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Tk421 wrote:Use the above arguments (which are all well-crafted), read this, kick back in your chair, and laugh knowing that he's just a complete idiot and total n00b.

Bookmarked. Thanks for that

I guess I personally think it's reasonable? Everyone's entitled to their own opinion about what they want to field, right?

I haven't seen too many people clambering to get all those night goblins left over from the fantasy starter set

RiTides Nids wrote:I guess I personally think it's reasonable? Everyone's entitled to their own opinion about what they want to field, right?

I haven't seen too many people clambering to get all those night goblins left over from the fantasy starter set

I just finished painting those bloody things. So...many... I'll probably scream if I have to paint another regiment of them. After you paint 62 Night goblins, you've painted a lifetime's worth.

RiTides Nids wrote:I guess I personally think it's reasonable? Everyone's entitled to their own opinion about what they want to field, right?

I haven't seen too many people clambering to get all those night goblins left over from the fantasy starter set

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Once you express it, though, then you're fair game for everyone who has a different opinion to refute it. As for the night goblins, trust me when I say that they sell much better than the dwarves. Since he's talking about the 40k starter set I can only assume that he's a 40k player. Considering the fact that it's a much more balanced game it's not much of a stretch to assume that a good player with a "starter army" could beat his list that's "designed to beat" said army. Man I wish I could play this guy. Win or lose I guarantee I'd have him crying about something by the end of it.

Slap him with a midget.

About the only way the starters are useless is if you do not play an y of the armies in them. Slap him with two midgets.

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:About the only way the starters are useless is if you do not play an y of the armies in them. Slap him with two midgets.

They're still not useless. It costs $50 for a rulebook. The starter set costs $60. It's very hard for me to believe that you can't buy a starter set to get the dice, templates and rulebook and then trade or sell the figs so that you can get figs that you want.

about the models.
tell him that usual marines(or most models) are to complex for brand new players to assemble straight from the getgo.
and there for will result in crappy models and people not likeing to continure the game.

artyboy wrote:

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:About the only way the starters are useless is if you do not play an y of the armies in them. Slap him with two midgets.

They're still not useless. It costs $50 for a rulebook. The starter set costs $60. It's very hard for me to believe that you can't buy a starter set to get the dice, templates and rulebook and then trade or sell the figs so that you can get figs that you want.

Excellent point - rules + templates = cost of AoBR. The models are cream. (and all the models other than the tacticals are fairly nice)
It would have been nice if there was a little scenery in the set, some walls or barricades.

Well if you want a Dreadnought with the stuff it's supposed to have by default......

LunaHound wrote:
Ok Dakka , i need your brain muscle for dealing with a guy. He is basically whinning and moaning about these new cheap starter sets
GW made to jump start new players .

He is saying:

-The set doesnt provide the units he likes , or he finds useful in his list.
-Every new player is almost guaranteed to buy a starter set because its so cheap ( and even more if they are Marine / Ork player ) , thus he can come up with a list to easily counter / beat these starter armies in 5 mins.
-They only come with simple 2 piece snap fit minis ( not the usual kit type )

There you go guys , personally im too tired to deal / argue / or even attempt to reason with him.
So maybe you can leave your comments here and i'll just point this thread to him -_-

Kick him in the head until he passes out, and then toss him in a bog.

-The set wasn't made with what he wants in mind. It's a starter set.
- If he is trolling game stores looking for "little jimmy with his new starter set" he's pathetic. But if he get's his jollies off playing new players and beating them with a specially tooled list, then ignore him. Until later tonite when you do him bodily harm and bury the body.
-2 piece models = Starter set. Again, it's not about him.

He's being an argumentative tool that want's things to revolve around him. GW isn't going to remake a starter set to fit his needs. He can buy it, or shut up. Or run around beating up 12 year olds with basic armies.

Point out that the Orks are 3-piece snap-fit Minis.

LunaHound wrote:
-The set doesnt provide the units he likes , or he finds useful in his list.
-Every new player is almost guaranteed to buy a starter set because its so cheap ( and even more if they are Marine / Ork player ) , thus he can come up with a list to easily counter / beat these starter armies in 5 mins.
-They only come with simple 2 piece snap fit minis ( not the usual kit type )

I guess I don't see what the argument is about, none of his "points" seem that badly off the wall, If he doesn't like the starter boxes, he doesn't have to buy em, and can build his army boxed set by box set and blister by blister.

Lanceradvanced wrote:I guess I don't see what the argument is about, none of his "points" seem that badly off the wall, If he doesn't like the starter boxes, he doesn't have to buy em, and can build his army boxed set by box set and blister by blister.

I really agree with this! I played 40k in 3rd edition, and mostly purchased what was available at a large discount. The result was a standard-type army that I didn't feel was my "own". This past fall, I decided to get back into 40k, and I purchased almost everything via bits from the WarStore. I was able to buy the starter set rulebook separately, some non-GW templates, my own favorite color of dice, and then all of the individual models I wanted.

