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Kilkrazy wrote:I was amused that someone said Dr Hawking would have been left to die under the NHS if he was British, which is what Obama's health plan is going to do to America.

Do you really believe that KK?

I'm not sure from the post if your being sarcastic or not.

GG

usernamesareannoying wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

usernamesareannoying wrote:Here, let me get out my "lets blame bush for everything" easy button...

At least bush never bent over and kissed any foreign leaders asses and said America was wrong in regards to foreign policy aimed their way.

We'll see how much everyone loves Obama once he starts dipping into you paychecks to distribute your wealth to the people who are just too damn lazy to work.

We'll also see how much everyone loves him when all of the professionals in America leave or quit their practices because he is dictating what they can and cannot get paid.

Start to? Check out his approval ratings against other Presidents. He's worse than everyone in many years but Clinton for the same time period. Thats change I can believe in!

i miss slick willy.
so he got a hummer off an intern, big deal. his only mistake over the other presidents that behaved just as badly was the fact that he got caught...

Yea I could have cared less about that (except come on he could have done so much better, now Flowers thats a different story )
But don't forget Kosovo and and that whole not doing anything about Al Qaeda thing.

generalgrog wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:I was amused that someone said Dr Hawking would have been left to die under the NHS if he was British, which is what Obama's health plan is going to do to America.

Do you really believe that KK?

I'm not sure from the post if your being sarcastic or not.

GG

I should have quotationised it better.

I was amused that someone said "Dr Hawking would have been left to die under the NHS if he was British, which is what Obama's health plan is going to do to America."

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25924789-2703,00.html

Ahtman wrote:I think he's a good man doing what he thinks is best. Sometimes I agree with him and sometimes I don't. This is true of most Presidents though. He isn't a demon or a savior or really even a paradigm changer. He is a man and thus subject to the flaws and virtues of us all. Only he gets 24 hour news coverage and I do not, which is a shame really.

QFT.

"Note"
Ahtman, you do deserve 24 hour news coverage... why is the world so CRUEL???

Kilkrazy wrote:I should have quotationised it better.

I was amused that someone said "Dr Hawking would have been left to die under the NHS if he was British, which is what Obama's health plan is going to do to America."

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25924789-2703,00.html

This whole mess is just going to get messier isn't it... What exactly would be the difference for a person in Stephen Hawking's situation (I.Q. this + should have ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with getting treatment) living in the U.S. without healthcare? ...well, they die perhaps; or even become a complete vegetable incapable of any treatment whatsoever? Arguments like this are complete nonsense and these types of nit-picking madness are going to be what drives this country into a revolution.

You may think that sounds a bit lofty, but I guarantee if things continue to get worse in the U.S. there is going to be some serious problems. MOST of the people in the country are not rich, and they will be the ones that are facing the full force of the privatized insurance companies; the poor will not on the other hand will me too busy dying left and right (wait... they kinda are now though) due to the continuing debate and eventual collapse of this entire change. A big waste of time it is looking like.

I would be happier if they just scrapped it now, got out of Iraq, and created jobs for the rest of Obama's term. If he manages to do well enough at that maybe he will get a second term... wait, that actually could happen, regardless of people disliking him Bush got re-elected eh? Just throw some poor shmuck into the ring from the Reppies side, and he should go down by round one. Oh man, the U.S. bipolar political system can be so very effective at being ineffective sometimes; it is a tradition that has been building up for quite some time.

Oh well... I think Europe sounds like the place to be, the U.S. just has too many people and too many opinions for anything substantial to ever actually take place. We could get up and protest throughout the whole country... scratch that, I am going to just move to Europe .

Who knows he says facetiously? Thats part of the problem the only bill thats made it anywhere is complete gobbledygook and then he says things about the bill that are just plain not true.

Kilkrazy wrote:

generalgrog wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:I was amused that someone said Dr Hawking would have been left to die under the NHS if he was British, which is what Obama's health plan is going to do to America.

Do you really believe that KK?

I'm not sure from the post if your being sarcastic or not.

GG

I should have quotationised it better.

I was amused that someone said "Dr Hawking would have been left to die under the NHS if he was British, which is what Obama's health plan is going to do to America."

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25924789-2703,00.html

Thats a misquote. while there are problems of PC bias in the Health service, it mainly relates to the amount of money the NHS spends on health tourist cases, and sexuality related treatments such as free sex changes when compared to the substandard support for many wounded veterans. Now admittedly this can grate but there there is no real scare that being British means you get second rate treatment.

