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Xav wrote:Its funny that if you look at space marines, all the good builds, are using the ablitilys of Special Characters, aint there any reasonably good torny builds, without special characters for marines.

You can go with a Captain with Relic Blade and Bike rather than Khan or a Librarian, I think those are the only viable options without special characters.
It is a bit sad that you can not build anything nearly as good as the characters using the DIY Captain options.

Lyracian wrote:

Xav wrote:Its funny that if you look at space marines, all the good builds, are using the ablitilys of Special Characters, aint there any reasonably good torny builds, without special characters for marines.

You can go with a Captain with Relic Blade and Bike rather than Khan or a Librarian, I think those are the only viable options without special characters.
It is a bit sad that you can not build anything nearly as good as the characters using the DIY Captain options.

This is true,but it's like saying a CSM list can't work if it doesn't run 2 lash of submissions per army.

Although it might be that the characters themselves are a bargun for what role they play in the army,if i did a wych cult army i would take Lilith hands down

Can someone explain the khrone spam and dual lash thing. I had a khrone army last edition and i haven't gotten the new codex yet. Can i fix my army by getting 2 nurgle demone princes with lash??? what is lash?? sorry for being a bit of a noob.

but... if i could fix my army by just getting 2 demon princes and some oblits that would sweet

acreedon wrote:Can someone explain the khrone spam and dual lash thing. I had a khrone army last edition and i haven't gotten the new codex yet. Can i fix my army by getting 2 nurgle demone princes with lash??? what is lash?? sorry for being a bit of a noob.

but... if i could fix my army by just getting 2 demon princes and some oblits that would sweet

It's hard for me to explain since i don't have the codex but here it goes.

Lash of Submission is a psychic power (Mark Of Slannesh only) which you may give it to your DP's or Sorcerers.

The Lash allows you to move your opponents models 2xd6 aslong as there within 24 inchs and line of site i believe.

The basic factor is you smush all your opponents terminators together and then go "2+ save?" "say hai to my 9 obliteraters with Plasma cannons" And basically catch every single one of them under the template,same apply if your going to run 3 vindicators aswell.

Hope i explained it well enough.

The winner is clearly:

Kroot Mercenaries:
Brown Horde

Tell any opponent your playing the Brown Horde and see what happens next...

acreedon wrote:Can someone explain the khrone spam and dual lash thing. I had a khrone army last edition and i haven't gotten the new codex yet. Can i fix my army by getting 2 nurgle demone princes with lash??? what is lash?? sorry for being a bit of a noob.

but... if i could fix my army by just getting 2 demon princes and some oblits that would sweet

They aren't Nurgle Daemon Princes. They are Slaanesh Daemon Princes.

lash allows you to move your opponent's guys around.

And we forgive you for being a bit of a noob.

I agree Vulkan Marines should be listed. I like Vulkan, 30 thunder termies and a null zone librarian.

asugradinwa wrote:You forgot Vulkan Melta Spam. I've won two RTT's, placed first in a 'ard Boys 1st round, and been playing in the top 3 tables of 3 indy GT's on the second day with it.

Linkdead wrote:The winner is clearly:

Kroot Mercenaries:
Brown Horde

Tell any opponent your playing the Brown Horde and see what happens next...

Rofl...

Farmer wrote:This is true,but it's like saying a CSM list can't work if it doesn't run 2 lash of submissions per army.

I do not agree. Lash is available on generic HQ's you do not have to take a special character to be able to use. You can decide what unit and upgrades you want.

If Marines want access to "the good stuff" they have to take a Special Charater all of whom have better wargear than you can buy for the DIY HQ.

Lyracian wrote:

Farmer wrote:This is true,but it's like saying a CSM list can't work if it doesn't run 2 lash of submissions per army.

I do not agree. Lash is available on generic HQ's you do not have to take a special character to be able to use. You can decide what unit and upgrades you want.

If Marines want access to "the good stuff" they have to take a Special Charater all of whom have better wargear than you can buy for the DIY HQ.

Yes,but the fact still remains that in order to make a CSM list work it takes 2 lashs that means either forking out 2 DP's or sorcerers into the list,where is you buy say "vulkan" for 200ish points and he gains your army the tactical role of what it needs to do,get me ?.

Personally only characters i think are worth taking in a CSM list is Kharn and typhus. The others seem abit of a points sink or intended for larger games.

Tau:
5/10, 2 Fire warrior squads in warfish, 3-6 Broadsides, 1-2 hammerheads. Rest to taste. THe theme is only S5 and S10 weapons (though you probably break that with the suits)

Add the mechvet list for IG...

My Votes:
Imperial Guard: They make good use of cover rules, have very strong anti mechanized and anti horde units and reasonable access to anti-psyker wargear via the inquisition. also Highly Mobile.

Daemon Hunters: Are incredibly competitive when allied with IG for weight of fire/cheap scoring units. Purgation squads also annihilate chaos daemons and eldar seer councils. Alot more...

Dark Eldar: inexpensive, highly mobile, good in assault, great shooting and anti mech, wyches are dead killy.

o ok, thank you for explaining that.

IG have access to a lot of fun stuff and if put together correctly they can do unbelievable amounts of damage.

Don't forget the artillery spam that obliterates foot sloggers with mirthless glee.6 Colossuses and 3 medusas is going to wreak havoc with just about everybody.

