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5th ed all about mech as far I see it I have a full mech SMarmy it rolls over my friends it not really that fun.

Capture and Control only has draw written on it if you're going to play Turtlehammer.

I've had one draw ever, and it was in a killpoint mission against tyranids. I play to win, not to draw.

I tend to either crush my opponent or get fully wiped off the board. that's just how it goes.

With so many fast vehicles in everybody's army its simply too easy to contest an objective. If only troop can hold the, only troops should be able to take or contest them. I've had a ton of draws since 5th came out.

The thing I find frustrating is the whole Space marine army with 3 guys left ( 1 scout, and 2 tac marines from seprate squads) "drawing" with the guy who has two good size units of plague marines in rhinos left, 4 termies, and a lord.

The space marine player actually almost won that one; but the chaos player managed to get a unit of plague marines in to contest the objective the scout was on. The game ended the first chance it got, not like the chaos player wasn't aggressive enough . There should not be an option really in the game when 900 points of troops in one army and the other army has 45 points of stuff left and it should be called a draw. That's not a draw that's a bloody slaughter.

Even using kill points the marine player is most likely losing only by 1. the primary cause for this is Cover-saves, I mean how do you dig scouts out of a bunker with a 2+ cover save in 4 or less turns ( the answer is you can't really, at least not without just focus fireing on them and ignoring the rest of the army with them).

So Yes I think Draws are way more common and way too common in 5Th edition. 5th edition allows low skill players and people with less than stellar lists to not get their feelings hurt because they can get a draw with almost no effort. The problem is this keeps them from getting better. I mean they are going to go away say man I'm doing fine the last 4 games i have played have been draws, that means I'm not losing. We all know that's not really the case though, whats really going on is the guy getting 5 turns of utter beat down and his 2 remaining guys are contesting the objectives because of the new cover combined with 3+ saves means they always have a save since no one puts objectives in the bloody open.

now please don't get me wrong, I'm not bitter, the above examples are actually a couple of my good friends. The problem is the guy running chaos is just frustrated and asking me what he is doing wrong, the guy running the marines is going I'm doing fine I have played ( literally) 27 games of 40k and only lost 2 of them and drawn 25. They need to do something bring back VP, or make KP count for something in all missions and give partial KP for half dead squads. Just something so a near full wipe after 4 or 5 turns shows for what it really is and not this half assed draw event it is becoming.

I play IG, so 9 times out of 10 I table the guy on the other side, but it shouldn't be like that its either completely table the other guy or draw, someone needs to Lose, I don't mind if its me even but some one needs to lose. Im so sick of seeing 1 to 2 hours of game play end in a Draw when clearly one guy was out played.

The thing I find frustrating is the whole Space marine army with 3 guys left ( 1 scout, and 2 tac marines from seprate squads) "drawing" with the guy who has two good size units of plague marines in rhinos left, 4 termies, and a lord.

Not to single you out or offend, but this is a perfect example of why playing 5th edition with 4th edition tactics is fail.

4th edition games were all about who can kill the most.
5th edition games are entirely objective-based.

It is incorrect to say that the guy who has less units alive at the end of the game was out-played. In fact, if he was able to pull out a draw with far less units it probably means he used those units more efficiently than his opponent--it was probably the other guy who was out-played.

I had a game that illustrates my point at a recent tournament. I play a Vulkan list with 3 Tactical Squads in Drop Pods (my only Troops) and I was up against a Chaos list. It was a Capture and Control mission, so we set up the objectives in opposite corners.

I came down with my pods in his corner as close to the objective as possible, just to bait him into slaughtering my troops. He took the bait and started slaughtering me, and then I brought all of my reserves (except 1 pod) into that same corner. I systematically targeted his Troops and their transports while ignoring the more dangerous targets and he ultimately killed just about everything I had. And then I walked my final unit of reserves on to my objective on the other side of the board.

He may have "kicked my ass", but I eliminated all of his mobility and almost all of his Troops. Because of this, he was unable to fulfill the mission objective whereas I was able to steal the win with little effort.

Tell me--who was out-played?

Danny Internets wrote:
I came down with my pods in his corner as close to the objective as possible, just to bait him into slaughtering my troops. He took the bait and started slaughtering me, and then I brought all of my reserves (except 1 pod) into that same corner. I systematically targeted his Troops and their transports while ignoring the more dangerous targets and he ultimately killed just about everything I had. And then I walked my final unit of reserves on to my objective on the other side of the board.

