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Does anyone else think that IG Sergeants are now given the options to so much gear they wouldn't have and should ever use?!

-I mean Meltabombs, Power Weapons and Plasma Pistols...come-on!!
All this and they can't even get a god-damn lasgun, the mose widely produced gun in the universe and the standard weapon for all the troops that they're leading. And then GW goes and taunts the players who have already converted their Sergeants to carry bolters for 4th Ed codex by having a "Sergeant with Boltgun" on pg79 of the new Codex...wth?!

I can see that the Sergeants can use all of that equipment. Either as trophies from the battle field or requested from the Armoury. Becoming a Sergean must have some perks, right?

The OC-D

I run Plasma Pistols at least.

Oh noes, my 20 point model rolled a 1 for gets hot...

Ditto Meltabombs on a squad you place ready to death-or-glory any tank shocks.
Not saying its good, but they could well do. Guard are majorly fluffy this time around. All we need are salamanders, and it'll all be fine.

I mean as if they'd trust a sergeant with a plasma pistol or power weapon. And why would they give an infantry sergeant meltabombs when their elite stormtrooper counterparts can't get them?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There are some noticable parts of the guard list where you're like "Why WOULDN'T they get these" or "Why WOULD they get these"

I don't mind having the extra options, end of the day if you're gonna beef up your sergeant then woe to you, but for the odd squad with a purpose in mind like death or glory go for it. If someones really dumb enough to give all their sergeants power weapons and plasma pistols they'll just end up being shown the business end of a bolter.

However, it does pee me off that they can't have a standard lasgun! I tend to give them anyway and check my opponents doesn't mind before hand. I mean come on GW, they're still expendable, why no lasguns?!!!! Vet sergs/squads are maybe arguably fluff wise too good to allow them to fight with a laser pointer but a normal run of the mill guy?

You seem to think that all Sergeants are idiots. They are the tactical leader of a squad and if they deem it necessary to have a specialsied bit of kit like a plasma pistol or they want use their Grandaddy's power sword I think they should be able to. However, i agree that Sergeants should be able to have Lasguns and that Stormies should be able to have Melta bombs.

The OC-D

e.g. spec weapons teams cf HWTs re grenades

I don't understand.

The OC-D

I think he is refering to the fact that heavy weapon teams have grenades and special weapon teams dont
Silly Cruddace

Oh, I see. But I don't see the relevance.

The OC-D

Its to say that the IG codex is full of nonsensical descriptions and arbitary rules.
I mean the priests ability not affecting Ogryns....WTF?

Ogryns are classified as not intelligent enough to understand the foundings of the Priests speech. I think it should affect Bone 'Eads though...
It's not nonsense. In a few places it's quite realistic.
Yani, I can argue this in person with you later...


The OC-D

theocd wrote:I don't understand.

The OC-D

cf=compared with
re=regarding/in reply to
(uni notetaking getting into my forum shorthand)

What I meant was the HWTs start with Frag Grenades (like every other guardsmen) and can take Krak grenades whilst Special Weapons Teams (who are meant to be like combat engineers or sniper teams) don't start with frag and don't have the option of taking anything

And you're right about the reason for the Ogryn's inability to benefit from the Preist's antics.

He'd probably shout his stuff regarding the Emperor and Death and glory etc and the Ogryns would just look at each other and shrug

The reason that the Sergeants are not armed with lasguns is simple: they are supposed to be leading, not shooting. Modern day armies often do not issue their officers anything more than a pistol, maybe a carbine of some sort. Although a Sergeant is not an officer the concept is still the same, without the lasgun the Sergeant has a greater ability to lead his men more effectively.

Manstein wrote:The reason that the Sergeants are not armed with lasguns is simple: they are supposed to be leading, not shooting. Modern day armies often do not issue their officers anything more than a pistol, maybe a carbine of some sort. Although a Sergeant is not an officer the concept is still the same, without the lasgun the Sergeant has a greater ability to lead his men more effectively.

Generally, the enlisted (NCOs included) are supposed to do the work/fighting, hence why enlisted ranks are worn on the arms.
Officers wear their ranks on the shoulders because they "bear the burden" of leadership. Officers generally do not fight, but fighting commonly becomes a necessity for company level officers and below.
I don't think this was GW's idea when they made the Codex, since CCs and PCs can take two handed bolters.

I think it is just a horrible oversight (Or a more less likely explanation that they honestly thought an extra flashlight shot for FRFSRF actually matters).

Now, non-enlisted gent speaking here, but wouldn't it make sense to keep your status hidden from the enemy? Why make yourself stand out to sharpshooters and such by waving a sword and brandishing a pistol? Call me crazy, but I'd rather a large automatic weapon if I was going to lead a unit into a gun-fight, than a pea-shooter.

Reminds me of the ole' British Officer in WWI, walking into the wire with a revolver and swagger stick.
Regards

Ok, now as to the Ogryns, I think that it's ridiculus that the preist shouldn't effect them. They may be stupid, but their not that stupid. They are a lot smarter than any dog or horse, and both of the above will often follow their owners until death. If any thing they should be eisier to inspire, and create fanatics of, than a guardsmen.

and also i think it's rediculus that a sergeant should be able to take a plasma pistol or a sword, or even a bolter. Power Swords are supposed to be very, very rare artifacts. Most Astartes Sergeants don't have them , so why should a gaurdsmen be able to? and how would he even get a hold of somthing like that? These weapons are supposed to be the Imperiums absolute finest, so how would some riff-raff sergeant have acess to them. Hell, realisticaly, hardly any of the colonels, and captains should have them (but then again it's a space game with, lol, Double barreled turbo laser destructers. so how realistic can you expect it to be)

I still think that the Storm Troopers should be able to have the melta bombs though

Not that stupid? "A select few Ogryns, those that show a glimmer of initiative or intelligence, become prime candidates ofr augmetic cranial surgery to boost their brain-power to the point where they can understand basic strategy and tactics, equivalent to that of an eight-year-old human child"

So the smart ones who are given brain surgery to make them smarter have the intelligence of an eight-year-old. What does that mean the normal soldiers are? in their first trimester?!

