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Well if an army is built off Skull Pass, then it's going to be a Goblin army. It seems that NGs are more popular than standard O&G, and Azhag isn't a Goblin.

However, that's not to say Skull Pass is the only way to build an O&G army. I built my Black Orc army out of normal boxes and Ebay purchases (with some help from my friends).

*sigh here i go again , putting so much effort in responding to you when i dont know if you are serious or not.

Dwarfs aside , Rules Templates Aside , Trolls , Heroes aside , Lets just look at skull pass price
compared to their box set counter parts. Every skull pass , they lose the sale of $120 - $75 USD alone ( not even including the others ^ )

Goblins are SO cheap , a skull pass goblin cannot add to a full army. That will not stop ANY Orc and Goblin players
from buying skull pass units to fill out / replace the goblin box sets.

You can nit pick about army list if you want , you just have to realize a simple fact.

Any current O&G army player that want to field goblins will NOT buy the $30 box sets.
They WILL instead buy skull pass , and when they do , GW will lose $ in sales for the difference of the 2 types .

They don't lose anything. They gain whatever the profit is from Skull Pass.

H.B.M.C. wrote:They don't lose anything. They gain whatever the profit is from Skull Pass.

Yes they do gain profit from skull pass.
but the "difference" is what they lost
when the box set is what the customers "could have" purchased.

LunaHound wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:They don't lose anything. They gain whatever the profit is from Skull Pass.

Yes they do gain profit from skull pass.
but the "difference" is what they lost
when the box set is what the customers "could have" purchased.

Which does not, I'm afraid, include a quite important factor. Many, if not most, people buying the boxed set of SP will be new players, who then get to build full armies. So there is, in addition to your 'hypothetical maximised profit not extracted' also a sizeable 'hypothetical customer base further expanded'. So the SP box actually generates a shadow profit that isnt' in plain sight.

And yeah, that guy on the wyvern is expensive.

And I reckon there are more players who buy the Black Mines of Skull Reach Pass box, are in the hobby for 18 months, then leave than there are people carefully buying up sets to craft Goblin and Dwarf armies.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Which does not, I'm afraid, include a quite important factor. Many, if not most, people buying the boxed set of SP will be new players, who then get to build full armies. So there is, in addition to your 'hypothetical maximised profit not extracted' also a sizeable 'hypothetical customer base further expanded'. So the SP box actually generates a shadow profit that isnt' in plain sight.
And yeah, that guy on the wyvern is expensive.

If new players buy SP , thats normal and expected profit.

Im talking about the existing O&G players that want to make a choice.
"Should i spend $75 on SP , or spend $120 on the SP's equivalent of contents in box sets " ( which again doesnt even include the 60% bulk from rest of the army )

And none of that has anything to do with the pricing of Azhag.

H.B.M.C. wrote:And none of that has anything to do with the pricing of Azhag.

I gave my reason of believing it does in page 1 .
This is another hype similar to Spear of Sicarius imo , but this time atleast they make something impressive looking enough
to tempt the customers.

LunaHound wrote:
If new players buy SP , thats normal and expected profit.

Im talking about the existing O&G players that want to make a choice.
"Should i spend $75 on SP , or spend $120 on the SP's equivalent of contents in box sets " ( which again doesnt even include the 60% bulk from rest of the army )

No Luna, I am referring to the projected profit that is generated by a new player coming to the game via the SP box and then going on to buy other units. The lower price or percieved 'value for money' of the SP or AoBR are designed to act in a similar way to a loss leader product, except there is no financial loss to the company.

So a couple of kids are bought SP, they then go on to buy OnG army and Dwarf armies (or even better for GW, decide on two entirely different armies) and new revenue is created by new players brought into the fold. It is the money they will go on to spend after the product that is important to GW with the introductory boxes.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
No Luna, I am referring to the projected profit that is generated by a new player coming to the game via the SP box and then going on to buy other units. The lower price or percieved 'value for money' of the SP or AoBR are designed to act in a similar way to a loss leader product, except there is no financial loss to the company.

