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You do realize that gauss weapons really dont do much against vehicles right?

Crash and burn? You need 10 shots to score 1 glancing hit on average.. Therefore to reliably score a 6 (immobilize) you need 60 shots..

Then you have to score a 5 or 6 to destroy its weapon.. and then a 4+ to destroy it...

Thats atleast 90 gauss shots on average for ONE vehicle lol..

Units inside transports are perfectly safe.. and most armies are mech now

A Scarab Swarm of 10 bases has 40 attacks when charging, with disruption fields thats going to be 4 glancing hits per round. As they can deep strike or turbo boost 24" its pretty easy to get them into assualt range.

Throw in shooting from 3 Destroyers thats 9 str 6 shots, or even shooting from 10 Warriors at closer ranges.

If need be Heavy Destroyers can pick most things off.

Thats plenty to take down most transports...

Failing that, teleporting a Destroyer Lord and a few Wraiths around the back of anything too nasty works pretty well.

Yeah, anyone who says pariahs are bad probably hasn't been manhandled by them before.

Are they a glass jaw unit? Yes.

Are they expensive? Yes.

Are they bad? No, not if you know how to use them.

I played in ard boyz the other day (with pariahs). Ghazzie and a big mek were both sent running and I chased them off of the board.

If I play an assault-geared army, I place them near my C'tan. When the enemy fails their ld test because of Manifestation and Soulless, and I charge them on my turn, the pain is felt. And pariahs are likely the best unit in the game when it comes to thunderhammer terminators with storm shields. Did I mention they make mincemeat out of soulgrinders?

Sure, they are hard to use unless you know how to use them. Then, they are awesome.

About the whole "gauss now sucks" thing:
20 shots is what an average squad shoots in the necron army. With the benefit of the doubt, that's two glances. That's at least one shaken result. Necron cc units are some of the best tank hunters in the game. Every single one is capable of taking down a leman russ in cc. If you shake the opponent's vehicles every turn, and advance on them, gauss will not have sucked, as your tomb spyders and pariahs (yeah, pariahs) will slice armor up.

If you don't believe me, look at my record in my sig. I play pariahs in every game, and the only vehicles I haven't yet destroyed have been eldar grav tanks with star engines.

For the benefit of the OP, check out the C'tan Support Group online. We await your entry to our gleaming ranks.

I still like the look on an opponent's face when a strength 2 scarab takes out their Land Raider

Your right though... str 5 + 2d6 warscythes make mincemeat of vehicles. Still shaken from the gauss blaster shots as they stroll across the battle field.

I spose the name is a perfect description... Pariah, Outcast, Undesirable.

Pariahs are a great unit.... in ANY list besides Necrons. They take too much away (Non-PO points) and add VERY little (A one trick pony 'combo'). The fact is that Pariahs are in the same boat the Assault terminators were in before the 3++ SS came along. They can't get anywhere fast enough to be effective, and will fall to massed small arms fire relatively easily. Being LD7 really isn't that bad, even in CC with Pariahs. MEQ's strike first, and PW's will kill Pariahs dead dead, easily enough. GEQ's can throw suicide squads at them all day and just shoot them to death on their own turn.

Even being forced to test on Ld 7 or fall back really isn't that bad.... the MOST COMMON roll on 2D6 is... 7.

Why are Phaira's are so bad there pretty good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Why are Phaira's are so bad there pretty good.

I listed the reasons in the post previous to yours....

Lordhat wrote:Pariahs are a great unit.... in ANY list besides Necrons. They take too much away (Non-PO points) and add VERY little (A one trick pony 'combo'). The fact is that Pariahs are in the same boat the Assault terminators were in before the 3++ SS came along. They can't get anywhere fast enough to be effective, and will fall to massed small arms fire relatively easily. Being LD7 really isn't that bad, even in CC with Pariahs. MEQ's strike first, and PW's will kill Pariahs dead dead, easily enough. GEQ's can throw suicide squads at them all day and just shoot them to death on their own turn.

Even being forced to test on Ld 7 or fall back really isn't that bad.... the MOST COMMON roll on 2D6 is... 7.

Given that you can take just 4 Pariahs, they don't take much away from phase out, much less than say a Monolith. Yet no one questions why you would take a Monolith... given that a lith only moves 6" a turn, and its main weapons only have a range of 12", their only use is to teleport one unit per round and a Veil of Darkness can do that for 200pts less.

Pariahs are a better shooting unit than Necron Warriors given that they have assualt weapons with higher strength and better AP...

Warscythes are among the best close combat weapons in the game, given that they ignore all saves including invulnerable saves and hit with two D6 against vehicles.

