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Is he worth it? The answer will be subjective.
How do I answer the question? By putting down what I think of it.

How else would you answer the question? Are you suggesting that to get to the worthiness of a unit does not involve personal opinions of each member of a community?

I thought we are bouncing ideas and such. Attack the arguement of '2 Dps > Abby', not the poster.
Now if this is all in good jest, a smiley face would help alot :-(
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Abby is more expensive than a Land Raider and contributes nothing outside of combat. Even in combat he can go stupid.

For the same cost you could get:

-A CSM squad, IoCG, 2 Meltas, Fist champ in a rhino with change remaining.
-2 Daemon Princes with Wings, with 15 points remaining.
-20 lesser daemons with 3 personal icons.
-10 Raptors, IoCG, 2 Meltas, with a pair of claws.
-9 Zerkers with fist and rhino.

Abby needs delivery, most will suggest a Land Raider, that means we are talking 5 points shy of 500 points...a quarter of 2000 points.
This helps with his 'getting into combat, but today's meta gears towards melta wpnry and even the anti-double LR lists.

Of course the answering the question regarding whether Abbadon is worth his points will involve people comparing opinions, people have different perspectives after all.

It's like asking if a yard is 90cm, some people will have the opinion that this is true, and others will be of the opinion that this is false. However, none of these opinions will be correct, since 91.44cm in metric is worth one yard in imperial.

My point? My point is that by comparing and contrasting each other's opinions with the facts as we share them, we can ascertain whether one or both of us is wrong, and by what degree. In the case of the value of a yard in metric measure, the non-90cm opinion is less wrong than the 90cm opinion despite the possibility that the margin of error express on the non-90cm side may be larger!

Whether we are talking about Abbadon or measuring sticks, we pull out information that we both share, and which can be demonstrated to fit the facts, information which is objective, and then we test our opinions against that body of knowledge. So we're concerned with Abbadon's capabilities, points cost, and other facts.

One fact is that Abbadon can Deep Strike, thanks to his Terminator Armour, and that such a Deep Strike can be made accurate by having Icons on the board where he wants to land. While he's only armed with a Twin-Linked Bolter, he can always land with an escort of Obliterators.

Abaddon + 1 lash of submission = WIN at both the Irish and Dutch GTs.

@Nurglitch:

I see now. Basically: focus on Abby.
Mentioning something else is not helpful because it doesn't directly relate to Abby being good or bad.
KK, makes sense. It's a kneejerk reacion for me to rather go for an option that I know is tried and proven well. As indirect as it is, it was pointing out the faults of his high cost...though it is something that has been beaten to death already.
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My issue with DSing Abby is that it's 'random'.
Turn 2 is nice, it gives you more time to get into combat.
Turn 2 = the earilest to charge is turn 3, but the opponent need only move away enough to make it into a turn 4 charge. (this in itself can be beneficial, I will admit). But in general, any DSing in COmbat unit vs. a non-combat unit would move away, so Abby in most cases is overkill.

Lash + Abby can work well enough, getting around his in-ability to speed up without his pimp mobile.
I personally trust squads over a single character.

Has rolling a '1' been 'that bad' for those with experience? I have an Abby model I pull out once in a while, the most he does is area denial in the handful of games I've had with him.

the problem mainly is he needs a new model. you can win games with him or he can do nothing. I mean seriously wins games with him the rest of your army can pretty much do nothing. I don't mech up and he walks/runs. putting him in a ten man berzerker squad will get him across the board more often then in a land raider. a lot of his usefulness come from your usual opponent and local terrian. He is painfully good against my regular opponents but not so good at larger events.

