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Ok Timmah, the question then because, when did it exist? If I remember right, the latest Tyranid codex it 4th edition. There is no "fast charge" in the fourth edition rule book as well (that I can find... if anyone can, please post it)... the only specific thing I can find in 5th edition is a rule on page 54 of the BRB) that states "Beast and cavalry are capable of making an especially fast assault to charge their enemies. When assaulting they move up to 12."

This is close to the same rule that the BGB states in its beast entry as well....

Arschbombe wrote:That's just slowed.

You are telling me? Tyranids are my only army.
I have a thornbacked carnifex and every model that could was based with rippers.

Now this, and again it's my own fault.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

s2ua7 wrote:This is close to the same rule that the BGB states in its beast entry as well....
"

Horseshoes? Handgrenades?

No. . . Warhammer 40k.

I realize its stupid and I am pretty sure any group of friends and probably even most TO's would allow it.

However that doesn't make it correct. In 4th ed there was such a thing as charging so a 12" charge was fine.

However, now charge has been replaced with assault. So things that reference special types of "charges" don't actually work anymore.

s2ua7 wrote:Ok Timmah, the question then because, when did it exist? If I remember right, the latest Tyranid codex it 4th edition. There is no "fast charge" in the fourth edition rule book as well (that I can find... if anyone can, please post it)... the only specific thing I can find in 5th edition is a rule on page 54 of the BRB) that states "Beast and cavalry are capable of making an especially fast assault to charge their enemies. When assaulting they move up to 12."

This is close to the same rule that the BGB states in its beast entry as well....
"

4th ed, Beasts and Cavalry section, page 57:
"Beasts and Cavalry are capable of making an especially FAST CHARGE to assault their enemies."

Also, at least one FAQ (Can't remember if they were "official" back then or not, but who really cares) stated that a model that charged 12" would double the highest die just like Beasts and Cavalry.

Timmah wrote:I realize its stupid and I am pretty sure any group of friends and probably even most TO's would allow it.

However that doesn't make it correct. In 4th ed there was such a thing as charging so a 12" charge was fine.

However, now charge has been replaced with assault. So things that reference special types of "charges" don't actually work anymore.

What is the difference between charging and assault then? When you read the beast entry, it talks about their assault, not their charge. In fact, in the index of the fourth edition rulebook, it lists assaults, but not charges. Thats where I am getting confused. I joined WH40k in 5th edition so I am not familiar with earlier rules, but I could not find charge taking the place of assault.

don_mondo wrote:Also, at least one FAQ (Can't remember if they were "official" back then or not, but who really cares) stated that a model that charged 12" would double the highest die just like Beasts and Cavalry.

Do you recall which one? I shall have to go read them all again to see if I can find anything helpful.
I would hate to see another biomorph senselessly ruined.

Truthfully, no difference, which is why most of us will indeed say, go for it, roll your 3d6 (due to Move Through Cover) and take the highest and double it to determine charge distance when your Leaping non-Beasts assault into difficult terrain.

With that said, charge and assault are different words, and a change in words can indicate a change in rules. Sooooo, there is currently no rules support for your Leaping non-Beasts to gain a Beast-like assault move, primarily due to that change of a single word. Just one of those things that happens when they change editions, happens every time (and I go back to 2nd ed).

And actually, Nids may not be the only ones in this boat. Have to check the phrasing, but Dark Eldar wyche drugs and Eversor assassin may also have this same problem.

"Q. What happens if a model that is allowed to
assault 12" due to combat drugs is affected by
difficult terrain?
A. The model rolls two dice and double sthe
result of the highest dice to determine how far it
can move, just like beasts & cavalry."
Not sure that helps (I am pretty sure it does not), but this led me to another gem for another thread.

Thanks, Kirsanth, you beat me to it.
OK, so Dark Eldar are covered (unofficially, by FAQ) and MOST of us would say that that answer could reasonably be applied to any other non-Beast that has a 12" assault/charge. But the nay-sayers will cry out that the answers in one FAQ apply only to that FAQ and may not cross over to other armies, along with the "FAQs aren't official" crowd.