Yeah they're slow and don't have a transport option, but if you need a unit to hunt things down in close combat you'd take Wraiths. The role of Pariahs is to sit in the battle line shooting and then assault anything which gets into range or which assualts the warriors. Given that Necrons can out shoot most other forces, due to better weapons, higher BS, higher toughness, better armour saves and WBB, the main advantage other forces have is assualting them... given Necron Warriors have terrible Iniative 2.

With Pariahs you can either counter assualt or use the lower leadership to try to force a fall back, if combined with a Lord with a Nightmare Shroud. Ld 7 isn't that low but its better than Ld10. Add in the Psychic Abomination rule and if they're facing Psykers the fall back can be re-rolled, once for the Abomination rule and once when the Nightmare Shroud is activated.

Shield the Pariahs with a unit of Flayed Ones and you've a very very good counter assualting unit. And given that your opponent will need to pass a leadership test or will only hit the Flayed ones on a roll of 6, you're probably going to win any assualts you do have to face.

Now why wouldn't you take Pariahs again???

Lord_of_Nightmares wrote:

Lordhat wrote:Pariahs are a great unit.... in ANY list besides Necrons. They take too much away (Non-PO points) and add VERY little (A one trick pony 'combo'). The fact is that Pariahs are in the same boat the Assault terminators were in before the 3++ SS came along. They can't get anywhere fast enough to be effective, and will fall to massed small arms fire relatively easily. Being LD7 really isn't that bad, even in CC with Pariahs. MEQ's strike first, and PW's will kill Pariahs dead dead, easily enough. GEQ's can throw suicide squads at them all day and just shoot them to death on their own turn.

Even being forced to test on Ld 7 or fall back really isn't that bad.... the MOST COMMON roll on 2D6 is... 7.

Given that you can take just 4 Pariahs, they don't take much away from phase out, much less than say a Monolith. Yet no one questions why you would take a Monolith... given that a lith only moves 6" a turn, and its main weapons only have a range of 12", their only use is to teleport one unit per round and a Veil of Darkness can do that for 200pts less.

'Liths have more use than simply the Portal. They also are great for absorbing LARGE amounts of fire, and blocking LOS in a HUGE area. ( I used to make one unit of warriors just large enough to keep me from phasing out, and hide it behind my Lith all game). The psychological game is big too. People get fixated on the Monolith(s). The simply don't like seeing something they can't bring down reliably. And the option of a Str8 AP 3 pie plate isn't anything to be sneezed at.

Pariahs are a better shooting unit than Necron Warriors given that they have assualt weapons with higher strength and better AP...

Immortals shoot just as well as Pariahs for a 13% points savings, and are faster by dint of teleportation.

Now why wouldn't you take Pariahs again???

Because the cost of 4 Pariahs is 80% of the cost of a unit of 10 Warriors. Or Flayed Ones, which aren't very good either, but will still add to phase out, can be teleported and get WBB rolls. A unit of 10 Necron models not only adds 2 models to the PO number, it adds 8 models to the total your opponent has to kill permanently to phase your army. After WBB's are factored in, this has the same effect as adding 12 models to the number your opponent is required to kill, or 3 times the number of Pariahs you get for the same points as those Pariahs.

The fact is, Pariahs are too slow to be effective counter assault. The enemy can easily avoid them, ESPECIALLY a single unit of 4. All they have to have is a Transport, Jump Infantry, or Bikes, and the those Pariahs are reduced to overly expensive Immortals. A savvy player will never let those Pariahs anywhere near anything important.

The fact is, there are counter assault choices in the codex that are just plain better for the Necron army in every way.

I agree with Lordhat about the monolith. It is much better, point-for-point, than pariahs. But I also think that their ability is somewhat shortchanged by your examples. One point in particular has to do with phase out. One of the coolest thing about pariahs is that they don't count towards phase out. They are still immortals, with many useful abilities, but they make an opponent have to choose between taking them out or focusing on actual necrons. If they focus on necrons, then the pariahs can take center stage. Another way to think about this is that the less necrons you have, the easier it is to pick your battles and defend on your own terms.

Another important thing to remember is that while necrons may have good countercharge units, these units take up slots that can be used by much more efficient or better models. Imho, wraiths are one of these. They can deal with assaults quite well, but they remove a slot for destroyers. Tomb spyders are similar, as they take out either a monolith or heavy destroyer slot. In the elites section of the army, only immortals really shine. Flayed ones never really are as useful as their abilities might make them seem. Pariahs, on the other hand, give you the exact same punch as the immortals, plus the ability to possibly swing some important or close calls in your favor. Immortals, on the other hand, are not really close combat specialists.

Granted, play style is a big issue as well, and I do find that pariahs are only useful in games between 1600 and 2600 pts.

Used in the right way Pariahs can help devastate an opponent trying to assault your lines, and combined with a Lord with a few choice bits of wargear can disrupt an enemies forces quite well.

