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Chapterhouse wrote:It would be very hard legally for them to stop anyone from labeling something "Rhino tank door and armored panels". Rhino and tank is public domain.

Actually, GW would be able to challenge you here, because the "Rhino" is trademarked for their particular tank, which you are designing for.

OTOH, If you were to sell "round tank doors", and then describe them as compatible with the GW Rhino, that would be a different (and more defensible) situation.
____

BrassScorpion wrote: However, if you manufacture something that copies GW IP and try to sell it, you will be sued.

Exactly, and rightfully so. If you copy GW's SM Beakie helmets, for example, they will slam the lid on you.

OTOH, if you make completely different helmets that don't borrow from the GW established designs, but happen to be compatible in size and socket, then no problem. That's how maxmini.eu works.

Im in a huge tournament at HobbyTown USA Dallas on the 13th of June Salamanders of course

For your concept art are you looking for mechanical bits, freehand portraits, assorted "symbols", or any and all of the above?

Any and all the above Mostly it has to be marketable to the masses, so custom chapter icons that arent able to be used by larger chapters or any chapters are hard to justify creation cost for.

Well I think it would be pretty damn hard to copyright a:
fluer de lys (Sisters)
Iron Cross/ Cross pattee / Maltese cross (black templars)
A cross Fitchy (the vertical part of a cross replaced with/stylised as a sword)
Something to do with Fists or a gauntlet (Crimson fists etc) - possibly crossed gauntlets would be unique enough.
a Skull of some variety
Greek letters (Omega)
laurel wreaths


all of those are fairly generic items.

Even a double-headed eagle is a very common symbol, particularly in eastern european heraldry. As long as you did the wings suitably organic.

hammerofulric wrote:Will GW allow a third party to make parts deisgned for their kits? Kowing their legal department, you won't be able to market them that way.

It's totally legal, providing the parts are entirely designed by the new company (not moulded off GW originals) and don't incorporate any GW copyright elements.

GW would be ill-advised to bring an action which couldn't succeed.

These are great

For some reason on your website I couldn't find the Salamander rhino doors, just these? I probably just missed it

Our mold died last week, we are reworking it. Shoudl be available this week. Im hesitant to put them up still, if you want to email me an order go ahead

sales@chapterhousestudios.com

It is quit common to us other companies upgrade kits for historical model tanks. These kits usually consists of tracks or more finely detailed parts then the original model has. This practises exists for more than 10 years, so Chapterhouses operation can legally work along that route I presume.

Chapterhouse wrote:Judges are known for throwing out cases of frivilouse lawsuits and reward fees to the defendants.

Let us worry about the legality of the items (we have a slush fund for it), and a Cease and Desist is basically a notice and nothing else. We respect GWs legal rights and try to work with those rights in mind. If GW wants to throw its legal weight around, they can try to do so, but they havent, so lets not all be defeatist.

Luckily Dakka isnt owned by GW like Warseer and BnC (they delete any fan post about our site, chapterhouse studios is a bad word on those forums).

So we will continue to ask your guys opinions and get ideas and post our new stuff here and support the forum as much as we can.

We had to design the doors in 3DS Max, with precise measurements like the regular Rhino. We then had them prototyped in plastic and now we sell the regular undecorated doors as well as use them as our sculpting templates for future Rhino accessory Kits.

In a US court, yeah.

But GW's a UK company, thus you'd be taken to court there.

And "owned by GW"?
Really?
Like GW is in some massive conspiracy to keep you down?

Ridiculous. The reason they probably delete any post about your site is the fact that threads like this always lead to questions about how to cast up resin models, or the legality of casting up resin "conversion" kits of GW models, etc.

Chapterhouse wrote:

All very good points guys, Ive been trying to get my sculptor to do some icons with small pins on the back so all you have to do is drill small hole of cut the pins off and glue it.

That would be great!

I really could use some "Omega" symbols for vehicles and whatnot...

Wow, usually people are bitching that they are sick off the "Omega" marines.

GW has a very large corporate presence in Maryland I beleive, so it would be US courts.

Kanluwen wrote:

Chapterhouse wrote:Judges are known for throwing out cases of frivilouse lawsuits and reward fees to the defendants.

Let us worry about the legality of the items (we have a slush fund for it), and a Cease and Desist is basically a notice and nothing else. We respect GWs legal rights and try to work with those rights in mind. If GW wants to throw its legal weight around, they can try to do so, but they havent, so lets not all be defeatist.

Luckily Dakka isnt owned by GW like Warseer and BnC (they delete any fan post about our site, chapterhouse studios is a bad word on those forums).

So we will continue to ask your guys opinions and get ideas and post our new stuff here and support the forum as much as we can.

We had to design the doors in 3DS Max, with precise measurements like the regular Rhino. We then had them prototyped in plastic and now we sell the regular undecorated doors as well as use them as our sculpting templates for future Rhino accessory Kits.