In any case the orignal quote was regarding some Americans belief that the NHS was substandard per se, because its a state provided service. This is just blatantly not true, NHS treatment is generally very good, though there have been some slippage in the standard of nursing recently, and some internal politicisation. But that is an inevitable side effect of the regime we are now living in and is not of itself the fault of the NHS.

Frazzled wrote:Who knows he says facetiously? Thats part of the problem the only bill thats made it anywhere is complete gobbledygook and then he says things about the bill that are just plain not true.

Throw it out, we have bigger fish to fry, and they taste a whole lot better. Am I the only one sick of this not going anywhere for such a long time? What an utter waste of our nation's time.

I like Obama just because he's supposed to give me like $7000 for buying a new house. If tax time comes and he doesn't pay up, I won't like him anymore.

Necros wrote:I like Obama just because he's supposed to give me like $7000 for buying a new house. If tax time comes and he doesn't pay up, I won't like him anymore.

this is how the majority of his positive approval rating folk think.
i loved the woman who was plastered all over the radio proclaiming how excited she was because Obama was gonna pay for her house, pay for her car, pay for everything and she didnt have to work.
the sad thing is you could tell she truly believed that this was going to happen.

People seem to like Obama for a lot of reasons, the main being is that he talks about "free" money, and people like to think that they will be able to live out of the governments pocket... Oddly enough this pocket is actually linked into YOUR pocket, and this money is not imaginary; well most of the time it isn't .

hehe I was being partially serious I know I qualify for the new home buyer credit, but I'm not expecting much. I dunno what it takes to get that full $7000 if it's even possible, I bought a 1 bedroom condo

if I can get $1000 out of uncle sam I'll be a happy camper, then I'll do the "wise" thing and turn around and blow it all on army men

You won't get a net tax break if any of the items proposed or passed by the House are approved. Sorry.
On the positive mandating universal health insurance means all you youngins get to help pay for my medical needs. Thanks!

Orlanth wrote:This is just blatantly not true, NHS treatment is generally very good, though there have been some slippage in the standard of nursing recently, and some internal politicisation. But that is an inevitable side effect of the regime we are now living in and is not of itself the fault of the NHS.

It's interesting the amount of misinformation there is over here. Just about everyone of my republican friends keep talking about "all of those" Brits and Canadians that don't like/hate their NHS system yet they don't personally know any one of them.

GG

generalgrog wrote:

Orlanth wrote:This is just blatantly not true, NHS treatment is generally very good, though there have been some slippage in the standard of nursing recently, and some internal politicisation. But that is an inevitable side effect of the regime we are now living in and is not of itself the fault of the NHS.

It's interesting the amount of misinformation there is over here. Just about everyone of my republican friends keep talking about "all of those" Brits and Canadians that don't like/hate their NHS system yet they don't personally know any one of them.

GG

But they have anecdotal evidence! ANECDOTAL! You can't can't argue with that.

I do. I work for a Canadian company. From them- its great for youngin I broke my leg waugh waugh stuff but sucks for real cankillyou medical stuff.

Frazzled wrote:I do. I work for a Canadian company. From them- its great for youngin I broke my leg waugh waugh stuff but sucks for real cankillyou medical stuff.

Explain. I need examples.

GG

Waiting time for advanced medical testing equipment is substantially longer than the US average. "Elective" surguries (in the example back surgery) not covered. Newer cancer fighting medicines were not available. One came down to yankee land for heart surgery because couldn't get the type there in under six months and he would have been you know, dead.

Having said that routine care was cheaper and precription costs were very minimal. 30s or under seemed to like it and it appeared to do well with pregnancy issues.

Much less contact with UK-have an office. NO ONE there liked it.

Frazzled wrote:Waiting time for advanced medical testing equipment is substantially longer than the US average. "Elective" surguries (in the example back surgery) not covered. Newer cancer fighting medicines were not available. One came down to yankee land for heart surgery because couldn't get the type there in under six months and he would have been you know, dead.

Having said that routine care was cheaper and precription costs were very minimal. 30s or under seemed to like it and it appeared to do well with pregnancy issues.

Much less contact with UK-have an office. NO ONE there liked it.

I can give you examples in our system where elective surgeries arn't covered by insurance either. Things like gastric bypass, and lasic aren't covered. Sleep apnea studies, autism care sometimes arn't covered either. I have heard stories of our illustrious American system trying to deny people cancer treatments, because "So and so doesn't really need a 3rd treatment, he's allready had 2, and thats enough".