Abbadon is ridiculously powerful, but as many have said I would only field him in games that are 1000+ points

Kharn is a great replacement, because if you think about it, kharn is hitting on 2+, while abby at 3+
and kharn is usually wounding on 2+, just like abby (because of his furious charge)
And you don't need to get a lr with kharn, rhino works perfectly fine

Abby has more attacks, but heck, that 100 so points you save by getting kharn is definitely worth it

I've only used Abaddon once, and he accomplished nothing. He rolled a 1 for the number of attacks from his Daemon weapon three turns in a row and then got killed by a maxed out unit of Howling Banshees. Gaaahhh!!!

i use abby in my raider rush list
abby +8 zerkers in a lr
10 zerkers in a lr
10 zerkers in a lr
max abuse furious charge rule
i have never lost using this list

Theblklotus ran a pretty successful force with Abbaddon and Typhus mounted in Land Raiders. In some games, they even held hands.

Abaddon by himself unsupported is a bad idea, if you have the models and the money/points, typhus Abby combo in a land raider is a amazing combo, Typhus for mobs and Abby for anything big or with alot of wound and high toughness

Why can't this die?
@CalasTyphon216:

Just throwing a list down and saying it hasn't lost isn't exactly helping IMO.
-How will it deploy?, what are the back up plans if a rush is not a viable plan, what if the Raiders are taken out quick in this (ranged melta world).

As far as I can see it's a 1750 ish list.
It's got 3 AV14 targets.... which hit or miss with most competitive armies. Then it's 3 MEQ squads that really need the charge to be their best, which is not always the case, esp. vs. other mech list where their initiative is stunted.

@Katavus:
Agreed, and there lies the problem... it costs even more to get him a posse. The most ideal (termies) are not fearless, while he's in T.Armor, can't get in a rhino with Power armored cults.

So you are almost forced into getting a LR, which is IMO a questionable unit.

CalasTyphon: 3 Raiders?
Agree w/ Sanctjud, it looks like 1750.
3 raiders?
I run Raider Rush, 3 Raiders is for 2500 games, not 1750.

Abbadon is a true power house and he can beat down anything. On the flipside he is very expensive plus there is always the possibility you'll roll a one for his number of hits in close combat and it always seems to happen at the worst time, which just seems to always be the case with any daemon weapon. Abbadon can win games but he can also lose them as well... He is just too random for the amount of points you are paying to field him

G

The trick to dealing with a Daemon Weapon is to put Abbadon or any other Chaos Lord in a unit of Fearless assault troops like Possessed, Berzerkers, or even Plague Marines. You don't need to worry about over-kill because, thanks to Terminator Armour, Abbadon prevents the units from executing a Sweeping Advance.

Darien13 wrote:Abbadon is ridiculously powerful, but as many have said I would only field him in games that are 1000+ points

Kharn is a great replacement, because if you think about it, kharn is hitting on 2+, while abby at 3+
and kharn is usually wounding on 2+, just like abby (because of his furious charge)
And you don't need to get a lr with kharn, rhino works perfectly fine

Abby has more attacks, but heck, that 100 so points you save by getting kharn is definitely worth it

Kharn is also better against vehicles. 2D6 pen @ S6 can toast a Raider. S8 vs. AV14 is kind of meh...

The other special characters don't work due to lack of eternal warrior.

G

@Green Blow Fly:
So basically it's Abbadon or 2 Flying Daemon Princes in your book

I prefer the 2 Cheese Mongers.

Me too.

G

I know lash is awesome and all but its not 100% guaranteed to even go off and with all the anti psyker in the last 3 codexes you can pretty much assume most armies you play will have a chance to negate your lash power, or make you test on a lower leadership or with extra dice...

Abbadon is a big expensive character, for the months of february to june he will be worth his points for all the people playing with unpainted nid armies and having 250+ point HQ selections.

in seriousness if Abbadon is targetted at units that are big and expensive he is worth his points, if he spends most of the game walking across the table or fighting grots/scarab swards/ rippers/ etc he is not worth his points.

And so a good player tarpits you with Grots/Scarabs/Rippers or Lashes Abbadon or Rhino Blocks Abbadon or just pops his LR and ignores him as he slogs up the board.

no, at least in the three 750 point games I've dealt with him against my Tau.