Try Again Bragg wrote:Don't forget the artillery spam that obliterates foot sloggers with mirthless glee.6 Colossuses and 3 medusas is going to wreak havoc with just about everybody.

Until things start getting really close to your arty guns..

Deep strikers would destroy artillery spam really quickly.

Farmer wrote:Yes,but the fact still remains that in order to make a CSM list work it takes 2 lashs...

That is a bunch of crap.

A few dif but why no one else pic kroot mercs? :(

Farmer wrote:Yes,but the fact still remains that in order to make a CSM list work it takes 2 lashs that means either forking out 2 DP's or sorcerers into the list,where is you buy say "vulkan" for 200ish points and he gains your army the tactical role of what it needs to do,get me ?.

No I do not. I disagree that you have to take doulbe Lash, that is like saying Eldar have to take a Farseer. The fact remains that even if you do take doulbe Lash you can still custimse your HQ. You can have prince or Sorcerer can choice if you want wings, Terminator Armour, etc.

Marines can not do this as the Special Characters Wargear is fixed. That is what I find sad about the new Ultramarine 'dex.

Kungfuhustler wrote:

Farmer wrote:Yes,but the fact still remains that in order to make a CSM list work it takes 2 lashs...

That is a bunch of crap.

Then am sure you won't mind finding a Chaos list that actually won a GT tournament without using the Lash of submission ?.

So, an army is crap b/c it hasn't won a GT? No player skill involvement? What happens when a player beats a list with 2 Lash Princes? Not really a good measurement, in my opinion.

To be honest, however, I've not seen a compiled list of the US indy GT winners this year, so I can't say who has won or lost.

Sarigar wrote:So, an army is crap b/c it hasn't won a GT?

I wasn't implying there "crap" i was saying if you wanted to make them competitive in environments where ey lists are everywhere.

Personally i feel the current chaos dex is limited.


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Kungfuhustler wrote:
Dark Eldar: inexpensive, highly mobile, good in assault, great shooting and anti mech, wyches are dead killy.

I agree,my was it fun seeing my 6 wychs and a succubus sweeping advance my opponents 5 honor guard with Pedro kantor in it

40kenthusiast wrote:It's back, again? Answer is still Orcs, CSM, Chaos Daemons, with IG as a strong prospect that will join the top 3 if it can have a good showing at the 'Ard boyz and Big Waaagh/Necro.

Ard boyz should not be an indication of Top Tier for an army if its not a balanced point list. Ard boyz is basically APOC light. 40k is balanced at 1850.

for example IMO orks and Chaos Deamons codexes can dominate 1K points range. does that mean they are the best? No.

Of the Eldar builds, Mech Eldar has the best options for 5th edition play.

Lazarus.

40kenthusiast wrote:It's back, again? Answer is still Orcs, CSM, Chaos Daemons, with IG as a strong prospect that will join the top 3 if it can have a good showing at the 'Ard boyz and Big Waaagh/Necro.

What he said.

I have no idea why there is all of this love for IG when it is an untested codex. Until it wins consistently in national events, you can't be listed as top tier.

Also no Seer Council Eldar?

acreedon wrote:Can someone explain the khrone spam and dual lash thing. I had a khrone army last edition and i haven't gotten the new codex yet. Can i fix my army by getting 2 nurgle demone princes with lash??? what is lash?? sorry for being a bit of a noob.

but... if i could fix my army by just getting 2 demon princes and some oblits that would sweet

Lash lists and Khorne spam lists are two different things.

When I updated my 4th edition World Eaters to 5th edition Khorne I basically traded in my rhinos for land raiders and dropped my demons, as they got the big nerf in the current CSM codex. Basically run 3 Land raiders full of berzerkers and a demon prince or two or possibly a khorne lord on a bike. Kharne the betrayer is always nice.

For the lash list you run two or three squads of obliterators, plague marines in rhinos to hold objectives, and either 2 Demon princes or sorcerors with the lash power which allows you to move enemy non-vehicle units into LOS for your oblits. Also nice for moving bikes into dangerous terrain and forcing them to take a test on the turn you move them in and the turn they move out.

Blackmoor wrote:

40kenthusiast wrote:It's back, again? Answer is still Orcs, CSM, Chaos Daemons, with IG as a strong prospect that will join the top 3 if it can have a good showing at the 'Ard boyz and Big Waaagh/Necro.

What he said.

I have no idea why there is all of this love for IG when it is an untested codex. Until it wins consistently in national events, you can't be listed as top tier.

Also no Seer Council Eldar?

Lol,i agree Imp guard are way to overrated imo,basically since they've got a bunch of sparky new tanks it appears all 40k opposition is dead.

Also i will add the Seer Council List.

Also no Seer Council Eldar?

Most Mech Eldar lists do contain a Seer council - at least the "Top tier" variety do. It's also usually known as the "Super council" as it most often contains Eldrad & Yriel (or "counts as" characters like in my list)

Lazarus.

Hmm this is assuming the person isn't using a Avatar or possibly a phoenix lord?.

You missed a necron build, I have seen it done never tried it myself, Neczilla, 9 tomb spiders, the nightbringer, and as many warriors as you ca grab.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Crap 1 other one, Eldar Ghost Army
3 Wraith Lords
2 Wraithguard at 10 each with seer
2 wraithguard at 5 each in wave serpent,
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