Ahhhhh, for the good old days of Chapter Approved and "OFFICIAL" FAQs.......................

I would be one of those, generally speaking.
Not so much the "Not official" group, but yea. . .

I guess that is sort of obvious though, as I started this thread.

Heh, so you did, didn't you.............

Timmah wrote:But there is no such thing as a charge anymore. I realize you and your gaming group may play it differently.

However in a Rules forum I believe we should stick to the actual RAW when discussing rules. (hint: theres a proposed rules forum for house rules and such)

And per actual RAW charge =! assault.

Charge does equal assault. In 5th edition an assault is a 6" move that takes place during the assault phase and brings units into contact for close combat. The Nid codex was written for 4th edition when the 6" move in the assault phase that brought units into contact was called a charge. The game mechanic has not changed, it was just a name change. It is not at all like the deletion of the mechanic that counted models for outnumbering that affects biomorphs like thornback and symbiote rippers.

Yes, AB, charge = assault. Now find something that says that leaping assault/charge into difficult terrain gets to double their highest die............ That's the sticky bit. I think we all (or at least most of us) agree that they should get it, it's just supporting that belief.........

don_mondo wrote:Yes, AB, charge = assault. Now find something that says that leaping assault/charge into difficult terrain gets to double their highest die............ That's the sticky bit. I think we all (or at least most of us) agree that they should get it, it's just supporting that belief.........

I think you've hit the nail on the head there Don.... While it is relitively easy to support the charge = assault arguement, because the rule states they do not become beasts it is harder to justify the d6x2 arguement.

s2ua7 wrote:
I think you've hit the nail on the head there Don.... While it is relatively easy to support the charge = assault argument, because the rule states they do not become beasts it is harder to justify the d6x2 argument.

It's not hard to support or justify it at all. What you are having hard doing is realizing that your a huge pile of gak who can't spell.
Leaping grants the unit a 12" assault that uses the following rule when assaulting through difficult terrain: roll 2d6 (or 3d6) and multiply the highest by two.

This is not a matter of RAW or RAI it is a matter of GW sucks as writing rules. In extreme situations like this just go with what everyone knows is right, in the case of Tyranids it's 3d6 PTHx2, and not what you want it to be because you are a power gaming loser who throws a fit every time they are proven wrong. It's called being an adult. Also, go take a bath because I'm tired of going into a hobby store and having it smell like a trash can.
On a side note, whenever someone is actively trying to ruin an aspect of a game due to being a huge pile of gak they shall be called a "s2ua7."

Kwosge wrote:

s2ua7 wrote:
I think you've hit the nail on the head there Don.... While it is relatively easy to support the charge = assault argument, because the rule states they do not become beasts it is harder to justify the d6x2 argument.

It's not hard to support or justify it at all. What you are having hard doing is realizing that your a huge pile of gak who can't spell.
Leaping grants the unit a 12" assault that uses the following rule when assaulting through difficult terrain: roll 2d6 (or 3d6) and multiply the highest by two.

This is not a matter of RAW or RAI it is a matter of GW sucks as writing rules. In extreme situations like this just go with what everyone knows is right, in the case of Tyranids it's 3d6 PTHx2, and not what you want it to be because you are a power gaming loser who throws a fit every time they are proven wrong. It's called being an adult. Also, go take a bath because I'm tired of going into a hobby store and having it smell like a trash can.
On a side note, whenever someone is actively trying to ruin an aspect of a game due to being a huge pile of gak they shall be called a "s2ua7."

Ah I love new people coming into YMDC. Always good times.

Btw, YEA s2ua7 what a jerk. I'd punch you in the face for that!

Holy thread necromancy Batman!

Its only like a month old. And its better than starting a new thread on this topic.

Aye, thank you Timmah.

I'm being schooled in all the 'non' rules of Tyranids. The sweet sweet knowledge of a broken codex is becoming mine! (not getting bitter at all)

omg, do I get to report my own thread instead of my own posts now?

There is absolutely no reason to believe (non Beast) Tyranids with Leaping can assault with the x2 to the related die roll.