In a US court, yeah.

But GW's a UK company, thus you'd be taken to court there.

And "owned by GW"?
Really?
Like GW is in some massive conspiracy to keep you down?

Ridiculous. The reason they probably delete any post about your site is the fact that threads like this always lead to questions about how to cast up resin models, or the legality of casting up resin "conversion" kits of GW models, etc.

Apologist wrote:I'd really like to see some Rhino bits that modify the Rhino to look a little like the old Rhino – i.e. round doors on the sides, and a front plate like this:

You'd have to make some concessions to the new design, but I think a nod to the old one would be cool.

Heck yeah I second this! The round side doors could be put on a flat side panel that plugs into the new style door slot, and would be an excellent item to cash in on the preheresy crowd!

I was always under the impression noone liked the old rhinos... simple enough job to do, have to look into that.

We delete or edit posts asking about casting or selling copies of GW kits.

The Rhino door isn't a copy. It's an accessory made to a a specification of size and it's perfectly legal.

Even the items with GW imagery on may not be copyright protected because so many of GW's images are copied from history there is no IP in them.

Chapterhouse wrote:GW has a very large corporate presence in Maryland I beleive, so it would be US courts.

Except their corporate headquarters is in the UK.
Do you really think they'd file a suit against you in an area where they wouldn't have a much higher chance of winning?

Kanluwen wrote:

Chapterhouse wrote:GW has a very large corporate presence in Maryland I beleive, so it would be US courts.

Except their corporate headquarters is in the UK.
Do you really think they'd file a suit against you in an area where they wouldn't have a much higher chance of winning?

you clearly haven't been following GW IP shennigans for very long, THey have clsoed down companies in the US and even in russia (god knows how considerrin geven Microsoft have had problems there) and sued small buisness.

its a very very thin line and i woudl suggest that whoever is runnign this group of enthusiasts to have a serious look at GWs IP policies on their website or even consutl someone you know with legal experience.

GW may never do them but they did art in some books, does that make it original or derivative is the question.

In reality it depends on how the patent is written. I know that Chapterhouse has already set down for legal advice for they are fine with what they are doing. I have bought lots of product from them and have been very happy with the end results as well as the level of customer service. Stop arguing the legals and let others worrry about it hehe. Just get them to make what you need heheh.

Sgt.Roadkill wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Chapterhouse wrote:GW has a very large corporate presence in Maryland I beleive, so it would be US courts.

Except their corporate headquarters is in the UK.
Do you really think they'd file a suit against you in an area where they wouldn't have a much higher chance of winning?

you clearly haven't been following GW IP shennigans for very long, THey have clsoed down companies in the US and even in russia (god knows how considerrin geven Microsoft have had problems there) and sued small buisness.

its a very very thin line and i woudl suggest that whoever is runnign this group of enthusiasts to have a serious look at GWs IP policies on their website or even consutl someone you know with legal experience.

Been there doing that, again, we are not amateurs. You can also countersuit a company and make them come to your jurisdiction.

Why are there so many wannabe GW attorneys out there? Let us worry about it please.

Sgt.Roadkill wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Chapterhouse wrote:GW has a very large corporate presence in Maryland I beleive, so it would be US courts.

Except their corporate headquarters is in the UK.
Do you really think they'd file a suit against you in an area where they wouldn't have a much higher chance of winning?

you clearly haven't been following GW IP shennigans for very long, THey have clsoed down companies in the US and even in russia (god knows how considerrin geven Microsoft have had problems there) and sued small buisness.

its a very very thin line and i woudl suggest that whoever is runnign this group of enthusiasts to have a serious look at GWs IP policies on their website or even consutl someone you know with legal experience.

Newsflash:
They can bring companies from anywhere in the world to court in the UK.
Just like if I were to level a suit against a multinational corporation in the US, they'd be subject to US laws.

Also, spellchecker. Use it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Chapterhouse wrote:
Been there doing that, again, we are not amateurs. You can also countersuit a company and make them come to your jurisdiction.

Why are there so many wannabe GW attorneys out there? Let us worry about it please.

Yeah, I'd love to see how well that countersuit works out for you.

Look, GW does some stupid things in regards to its IP. There's no doubt whatsoever about that.
But it's really stupid to act like you're somehow in the right here. How is this any different to the guys who were making Titans and selling them? Or someone putting up, and charging, a mod for Half-Life 2?

You're making profit, unlicensed, off another company's intellectual property.

The companies that make photo-etched detail kits, etc for Tamiya, Dragon kits?
They have a way around it. Tamiya or Dragon don't own the Tiger or the M4 Sherman, or any other thing they've produced to be honest.

BrookM wrote:Wow, usually people are bitching that they are sick off the "Omega" marines.

I've got a homebrew "Omega Legion" army I'm building.

So by "Omega" symbol, I mean just that.

Not an upside down "Omega" either!

Note: None of the following is legal advice for any specific or general matter.

