weapon on the front armor of a vehicle, or 9 Krak Grenades and a Meltabomb piling onto the rear armor?

Actually, I'd rather have seen GW add the option to take a Demo Charge instead of a Heavy Weapon. That'd have been cool.

So far, the inablity to take a Sgt with a lasgun is my only gripe so far. But I'm still reading. Then again I'm starting Valhallans so all my NCOs will start off with the trusty bolt pistol I guess. Just the same, las pistol and stabbin implement is the same points wise so I hope that makes is into some eratta.

I wouldn't underestimate a blobbed platoon of 30 guys with a 3 commissars and sergeants with power weapons. Lets see on the charge 24 attacks with power weapons that have like 26 ablative wounds and not on the charge its still 18 PW attacks. While I don't think its good in small games in larger games I could see it being quite effective as a tarpit.

That blob costs 200+ pts for the dudes, 150+ pts for the Commissars.

I can take GKTs for those kinds of points!

thankfully, I had converted some metal tallarn sgt models to las pistol/ccw for CC vets previously, so I am sitting pretty good with sgt models.

And, thankfully, the old box set tallarns came with meltaguns.

I still wish they made a frackin metal tallarn with flamer though. Bastids never did that as far as I can determine.

Ashaman wrote:Ok, now as to the Ogryns, I think that it's ridiculus that the preist shouldn't effect them. They may be stupid, but their not that stupid. They are a lot smarter than any dog or horse, and both of the above will often follow their owners until death. If any thing they should be eisier to inspire, and create fanatics of, than a guardsmen.

and also i think it's rediculus that a sergeant should be able to take a plasma pistol or a sword, or even a bolter. Power Swords are supposed to be very, very rare artifacts. Most Astartes Sergeants don't have them , so why should a gaurdsmen be able to? and how would he even get a hold of somthing like that? These weapons are supposed to be the Imperiums absolute finest, so how would some riff-raff sergeant have acess to them. Hell, realisticaly, hardly any of the colonels, and captains should have them (but then again it's a space game with, lol, Double barreled turbo laser destructers. so how realistic can you expect it to be)

I still think that the Storm Troopers should be able to have the melta bombs though

Umm, you are comparing apples to oranges. Have you seen the size of a space marine power weapon? The thing is massive. Think william wallace claymore x2 for a normal sword. A space marine would not be able to use a human sized power weapon, unless he wanted a "power knife" Yes, power weapons are rare, but I am willing to bet that for ever one space marine sized power sword there are hundreds of thousands to millions of normal human sized ones.

Guys I think this thread is about IG Sergeants...not Ogryns/Preists...

I also agree to the fact that Sergeants should carry long arms. I honestly don't see why they wouldn't be able to. I was using the one bald Catachan Lt. with a Boltgun as sergeants for a while, now that can't work unfortunately.

Can someones acknowledge the damn Sergeant with Bolter on page 79; it's just mean....

Veteran Sarges can carry bolters, cant they? Bearing in mind that I read the word "Bolter" anywhere other than on a tank (in the IG codex) and instantly ignore that option... hate them on guard. HATEHATEHATE.

Nobody_Holme wrote:Veteran Sarges can carry bolters, cant they? Bearing in mind that I read the word "Bolter" anywhere other than on a tank (in the IG codex) and instantly ignore that option... hate them on guard. HATEHATEHATE.

Nope, the only two-handed weapon a veteran squad sarge can take is a shotgun.

Bluh.

And you lose your pistol or CCW for that...

I think it might have had something to do with bringing the Imperial Guard codex into line with other codecii. Most Marine squad leaders have a pistol and CCW as their default gear, and the basic Tactical squad leaders cannot carry a Boltgun.

The one thing I do wish the basic Guard squad leaders could get is a Powerfist. Indeed, a meltabomb helps, but what about that Daemon Prince that just charged into my squad? I guess I'll just have to let them die, or send a Priest or Commissar in to save the day.

Van Grothe wrote:I think it might have had something to do with bringing the Imperial Guard codex into line with other codecii. Most Marine squad leaders have a pistol and CCW as their default gear, and the basic Tactical squad leaders cannot carry a Boltgun.

... anymore.

Before the Codex updates, SM Sergeants could be armed with Bolter.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Van Grothe wrote:I think it might have had something to do with bringing the Imperial Guard codex into line with other codecii. Most Marine squad leaders have a pistol and CCW as their default gear, and the basic Tactical squad leaders cannot carry a Boltgun.

... anymore.