Even the 12" charge is . . . moot.
Being generally unsupported by the rules, even if no one I have ever met gets that on the first read.

Timmah wrote:

Kwosge wrote:

s2ua7 wrote:
I think you've hit the nail on the head there Don.... While it is relatively easy to support the charge = assault argument, because the rule states they do not become beasts it is harder to justify the d6x2 argument.

It's not hard to support or justify it at all. What you are having hard doing is realizing that your a huge pile of gak who can't spell.
Leaping grants the unit a 12" assault that uses the following rule when assaulting through difficult terrain: roll 2d6 (or 3d6) and multiply the highest by two.

This is not a matter of RAW or RAI it is a matter of GW sucks as writing rules. In extreme situations like this just go with what everyone knows is right, in the case of Tyranids it's 3d6 PTHx2, and not what you want it to be because you are a power gaming loser who throws a fit every time they are proven wrong. It's called being an adult. Also, go take a bath because I'm tired of going into a hobby store and having it smell like a trash can.
On a side note, whenever someone is actively trying to ruin an aspect of a game due to being a huge pile of gak they shall be called a "s2ua7."

Ah I love new people coming into YMDC. Always good times.

Btw, YEA s2ua7 what a jerk. I'd punch you in the face for that!

This is to both Kwosge and to Timmah, I would just like to know what the heck I did to get his attitude from both of you... I did not actually notice this post until it was revived, but I dont feel that I have said anything more than what some other people have said in the forums and do not feel that I should be flamed like that, especially by Kwosge swearing at me...

Edit: Weird, when I quote, it shows me what Kwosge actually typed... interesting...

s2ua7 wrote:Edit: Weird, when I quote, it shows me what Kwosge actually typed... interesting...

I love that part.

It took me a bit to realize where some of the "slang" came from too.

I dont mind disagrements or arguements, but the personal attacks are where I draw the line. Had I actually seen this when it originally was posted I would have prob. reported it as a personal attack and offensive, but seeing as this is over a month old its not worth getting worked up over, I would just like to know why/how what I said was offensive enough to name me as TFG (I know we are not supposed to use that here, ban me if you must, but I am just replying to how I have been refered to), and while I am sure that Timmah would not actually punch me in the face, it is disconcerting that Timmah would actually resort to violence over a rules interpretation discussion.

It was a joke s2ua7. I find it funny that not only did someone semi necro and old thread but they also got mad at you.

So I continued it on with the over the top violence and getting mad in a rules forum.

Sorry if that was not clear in my original post.



On a slightly funny note. I played a tyranid player a couple weeks ago. I was thinking about pulling this gem out on him just for a laugh.
"No sir, your hormogaunts do not assault 12", only 6". " But then I thought better of it.

Lol, thats my bad then Timmah, sarcasm does not translate well over forums, thats my bad really... I thought as much at first, but then when I hit reply I saw what the other guy said. I was a little confused as you and I have had discussions on other threads with no problem. As I said, it was a month old and I'm not concerned, glad to see that my original hunch was correct lol

kirsanth wrote:My thoughts too.
I have stopped paying for that recently.

And 5e killed the Hormagaunt.
^^

Hormagaunts aren't the issue. Hormagaunts are beasts. Just because they're also leaping doesn't take away the fact that they're beasts. The only time I think this would be any sort of issue is if you had leaping warriors or rippers.

Edited for clarification.

5e Killed the Hormagaunt for a lot of other different reasons

The intention of leaping is to give a 12 inch charge or assault but not to make them beasts. 12 inch charges roll 2d6 and pick the highest.

In the case of Hormagaunts since they have move through cover it would be 3d6 and pick the highest.

Hollismason wrote:The intention of leaping is to give a 12 inch charge

Wow, you must have written a lot of codex's to know all these intentions!

I can't find a "Fast Charge" USR in the fourth edition rule set. Sooooo, I'm thinking either Hormagaunts have a fast charge (of 12") or GW just wants to misdirect readers. Of course, some will adamantly (an irrationally) claim that GW did indeed intend to deliberately convinve people that hormagaunts can charge 12" even if that wasn't what the writers wanted.