Yes they're slow, but if deployed and manouvered well this won't really matter. You have to make the enemy come to you. If you want to chase the enemy down you probably don't want to play with Necrons.

I like Pariahs and use them regularly to good effect, and if nothing else they give the Necron list a bit more character...

Well I speak as not a Necron player but as someone whom has player agianst them numerous times, you want and need a large number of warriors, and as you elite Immortals, with of course a lord. Phase out is the most annoying way you can loose, I can have 1 model left, and kill the 76th warrior out of a hundred, and then I win because your army decided to say "Screw you guys we're going home."

Nah... you'd kill number 76 only to find 74 and 75 had stood back up

Then a Pariah would chop your last one in half, skin him and give the Flayed Ones a new coat

Hey buddy,if your looking for a competitive necron army try this!

Lord + Orb
30 warriors
2 monoliths
7 destroyers

Warriors behind monoliths with lord

Destroyers on the flanks

GG.

A good tactic for Flayed Ones is to deepstrike behind (as said earlier) and at the same time infiltrate some in front, so the enemy is surrounded by Flayed Ones, and at 18pts (20 w/ disruption fields) they're relatively cheap as well!

I'd deepstrike in a scarab swarm as well and give them the disruption fields, so the scarabs could tie up any vehicles while the flayed ones tied up any troops...

This would give the rest of your army time to advance or teleport into shooting range...

Lord_of_Nightmares wrote:
Any transports are going to crash and burn quickly against Necrons with the glancing hits from any guass weapon. Even a strength 2 Scarab can take out a Land Raider with a disruption field.

Dude, there should be a law against jokes like that. I almost wet myself laughing. Seriously, necrons counting on glances from gauss weapons is a desperate tactic. I've played Necrons 3 times with my mech vets, and they've never glanced anything to death. Heavy destroyers have downed a vendetta and knocked a few weapons off things, but that's it.

As for scarabs, the turbo-boosting forward bit is fine until you run into an army with template weapons. They ignore the cover save and do double damage. Not much else in the necron list is really a good flamer target, so every flamer available is going to hit it them.

doubled wrote:Well I speak as not a Necron player but as someone whom has player agianst them numerous times, you want and need a large number of warriors, and as you elite Immortals, with of course a lord. Phase out is the most annoying way you can loose, I can have 1 model left, and kill the 76th warrior out of a hundred, and then I win because your army decided to say "Screw you guys we're going home."

Actually, the fewer warriors you have, the more competitive your list is. They are a nearly useless point sink.

Kitzz wrote:

doubled wrote:Well I speak as not a Necron player but as someone whom has player agianst them numerous times, you want and need a large number of warriors, and as you elite Immortals, with of course a lord. Phase out is the most annoying way you can loose, I can have 1 model left, and kill the 76th warrior out of a hundred, and then I win because your army decided to say "Screw you guys we're going home."

Actually, the fewer warriors you have, the more competitive your list is. They are a nearly useless point sink.

This is true.

Sooo... an Ideal list only takes an obligatory 2 squads of 10 Warriors? I am not trying to be sarcastic, I build Necron list so I can Math Hammer them against my Ork list so I can best predict what I need to do next in a Tournament...

How do you win objecive missions with just two ten man units of warriors?

Aduro wrote:How do you win objective missions with just two ten man units of warriors?

You can't thats why it's good to at least have 30 warriors on the board so 1 unit can baby sit *going to ground* on the objective while the other 2 units of warriors and lord stand behind monoliths and walk across the board.

Scarabs are surprising. Against my Orks, I hulk smashed them pretty badly, BUT I was shot to hell afterwards. Really tho they are great against SM and everything else at least to hold them up. Not to mention like previously stated, they are FAST and get right into your enemies face. That can be a little scary, yet at the same time against confident players, they laugh and think theyll just shoot them to death. They wont, not in the first turn for sure. Thats at leas WHOLE turn you wont get shot or assaulted just because of the scarabs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lord_of_Nightmares wrote:I'd deepstrike in a scarab swarm as well and give them the disruption fields, so the scarabs could tie up any vehicles while the flayed ones tied up any troops...

This would give the rest of your army time to advance or teleport into shooting range...

Uh, tie up vehicles? You cant tie up a vehicle in CC. You just move the vehicle, granted youll have to move around a swarm, but thats the same for anything on the table youd have to move around

Grimaldi wrote:

Lord_of_Nightmares wrote:
Any transports are going to crash and burn quickly against Necrons with the glancing hits from any guass weapon. Even a strength 2 Scarab can take out a Land Raider with a disruption field.

Dude, there should be a law against jokes like that. I almost wet myself laughing. Seriously, necrons counting on glances from gauss weapons is a desperate tactic. I've played Necrons 3 times with my mech vets, and they've never glanced anything to death. Heavy destroyers have downed a vendetta and knocked a few weapons off things, but that's it.