For example (I know it's not effective) I chose to buy only hormagaunts and not termagaunts, because I like the models. I also purchased lictors, a LOT of raveners, and had GW send me a Red Terror to convert into a Hive Tyrant.

I since traded the army because I'm starting teaching and was not able to finish working on it. But I really enjoyed my choice, and personally much more so than if I had bought a set. I got to totally personalize it, and it's true, stay away from some of the units that were in the sets (I wanted to go for a total swarm list without the big bugs. Again, I know it's not effective ).

So if he wants to go the route of buying units individually and building up his army slowly to get exactly the theme he wants to his list, more power to him! For me it was also about the models- I wanted to buy the models I loved the look of, rather than just the best deal (since I'm getting a discount from the WarStore, anyway).

Just my $0.02

1. They have core units for player starting out.
2. They have the rulebboks and dice.

smack this guy upside the head for being so foolish.

No im not going to do anything about it anymore.

The mods decided that this sentence is combative and deserves to give me a *little warning:

I said:

I mean thats what it is , a nice starter but complete Army, with units from each type that people generally love . Sure you can tailor an army to just beat the composition of that box set.
But what does that tell others about YOUR character and personality?

seriously w/e i can only pray for him that he'll live on with his petty life

LOL Please pm me with what forum this dude is on.

LunaHound wrote:Sure you can tailor an army to just beat the composition of that box set.
But what does that tell others about YOUR character and personality?

That he's very easily bored after facing the 5th identical AOBR marine/ork army?

I mean if you're playing the same game -again-, and -again- and -again- it can wear thin, pretty quickly, also, there is something to be said for positivly defeating someone soundly by tailoring your list to beat theirs, it offers them a pretty good motivator to go do something different, (usually, buy a new unit) to stop it from happening..

If you're playing the same game again and again and again, then I'd say it behooves to start looking for opponent's who have been in the game long enough to have moved beyond just fielding a starter box force.

If he doesnt want the AoBR box and he wants to play the Space Marines, tell him to get the Spear of Sicarius...it should have any and all the unit he wants!

LunaHound wrote:
Ok Dakka , i need your brain muscle for dealing with a guy. He is basically whinning and moaning about these new cheap starter sets
GW made to jump start new players .

He is saying:

-The set doesnt provide the units he likes , or he finds useful in his list.
-Every new player is almost guaranteed to buy a starter set because its so cheap ( and even more if they are Marine / Ork player ) , thus he can come up with a list to easily counter / beat these starter armies in 5 mins.
-They only come with simple 2 piece snap fit minis ( not the usual kit type )

There you go guys , personally im too tired to deal / argue / or even attempt to reason with him.
So maybe you can leave your comments here and i'll just point this thread to him -_-

Why is it that you think that his opinion is wrong? He wants other unit types and doesn't want the starter.. What's so wrong with that?

Personally, I think you are overreacting and should let him have his own opinion. If he wants to buy stuff and spend more, let him.. it's not affecting your game play in any way, so let it go..




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artyboy wrote:

RiTides Nids wrote:I guess I personally think it's reasonable? Everyone's entitled to their own opinion about what they want to field, right?

I haven't seen too many people clambering to get all those night goblins left over from the fantasy starter set

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Once you express it, though, then you're fair game for everyone who has a different opinion to refute it. As for the night goblins, trust me when I say that they sell much better than the dwarves. Since he's talking about the 40k starter set I can only assume that he's a 40k player. Considering the fact that it's a much more balanced game it's not much of a stretch to assume that a good player with a "starter army" could beat his list that's "designed to beat" said army. Man I wish I could play this guy. Win or lose I guarantee I'd have him crying about something by the end of it.

I just wonder why everyone wants so much to refute someone else's opinion.. An opinion is just that, and quite frankly those that feel the need to squelch or squash an opinion are nothing more than typical bullies that think their opinions are more correct. To be honest, at the end of the day, if you can't discuss it without hostility, you won't convince them when you have to resort to hostility..

That's my opinion, feel free to build your epeen and refute it if you feel the need..


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LunaHound wrote:
So far i basically told him:

Its true it might not have the units YOU want , but how is company supposed to tailor to everyone's preference.

Why not take the core units as it is ( and the set been so cheap) , take the rest of the box AS IF ITS FOR FREE , and stop moaning!

Or perhaps you could simply find out what it is he wants.. help him build his army with that list, then compare the prices.. Or even, take some time and show him how he could use the starter box to build that same army.. You could also hook him up with someone who is looking to build the other army, then they both will have twice as much stuff for their armies..

Trying to tell him he's wrong is about the dumbest thing anyone trying to sell something can do.. Would you like someone to keep shoving something down your throat that you aren't interested in?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

avantgarde wrote:Ask him what he would put in a starter set. Then repeat his arguments verbatim back to him no matter how reasonable his choices are until he gets it.

Why not just kick him in the nuts over an over, it has the same stupid affect.. This is a perfect idea, if you want to come across as a jackass.. yep, that brings people back..