I was running 2x12 FW
16 Kroot, 2 hounds, 1 krootox
Fire Knife Commander

Deathrain Squad in 1 game, 2 games with hammer head with Ion Cannon(Troop Killer)

I was able to get Abbadon and his terminators into rapid fire range of all 3 of my troops many times and that many dice he will die. Once assulted him with maybe ten kroot left and they lasted enough to drop him.

Nurglitch wrote:Mind you, I have to agree with the sentiment that a Chaos Space Marine army does not requires any Lashes of Submission, particularly in the modern 5th edition environment.

Definitely. I think the Nurgle Prince is a much stronger option. Recently, I played a tournament game against an army with a Lash Prince. Since I'm mostly mech, he wasn't really able to get any good Lashes off, and he ultimately went down to massed firepower without killing much. The extra point of Toughness that a Nurgle Prince benefits from would have made it a lot harder for me to pick him off like that. Against uber unit armies, Lash can be great, but uber units have fallen out of fashion...

I agree as well... but with a twist.
Lash is much Fail if someone builds a list around it and RELIES on it.

It is a very powerful tool for those that win without it.

I personally feel the 'Spartan Prince' (just wings) is a strong option.
Cheap, killy, tough, target saturation, expendable...times 4 when 2 are present.

Sanctjud wrote:
Lash is much Fail if someone builds a list around it and RELIES on it.

It is a very powerful tool for those that win without it.

Agreed completely. Is Lash a nice force multiplier? Yes. If you don't get off a Lash all game, can you still pound someone flat? Yes.

One of Lash's main utilities is that it lets you go on autopilot if your opponent has no psychic defense (for example, Orks, other CSM, certain Marine lists, old nids-even new Nids'll have trouble w/ 2 because IIRC Deathleaper only works on one model). In a tourney-where you're playing all day-being able to cruise through a game is beneficial to your ability to focus and play better in later games.

Tau, Orks, Necrons, Chaos SM, Chaos Daemons, Dark Eldar all have no psychic defense.

G

blaktoof wrote:I know lash is awesome and all but its not 100% guaranteed to even go off and with all the anti psyker in the last 3 codexes you can pretty much assume most armies you play will have a chance to negate your lash power, or make you test on a lower leadership or with extra dice...

Abbadon is a big expensive character, for the months of february to june he will be worth his points for all the people playing with unpainted nid armies and having 250+ point HQ selections.

in seriousness if Abbadon is targetted at units that are big and expensive he is worth his points, if he spends most of the game walking across the table or fighting grots/scarab swards/ rippers/ etc he is not worth his points.

Point cost vs stats & abilities YES OH GOD YES! But what you have to spend for him to actually do well in a game NO.
You cant take him walking, reserve rolls suck then scatter ugh. You have to take him in a land raider. If you dont get termies LR takes a heavy support which is where CSM really shine well (obliterators + vindi even cheap havocs).
I use him in Apocalypse games only.

Agreed that Abaddon is too random, but the thing is that i've seen him get charged by 40 orks and walk out unscathed; i've seen him get shot by 20 space marines and not lose a wound; and i've seen him dispatch the nightbringer in cc in 3 turns. Whatever way you see it, you have to admit that Abaddon is not only a cc monster, he is also a major target for your oponent's shooting, so you could tye up half the opponent's army with him. Give him a squad of nurgle termies to soak up wounds while the rest of your army sneaks off to grab objectives.

olympia wrote:Abaddon + 1 lash of submission = WIN at both the Irish and Dutch GTs.

I've used that same setup b4. kills everything.

He killed two daemon princes... 'nuff said

He is a wrecking ball in ard boyz level games, where you can afford him, a body guard, and a raider with ease. I saw the man single handedly charge 10 nob bikers and a warboss, killed 8 in one round, nobs inflict 1 wound and run off the table. Name me 1 other character who can do that.