He may have "kicked my ass", but I eliminated all of his mobility and almost all of his Troops. Because of this, he was unable to fulfill the mission objective whereas I was able to steal the win with little effort.

Tell me--who was out-played?

a Full unit of scoring troops comeing in from a well played reserve hold, is not the same as a single scout and two one man tac squads causing a draw. even if it was just a 5 man naked tac squad you still had more points on the table (in just that one tac squad) than the marine player in my example, also when you auto contest the other guys objective he dosen't have much choice but to try and kill the units to a man, and both drop pods since they can also contest. Hell one of my favored tactics right now when i play marines is to just drop empty pods on the other guys objective since they contest. basicly because one guy can contest you have to kill squads to the man.

I've seen a lot of draws, too! It seems like the missions are very objective-based, so just killing your opponent doesn't give you a win.

Personally, I like it . It seems to emphasize tactics over straight massacre, and I think it gives me a chance (with Tau). Unfortunately even with 4 full squads of firewarriors I keep running out of troops... I need more devilfish for the mobility and to contest objectives

a Full unit of scoring troops comeing in from a well played reserve hold, is not the same as a single scout and two one man tac squads causing a draw.

It depends entirely how those units were used.

Chaos armies are typically very small due to the high cost of units. Perhaps they were deployed on objectives far from the action in order to force the opponent to either split his limited forces (bad) or ignore them (worse). The tactic of divide and conquer works especially well against elite armies, particularly when they aren't designed with symmetry in mind.

even if it was just a 5 man naked tac squad you still had more points on the table (in just that one tac squad) than the marine player in my example

Therein lies the problem. The game is not about how many points are left on the table anymore. It's about the number of units left alive and how they are used. That single scout might not be deadly, but in 5th edition he will (or should) often be the highest priority target. Without a play-by-play of the entire match it's not possible to conclude that one player was outplayed by the other simply by what was left on the board.

From what I've seen locally most draws have been because one player or both were not aggressive enough.

For me, draws tend to occour for me when one of two things happen:

1. I roll some dice and things really don't go my way (like having the razorback immobilized 13 inches from an objective and the troops squad then rolling a 1 on their run roll to remain 4 inches away from the objective after they diembarked and moved.)

2. I turn a pretty big defeat into a draw (Killing all the other player's scoring units after mine have died, contesting both objectives in Capture & Control when 3/4th of his army is on my objective)

Otherwise I'll generally either win a game or lose a game (with the VAST majority of my losses comming in killpoints games)

One tactic that has won me a few games is to put the last remaining troop from a squad that got nearly gunned down into a land raider, it still scores.

We seemed to have a ton of draws when we first started playing 5e. I think a big part of it was simply getting out of the 4e VP mindset.

With 5e, you have to go for the win and be aggressive about it. You need to come up with a plan to win from the get-go and execute asap. You need to try to table your opponent. You won't win games by sitting back, being super-cautious and simply trying to win the "point war" of killing more total points than your opponent does(unless its Annihilation, but even then, its not about total points, its about number of units killed which takes a completely different strategy). You need to see how to best achieve a WIN, and then go do it without wasting any time.

If one side decides they are going to forgo their chances at a win and simply try to draw, it can sometimes be hard to stop those last turn contests but there are many tricks to prevent this and they can't get a draw if they don't have an army on the board!

I'm a player that came in with 5th edition, so I can't comment comparatively with regard to other editions.

However, in the games I've played (with my own WH army, and with the assortment of eldar, orks, bugs, and marines readily available in my circle of friends, plus a few FLGS games with tau and other marines players), I've been satisfied with the frequency of draws. They may come a *little* too often, but in our experience, draws tend to be nail-biter affairs wherein one player at a disadvantage sees the opportunity to *fight back to* a draw, turning what could have been, under other systems, a game not worth playing past turn 3 into an exciting conclusion.

I will concede, however, that C&C is a dog of an objective type, and should be incorporated into the other objective mission (as the minimum number of capture points). I'd much prefer the three options to be: annihilation, seize ground, and some variety of mission by which there is an attacker and a defender.