GG

Frazzled: On the positive mandating universal health insurance means all you youngins get to help pay for my medical needs. Thanks!

I'm all for a shaving off a small part of my income keeping you on the shelf long after your expiration date.
Your like one of those refrigerator pigs from the 80s, but for opening political threads instead of opening the frige.
::political thread opens:: [Frazzled: ***squeeeee squeeeee***] - it helps keep our pundit spare-tire down, or at least makes us feel guilty about it

So 10 thumbs up for giving you a long time to paint your minis!
You'll also be able to let my great-grand-kids know whether or not years dilate as you approach the speed of old.

Lasic won't kill you
gastric bypass won't kill you
sleep apnea won't kill you
autism won't kill you (can't do anything about it)
Waiting 1-2 months for an MRI can kill you.

But here's the joyous nonsensical part of this. Dems/Repubs acting like its yea or nay. Thats an utter falsehood and the fundamental problem. Instead of getting some brains together, getting tiger teams together to assess the good and bad of other countries, to carefully craft the best solution for the least cost, they drop a 1,000 joke at us. Then they lie.

The same as TARP
The same as the emergency "economic spending package" that hasn't spent 10% of the money to date and is just the world's largest pork barrel project
The same as the budget
The same as cap and trade which is so full of loopholes as to be a joke.

All pushed through fast. All are jokes on the American people. This summarizes it best:







Automatically Appended Next Post:

Belphegor wrote:
You'll also be able to let my great-grand-kids know whether or not years dilate as you approach the speed of old.

Pah I can answer that now.

YES.

Frazzled wrote:Lasic won't kill you
gastric bypass won't kill you
sleep apnea won't kill you
autism won't kill you (can't do anything about it)
Waiting 1-2 months for an MRI can kill you.

But here's the joyous nonsensical part of this. Dems/Repubs acting like its yea or nay. Thats an utter falsehood and the fundamental problem. Instead of getting some brains together, getting tiger teams together to assess the good and bad of other countries, to carefully craft the best solution for the least cost, they drop a 1,000 joke at us. Then they lie.

The same as TARP
The same as the emergency "economic spending package" that hasn't spent 10% of the money to date and is just the world's largest pork barrel project
The same as the budget
The same as cap and trade which is so full of loopholes as to be a joke.

All pushed through fast. All are jokes on the American people. This summarizes it best:







Automatically Appended Next Post:

Belphegor wrote:
You'll also be able to let my great-grand-kids know whether or not years dilate as you approach the speed of old.

Pah I can answer that now.

YES.

Were you being ironic because all the things you listed can be life threatening, especially sleep apnea, not having gastric bypass, and undiagnosed/untreated autism.

MRIs can wait, those with conditions conducive to being solely diagnosed go to the front of the line, all those who need an MRI to prove a condition problematic wait. That is how it would be done under an American NHS, that is the way it is done now.

The one thing I always find funny is how so few American's know how this system works, I suppose that's why your all up in arms, because you have no idea what is/has been going on.

And as for Obama. I love him! I don't like some of his ideas with his healthcare reform, I'd like him to initiate a government run healthcare service. But this is a start to that. Maybe after Obama's two terms a Republican president will seal the deal for me.

Ahtman wrote:

generalgrog wrote:

Orlanth wrote:This is just blatantly not true, NHS treatment is generally very good, though there have been some slippage in the standard of nursing recently, and some internal politicisation. But that is an inevitable side effect of the regime we are now living in and is not of itself the fault of the NHS.

It's interesting the amount of misinformation there is over here. Just about everyone of my republican friends keep talking about "all of those" Brits and Canadians that don't like/hate their NHS system yet they don't personally know any one of them.

GG

But they have anecdotal evidence! ANECDOTAL! You can't can't argue with that.

By that 'logic' it must therefore be true.

Lasic, you mean lasik as in cosmetic laser surgery so I don't have to wear glasses? How the feth is that life threatening? nonsense.

A gastric bypass is done when you're obese.

An MRI can wait? You don't have a clue.

Lasik isn't life threatening of course...

but Morbid obesity is
Sleep apnea can lead to life threatening heart conditions not to mention falling asleep behind a semi truck.
Autism isn't life threatening per se, but some forms can be treated with therapies to make the individual with autism overcoem their disability. For example asbergers can become normal productive adults if treatment starts early enough.