As for scarabs, the turbo-boosting forward bit is fine until you run into an army with template weapons. They ignore the cover save and do double damage. Not much else in the necron list is really a good flamer target, so every flamer available is going to hit it them.

Well I've played a few more than 3 games and seen a Land Raider destroyed on the first assualt by scarabs... it only takes a 6 to hit and then a 6 on the glancing hit, when you're rolling for 20 or 30 attacks on average you'd be surprised how often it will come up. (10 bases has 30 attacks plus 10 for charging, minus a few for loses) Even with a lower score you can seriously hamper a vehicles effectiveness, stopping them shooting and moving is quite useful.

And the sight of a bunch of assult marines walking across the battlefield and never getting into assualt range is quite funny, its worth it just for that

And its not too difficult to get scarabs into assualt range relatively unharmed. If you turbo boost them their armour save becomes invulnerable, so a 3rd of all wounds will be saved, and as 10 bases have 30 wounds you have to score 21 or more wounds before you start getting rid of bases... against non-template wounds they'll have a cover save at +1 plus their invulnerable armour save.

And if nothing else, your opponent is shooting at scarabs which is what they're there for. They can't capture objectives or hold table quarters, so they're there purely to disrupt your opponents line and allow the rest of your force to get into shooting range.

10 scarab bases, 160pts, turbo boosting them across the battlefield, desperate tactic, look on your opponents face when his best vehicle gets destroyed by a str 2 insect, priceless

Lord_of_Nightmares wrote:
Well I've played a few more than 3 games and seen a Land Raider destroyed on the first assualt by scarabs... it only takes a 6 to hit and then a 6 on the glancing hit . . .

Were they 5e games?

Lord_of_Nightmares wrote:
If you turbo boost them their armour save becomes invulnerable, so a 3rd of all wounds will be saved

Just to nit pick this...Their armor save does not become invulnerable. Turbo-boosting gives you a 3+ cover save, and Scarab swarms get a 2+ cover save for having stealth.

I do very well with my Necrons and I have learned that I don't need to kill a vehicle to keep it out of the game. Destroyers can stop Rhinos pretty consistently, Heavy Destroyers do well against Chimeras/Wave Serpents, and for armor 13-14 I can rely on either to shake/stun/weapon destroy the thing until it's not a big deal anymore. For example, from my experience a Leman Russ without its turret just doesn't cause enough damage for me to worry about it (unless they have plasma cannon sponsons...those can hurt).

With my list I usually immobilize a couple of vehicles in the game which would allow 5 Scarabs 20 automatic hits and another 15 if they aren't shot off the thing before the next assault phase. They have a decent chance of ripping off the important weapons.

Large units of scarabs can pull units off objectives. Line up the bases (with 10 you can make a line around 30") and then assault the unit on the objective from an obscure angle. You'll probably get a few bases killed, but remove the closest ones forcing the unit more off the objective. As a turn 5 tactic, it can work very well. I usually turbo-boost my swarms onto the board and then keep turbo-boosting until they have a prime target. My opponent either tries to overwhelm my 2+ cover save, or he allows me to strike where and when I want to maximize the swarm's effectiveness.

Grrr got to clear out my bookcase, picked up the 4e rulebook!!!!

I do miss the days of destroying vehicles with scarabs :(

Lord_of_Nightmares wrote:Grrr got to clear out my bookcase, picked up the 4e rulebook!!!!

I do miss the days of destroying vehicles with scarabs :(

Lol?,does this mean you cheated someone out of there land raider ? if so AWESOME!!!

Farmer wrote:

Lord_of_Nightmares wrote:Grrr got to clear out my bookcase, picked up the 4e rulebook!!!!

I do miss the days of destroying vehicles with scarabs :(

Lol?,does this mean you cheated someone out of there land raider ? if so AWESOME!!!

Haha... just remembering better days, lol

Farmer wrote:

Aduro wrote:How do you win objective missions with just two ten man units of warriors?

You can't thats why it's good to at least have 30 warriors on the board so 1 unit can baby sit *going to ground* on the objective while the other 2 units of warriors and lord stand behind monoliths and walk across the board.

Sooo... an Ideal list only takes an obligatory 2 squads of 10 Warriors? I am not trying to be sarcastic, I build Necron list so I can Math Hammer them against my Ork list so I can best predict what I need to do next in a Tournament...

Step one: Put both squads in reserve so that they can't be shot up.

Step two: Use the rest of your army as a distraction/wall so that your warriors won't be killed.

Step three: Wait as your monoliths move across the board, and port onto the objectives. Of course, every other army has the advantage of more than 2 troops squads, so you will obviously have to target them. I find that these are usually the easiest to kill of all of the opponents' units in any case.