Look, Luna, in the end, your opinion is just as valid as his. If you think it's a great deal, then by all means, let others know about it. If he comes along and starts kicking the proverbial internet sand in your eyes, just point back to your facts.. (cost of models in the box).. Remind him you think it's a great deal and let him make a fool of himself by acting like a jackass and let his own arguments sink him..

two_heads_talking wrote:
Look, Luna, in the end, your opinion is just as valid as his. If you think it's a great deal, then by all means, let others know about it. If he comes along and starts kicking the proverbial internet sand in your eyes, just point back to your facts.. (cost of models in the box).. Remind him you think it's a great deal and let him make a fool of himself by acting like a jackass and let his own arguments sink him..

I know his opinion is as important to himself as mine is to me. See the part i high lighted? this is only 1/7th of the things he complains about actively on the forum.
He complains every single aspect of the hobby , to the point you must ask why is he still playing?

Me and another member have even went for the extra mile , and offered to buy the existing product that he is complaining about off him.
This way he wouldnt need to be disgruntled from having wasted money , and troll other's thread to death. At first he lied about having fully painted the army , so he refused to sell it ,
then a month later we saw his auction on ebay , it was just assembled. Then he came on forum boasting he made money off the sale , which is weird , it was sold at 65%off msrp
for 15% less than what we offered him. But w/e we tried to be nice.

just point back to your facts.

Yes , thats what this thread is for. So i can just point it here , facts from other members. Because he already made it up in his mind, whenever i like a product,
the only reason would be because im a fangirl , not anything else.

Well if it doesn't have what he want he wants then tell him to stop bitching about it and tell him not buy the f***ing set.

99MDeery wrote:Shoot him. Its the only way to deal with idiots.

Yes... indeed. I hope I don't say something stupid...

The way I look at the starter sets is they usually have one bad item that you just do not want. The problem is this means you have to sell that item or just get used to using it in order to get the full value out of your set. That would be my complaint if any, their are extremely obvious "better" units, so it appears to be a way of simply getting rid of overstock. Not much of a deal besides for our friends the Aussies from what I have heard. GW must have a grudge... wait why does half of the economy shake such a huge stick at Aussie-land?

When I first started playing WH40k my friend offered to split a AoBR set (the SM and Orks one) so I obliged. It turned out to be unplayable, and I looked through all of the codices and models to find I actually relatively disliked most of the Orks stuff (for complicated reasons) and would rather play eldar. He still has the Ork stuff, unpainted, ready to sell. The fact is, he won't get his money out of the set until he sells those guys, and if he is unlucky everyone will already have all the random Ork stuff they need besides vehicles. Deffkoptas are actually on of my fave Ork models, so I may buy those at some point, perhaps.

Think about it this way... either buy it or don't, but I can't agree that it is actually a good deal unless for whatever reason you need all of the units in the set.

"Note"
Arguing over personal taste in units is quite pointless, this sounds slightly ridiculous to me. The guy buggin Luna that is, or the community or w/e. The fact is, if the guy is a douche with a pancake for a face, you might as well walk away... just walk away Luna.

Point out that using the AoBR box also helps in beefing up an existing army. I did this for my marines. Saved me some dough in making some tactical squads and I used the Captain as my Chapter Master (decent detail for not being a multipart kit). Not to mention the pocket rulebook that comes with it is much handier than lugging around the fullsize hardcover (though I do have both I use one for friendly games at the house and the pocket book for games at the local game store).

In the end though it boils down to personal preference. He may not like the box set but it may be perfect for someone else and might be that hook to get them in the hobby.

You can actually save quite a bit if you buy AoBR sets at 20% off online with free shipping, I would but the eldar set may or may not suit my needs. I need to figure out where my single eldar army is headed.

Craftworld Wrexasaur FTW!!!

I'm not clear about the original post. Are you saying the guy is a new player and thinks he can build a "better" list ( competitive, better looking, whatever) than what comes in the starter set? If that is the case, then you can suggest alternatives.

Is he saying that the box set sucks because he, as a veteran player, can tailor a list to beat the contents? If that is the case, well, he may have a right to his opinion, but you might explain to him that he is missing the entire point of the box set. The starter kit, I would imagine, is to start a player with two small armies so that the purchaser can play with friends ( hopefully dragging them in), and the models are designed so that they are easy to assemble and still get decent looking results, so as to encourage the beginning hobbyist to continue with the hobby.

avantgarde wrote:Ask him what he would put in a starter set. Then repeat his arguments verbatim back to him no matter how reasonable his choices are until he gets it.

I like the cut of your jib.

LunaHound wrote:We would think he is trolling? because his ideas are beyond silly. Then when we alert mods to the trolling , the mods responded "well its his opinion , and as
long as he expresses it fairly , we dont see it as an issue of trolling "

How crazy that people on the internet have different opinions...

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

What boxset couldn't be countered? You always know what you're facing against so you can tool accordingly.

However I do agree that some boxsets and battleforces have pretty questionable units then again its all about the $$$. For instance, taking away the Leman Russ battle tank and replacing it with the new sentinel is a downgrade imo.

Although it is pretty questionable why the OP wants to put down this person so bad.