GG

I am all for Obama

Just thought I'd put that out there! I'd never voted before, and I'm part of the group that registered to vote for him. I don't agree with everything he's done, but I'm very happy with my decision to vote for him, and for the most part I support what he's done.

More than the specifics, I was very happy with the way he carried himself through a difficult period for our nation regarding the economy, military, etc... a steady hand at the tiller (or at least, giving that strong impression) goes a long way towards solving our problems, imho. Especially problems like the economy that are worsened by consumer fear...

Anyway, just my $0.02

Obama is a great politician and this adminstration is a significant upgrade over Bush and Cheney. Its also a great relief to have a president that doesn't sound, act, or pretend to be a cowboy and I'm a Texan. Bush may be a good public speaker when the cameras are off but when they're on he provides a smorgasbord worth of idiotic quotes. Hell has there ever been a president that has had as many movies, books, TV shows, plays (Will Ferrel ftw), etc. that was based around belittling and caricaturing one?

National health care is also a plan that should've been in place a long time ago and hopefully we'll start to finally catch up with the rest of the world. As a military brat whose also an injured Marine; not having to worry about medical expenses was a great quality in my family's life and one that should be extended to all.

The worst thats happened in Obama's adminstration is just the amount of partisan nonsense coming from the right. I'm no Democrat but I don't think the Repubs can ever dig out of the hole they've laid for themselves after the Bush Dynasty, Iraq Wars, Palin, etc.

Frazzled wrote:Lasic, you mean lasik as in cosmetic laser surgery so I don't have to wear glasses? How the feth is that life threatening? nonsense.

A gastric bypass is done when you're obese.

An MRI can wait? You don't have a clue.

In certain situations lasik is used to remove certain eye defects that cause sudden visual impairment. In a world were everyday people pilot very deadly blocks of metal at upwars of 70 miles an hour it can be dangerous. Although to be honest I really didn't mean lasics is that deadly.

Yes, gastric bypass surgery is performed mainly on the obese. I'm glad you know that.

Yes an M.R.I. can wait Frazz. It isn't necessary for everyone who is told by a doctor they need an M.R.I. to go out and receive one immediately. Those that need one immediately receive one immediately at the hospital. It's why it takes so long to get one electively. I don't really think you know what your talking about right here, so don't be so hostile.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

generalgrog wrote:
Sleep apnea can lead to life threatening heart conditions not to mention falling asleep behind a semi truck.

Just so we're clear, you know that Sleep Apnea is the cessation of breathing while asleep right?

generalgrog wrote:Lasik isn't life threatening of course...

but Morbid obesity is
Sleep apnea can lead to life threatening heart conditions not to mention falling asleep behind a semi truck.
Autism isn't life threatening per se, but some forms can be treated with therapies to make the individual with autism overcoem their disability. For example asbergers can become normal productive adults if treatment starts early enough.

GG

None of that compares to not getting a speedy MRI. If you wait and you have certain types of cancer, you're dead.

Again, you don't know what you're talking about.

Cane wrote:Obama is a great politician and this adminstration is a significant upgrade over Bush and Cheney. Its also a great relief to have a president that doesn't sound, act, or pretend to be a cowboy and I'm a Texan. Bush may be a good public speaker when the cameras are off but when they're on he provides a smorgasbord worth of idiotic quotes. Hell has there ever been a president that has had as many movies, books, TV shows, plays (Will Ferrel ftw), etc. that was based around belittling and caricaturing one?

National health care is also a plan that should've been in place a long time ago and hopefully we'll start to finally catch up with the rest of the world. As a military brat whose also an injured Marine; not having to worry about medical expenses was a great quality in my family's life and one that should be extended to all.

The worst thats happened in Obama's adminstration is just the amount of partisan nonsense coming from the right. I'm no Democrat but I don't think the Repubs can ever dig out of the hole they've laid for themselves after the Bush Dynasty, Iraq Wars, Palin, etc.

That was refreshing to hear. I do admire how genuinely active Obama has been in the international scene. Perhaps he will not achieve much in one term, but I doubt that his next term hinges on this health-care bill alone. He also appears to be under ENORMOUS amounts of pressure that most presidents only face once or twice in their whole career; this could be how he plans to tackle some issues, although it is not directly head-on he appears to be a relatively down-to-earth guy.

Typeline wrote:Just so we're clear, you know that Sleep Apnea is the cessation of breathing while asleep right?

Yes..good point.

GG