Before the Codex updates, SM Sergeants could be armed with Bolter.

Wait, they updated the SM codex to not allow Boltgun Sarge's?

Apparently...

Not in my copy.

RustyKnight wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Van Grothe wrote:I think it might have had something to do with bringing the Imperial Guard codex into line with other codecii. Most Marine squad leaders have a pistol and CCW as their default gear, and the basic Tactical squad leaders cannot carry a Boltgun.

... anymore.

Before the Codex updates, SM Sergeants could be armed with Bolter.

Wait, they updated the SM codex to not allow Boltgun Sarge's?

In my codex (page 134), the sergeant in the tactical squad has a bolt pistol AND a boltgun, as does every member of his squad unless they choose to upgrade.

The same is true of the sergeant for the Devastator squad. He has both weapons.

What is odd is that no one in the tactical squad has CCWs, so the bolt pistol is pretty much useless.

B&BP allows a model to move, shoot the Pistol (once), and Assault.

Van Grothe wrote:I think it might have had something to do with bringing the Imperial Guard codex into line with other codecii. Most Marine squad leaders have a pistol and CCW as their default gear, and the basic Tactical squad leaders cannot carry a Boltgun.

The one thing I do wish the basic Guard squad leaders could get is a Powerfist. Indeed, a meltabomb helps, but what about that Daemon Prince that just charged into my squad? I guess I'll just have to let them die, or send a Priest or Commissar in to save the day.

You expect a line squad to be standing at the end of an assault with a daemon prince involved? You over-estimate the average guardsman. (well, a 30-man blob might just beat past his saves, if they can even hurt him)

One power fist that gets one round of attacks in a match is not worth the cost.

JohnHwangDD wrote:B&BP allows a model to move, shoot the Pistol (once), and Assault.

John, that's a good point and one that I had forgotten about, since my IG never assault.

Nobody_Holme wrote:

Van Grothe wrote:I think it might have had something to do with bringing the Imperial Guard codex into line with other codecii. Most Marine squad leaders have a pistol and CCW as their default gear, and the basic Tactical squad leaders cannot carry a Boltgun.

The one thing I do wish the basic Guard squad leaders could get is a Powerfist. Indeed, a meltabomb helps, but what about that Daemon Prince that just charged into my squad? I guess I'll just have to let them die, or send a Priest or Commissar in to save the day.

You expect a line squad to be standing at the end of an assault with a daemon prince involved? You over-estimate the average guardsman. (well, a 30-man blob might just beat past his saves, if they can even hurt him)

One power fist that gets one round of attacks in a match is not worth the cost.

I have to agree with Nobody. If a daemon prince shows up, I'll give up a squad if he catches me in assault. I don't want it to last more than one turn because I want to shoot - a lot - at the prince in my following turn. Using a tarpit is not a viable tactic for me since I play a veteran mechanized company. None of my units is large enough to tarpit.

I can't see using powerfists for sergeants even for veteran ones. As for the priest and commissar, I like the minis and the fluff but will keep them on my shelf unless I play Apoc. If I had to field one of them in a normal 40K game, I'd go with the commissar because he's not an IC. Given his 45 point cost (with power weapon) for WS4, S3, A2, I'd rather not take him at all.

For this codex, my lasgun and boltgun sergeants go on the shelf; giving way to new veteran sergeants with shotguns. I can still use all of my models for special scenario and skirmish games where we make up special rules. Those games tend to be more fun than standard 40K anyway, and we can bring back old favorites like Deathwatch and plague zombies.

Aaaaaand I just noticed... Lots of the Tableaus in GW website articles include the two bolter sarges.
They're 5th ed guard articles, you dirty sods. *shakes fist*

Van Grothe wrote:
The one thing I do wish the basic Guard squad leaders could get is a Powerfist. Indeed, a meltabomb helps, but what about that Daemon Prince that just charged into my squad? I guess I'll just have to let them die, or send a Priest or Commissar in to save the day.

In any situation; Daemon Price + Guardsmen=Fresh Meat. Fluff wise even a PW is stretching it, a PF would just be over the top

colonel584 wrote:...And then GW goes and taunts the players who have already converted their Sergeants to carry bolters for 4th Ed codex by having a "Sergeant with Boltgun" on pg79 of the new Codex...wth?!

Another note on that, I hate how it also pictures conscripts (with the obvious white stripes) with flamers! I am rather disappointed, for I have made a sergeant holding a lasgun in one hand and ordering his troops with the other. I think it turned out very well, but it turns out now he has to use a laspistol and chainsword.