I'd be curious to see how exactly GW could sue a US entity in the UK courts for actions that take place in the US. I'm not an expert in international law, but I would imagine that even if the UK and US have a treaty that governs mutual respect for copyrights, it would still take place in the courts where the breach takes place. Treaties are high law in the US, but the constitution still outranks it, and it requires that any criminal trials take place in the State and district where the crime took place. In terms of civil matters, Federal and at least Ohio (I don't' know other states civil procedure) requires that venue be in either the home district (or county for ohio) of the Defendant or where the alleged events take place.

The idea that a UK court would have jurisdiction over a person not even in the UK seems very unlikely to me, outside of a treaty that would probably be unconstitutional due to violations of Due Process.

I'm sure Chapterhouse has spoken to a lawyer on the matter, and hopefully also incorporated somehow, so that even if GW were to win there would be no assets to touch.

LLC all the way...

Kanluwen,

You have something against someone making a HONEST buck? We arent recasting, if you were to sculpt from hand, put hours upon hours into something and then sell it, and say hey, this works well with soandso mini, who is to say that is illegal.

Hey if you want to work for GW, get a law degree and go work for them, please dont rain on our parade and say you cant do this you cant do that. Where is your legal training to say that? What hard evidence is there we are doing anything against copyright?

Please stop telling companies what they can and cant do.

I guess aftermarket car part companies should also stop making Mustang headlights that "fit on mustangs" as well!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mods, can we make sure to keep this thread on topic and no more amateur lawyers giving bad legal advice?

If people are yelling over a legal problem. But chapterhouse is up to their own legal issues - and leave it as that.

Hell, I dont care - as its not even my responsibility.

As a consumer = if its good, i'll buy it ;P.

But if joo really are scared...
One solution in one word -

CHINA

oops.

lol..

As a quick aside, if you want a general rule for determining how little a person actually knows about a field of law, it's the inverse of their certainty about any given fact pattern from very limited facts. Keep in mind that actual lawyers are prohibited by most state bars from casually giving legal advice without making it very clear that they're not taking a client and that it's not really advice on the issue but a general statement of the law.

Any actual lawyer, given a hypothetical situation and asked for an answer, will almost always answer with "it depends."

Chapterhouse wrote:LLC all the way...

Kanluwen,

You have something against someone making a HONEST buck? We arent recasting, if you were to sculpt from hand, put hours upon hours into something and then sell it, and say hey, this works well with soandso mini, who is to say that is illegal.

HONEST buck?
You took someone else's IP and made doors for it.
They don't even look noticeably different from the standard stuff.
Wow, quite the hard work!

And as to the "this works well with soandso miniatures", sculpted from hand for your OWN piece of work?
Completely different story.
That's not what you're doing though. You're selling modified parts for a Rhino.

Hey if you want to work for GW, get a law degree and go work for them, please dont rain on our parade and say you cant do this you cant do that. Where is your legal training to say that? What hard evidence is there we are doing anything against copyright?

Actually, I am working on a law enforcement degree as it stands, and then moving on to major in forensics afterwards.

And where's your common sense that what you're doing is expressly against Games Workshop's idea of copyright, in the fact that EVERY company outside of Armorcast and Forge World that have done things like this have been shut down?

Please stop telling companies what they can and cant do.

I guess aftermarket car part companies should also stop making Mustang headlights that "fit on mustangs" as well!

Aftermarket car part companies huh. Now you're reaching pretty hard for justification for what you're doing.
Do you know how many different cars various styles of headlights can fit?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mods, can we make sure to keep this thread on topic and no more amateur lawyers giving bad legal advice?

Awww, amateur lawyers giving bad legal advice?
How cute.

Sigh, theres always one poster like this around..

Oh yes, you are correct, we got ahold of GWs 3d files and remastered them, I forgot that they own the rights to a rectangle of those dimensions! There go our plans for new hatches that fit on the Rhino as well! Kanluwen, what is your purpose of posting on this thread, besides trash talking our efforts? Do you have anything constructive to add besides your unsolicited legal advice?

Several alerts have already been received for this thread.

Please keep this thread on topic.

Thanks!

Kanluwen wrote:[
Actually, I am working on a law enforcement degree as it stands, and then moving on to major in forensics afterwards.

And I'm sure that's wonderful, but we're dealing with international IP law, something that even most lawyers don't know much about. If you actually knew what you were talking about, you would be citing cases, statutes, etc.

Aftermarket car part companies huh. Now you're reaching pretty hard for justification for what you're doing.
Do you know how many different cars various styles of headlights can fit?

Actually, what he's doing is showing how the law was applied to a similar, but slightly distinct set of facts. That is, btw, a lot of what lawyers do with their time.

Awww, amateur lawyers giving bad legal advice?
How cute.

Well, you're not a lawyer, and your legal advice is, at best, overly alarmist. It's not a horribly off base accusation, I'm afraid.