Why don't you try finding an eight-year-old and yell "For the Emperor!!!" and "Advance Soldiers!!!" to them out of nowhere and see if they understand...

If the Space Marine in Final Liberation is anything to go by, the Emperor's finest aren't much brighter...

There is no reason not to arm NCOs with long arms. IIRC, the USMC recently mandated that NCOs below a certain rank carry carbines (nobody really uses a rifle anymore) instead of just a pistol, and that may have included junior officers as well.

The rule is either an oversight, a ploy to get people to buy new models, or an overreaction to fear of FRF!SRF! abuse.

I can hardly imagine how an an extra Lasgun shoter can make any difference whatsoever. Is GW imagining that somebody is going to forego the Special Weapon to get that extra Lasgun shot?

IMO, FRF is quite possibly the most underwhelming addition / change to the IG. I look at the amount of rules text it takes and think: "for *this* lame-ass Sharpshooters replacement, we gave up the Doctrines for Drop Troops, Light Infantry, Cameoline and Carapace?"

Ugh.

I dont see why you cant jsut replace your sargents las pistol and closecobat wepon for a lasgun. as most rules say that pistol+close combat is equel in points to a lasgun. i think interpriting the rules is an important part of game play.

imperialist dog wrote:I dont see why you cant jsut replace your sargents las pistol and closecobat wepon for a lasgun. as most rules say that pistol+close combat is equel in points to a lasgun.

As someone with fixed-pose metal model sergeants armed with lasguns, that is exactly what I'm going to be doing.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

imperialist dog wrote:I dont see why you cant jsut replace your sargents las pistol and closecobat wepon for a lasgun. as most rules say that pistol+close combat is equel in points to a lasgun.

As someone with fixed-pose metal model sergeants armed with lasguns, that is exactly what I'm going to be doing.

After being in the joyous YMTC fight about the Valkyrie and wther or not it can deploy troops because the model uses the existing stand vs. the stadnard skimmer stand I am sure my chances of running into TFG at a tourney on this issue would be 100%.

1. Its stupid
2.

The rule is either an oversight, a ploy to get people to buy new models, or an overreaction to fear of FRF!SRF! abuse.

I'd proffer a ploy.
3. I play Valhallans. I have some pistol sergeants (with hand flamers yea baby that old) but I play them as plasma pistol boys on the rare times they get such. But I don't have 15 sergeant guys to replace my standard troopers for sergeants. they don't make them any more, and I wouldn't spend the $12 or whatever to replace each.

Bob the Hobo wrote:I think it is just a horrible oversight

I think Arby just assumed everyone took Laspistol/CCW and/or didn't read the previous Codex. I mean, he did change every rule in the Codex aside from weapon stats - virtually every rule in that book is different to the previous edition in some way - it makes sense that he sometimes just changes things without much thought going into it,

Frazzled wrote:

JohnHwangDD wrote:

imperialist dog wrote:I dont see why you cant jsut replace your sargents las pistol and closecobat wepon for a lasgun. as most rules say that pistol+close combat is equel in points to a lasgun.

As someone with fixed-pose metal model sergeants armed with lasguns, that is exactly what I'm going to be doing.

After being in the joyous YMTC fight about the Valkyrie and wther or not it can deploy troops because the model uses the existing stand vs. the stadnard skimmer stand I am sure my chances of running into TFG at a tourney on this issue would be 100%.

Interestingly, as I no longer do the tournament thing, my chances of running into this are roughly zero. Plus, my gaming buddies have Mordians, ASL, and other 2E IG models, so them being TFG over it, hurts them just as bad.

Frazzled wrote: I play Valhallans. I have some pistol sergeants (with hand flamers yea baby that old) but I play them as plasma pistol boys on the rare times they get such. But I don't have 15 sergeant guys to replace my standard troopers for sergeants. they don't make them any more, and I wouldn't spend the $12 or whatever to replace each.

Last time I looked, metal IG sergeants would "only" be something like $7 each.

But then, that was pre-6/1.

I am afraid to see what GW might have done to "adjust" their prices.

On the subject of Ogryns, It's not nessisaraly that the Ogryns have no idea what the priests are saying. They might beleave absolutly in the divine emperor (many children have very strong faith), however, With out a real ability to keep up with the priests words it doesn't modivate them to fight any harder then the would anyway (as most of them tend to enjoy beating things up)

And yes, I don't know why lasguns are impossable for basic sgts to get. Although all of my old metal IG sgts have pistols and swords, so it wasn't really an issue with me. For someone fighting me, I wouldn't have any problem with lasguns or bolters showing up on sgts. It's not like it's a game braker.

$8 for the Valhallan sergeant.

No lasguns shotguns or boltguns for sergeants was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. A stupid rule in a book chock full of stupid rules.

I can see the use of giving the Serg. a melta bomb. Grav-Chute in, then bomb an annoying vehicle

MC