So a couple of kids are bought SP, they then go on to buy OnG army and Dwarf armies (or even better for GW, decide on two entirely different armies) and new revenue is created by new players brought into the fold. It is the money they will go on to spend after the product that is important to GW with the introductory boxes.

I understood what you meant when you first said it earlier .
I just dont think the "starter" type of OnG players would be stable enough to earn back the "difference" Skull Pass have made
since it was introduced.

LunaHound wrote:
I just dont think the "starter" type of OnG players would be stable enough to earn back the "difference" Skull Pass have made
since it was introduced.

So this bit from page 1 wasn't a joke:

LunaHound wrote:Guys , i present you the answer to GW's solution to "attempt to make money back" from Ppl building all their O&G armies based on Skull Pass , instead of the normal box sets.

???

Fafnir wrote:So, is this thing going to be the new Steamtank? Who the hell had the idea to make the thing out of metal?

It never would've made it's productions costs back if they'd made it out of plastic, so metal actually was the best choice possible.

So metal's cheaper then plastic to make a model??

Yes. Metal models use a soft mold, which wears out relatively quickly, but is cheap to make. This allows you to have detail on the model such as undercuts, which cannot be done with a solid mold. That makes metal ideal for high detail models that will sell in low numbers, like an orc character riding a wyvern.

A plastic-injection mold is usually made out of steel, and while it wears out very slowly, it's also very expensive to make in the first place. You want to use something like that for models which you know you will sell a lot of, because it takes a much larger volume of sales to make your money back.

with an iron fist wrote:

LunaHound wrote:
I just dont think the "starter" type of OnG players would be stable enough to earn back the "difference" Skull Pass have made
since it was introduced.

So this bit from page 1 wasn't a joke:

LunaHound wrote:Guys , i present you the answer to GW's solution to "attempt to make money back" from Ppl building all their O&G armies based on Skull Pass , instead of the normal box sets.

???

Aw , so you guys think its just an coincidence that out of the whole warhammer line ,
Night / Goblin box set and spider rider box set happens to be the only ones that have price lowered from $35 down to $30?
which coincidentally have their counterparts in skull pass? not to mention people dont take goblins because no Fanatics?

Not a coincidence guys.

LunaHound wrote:
Aw , so you guys think its just an coincidence that out of the whole warhammer line ,
Night / Goblin box set and spider rider box set happens to be the only ones that have price lowered from $35 down to $30?
which coincidentally have their counterparts in skull pass?

You think that was because of the Battle for Skull Pass? No! GW gave the standard retail box night goblins movement 10 (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat50032&prodId=prod840895) and they want to sell them out so new one's can be sold with correct stats. This way a limited number of people will have these obscenely fast green beasties and no one else. Only a select few are aware of this secret power unit!

To keep it on the down low, they priced Goblins the same - as Goblins are NOT in the Battle for Skull Pass box set.

LunaHound wrote:
not to mention people dont take goblins because no Fanatics?

While the simplest logic would conceive that Night Goblins are the unit of choice in armies built out of Battle for Skull Pass boxed sets because said boxes compliment of infantry Goblins are Night-variety only... there is the alternative. That Orc &/or Night/regular Goblin players take Night-Goblins to play Night Goblin Roulette. Unlike it's Russian counterpart the most dangerous aspect with this dice roll is the direction a little plastic toy moves (and the subsequent tantrums from either party involved in the game). People who opt for this setup are "danger seekers" of the Warhammer World, and while not an immediate cause for concern - we suggest you explain the superior qualities of the basic Goblin (better armor, higher leadership). Should the player begin to worsen, fixating on "playing the dice" and going so far as to place their pump wagons behind allied units to "see what'll happen", please do not walk, but run to your nearest shelter, lock the doors, and do like the horse on Ren and Stimpy says - call the police.

*end horrible gag reel*

LunaHound wrote:
Not a coincidence guys.

But there are coincidences! The starter box set increased in price to $75 (again). Furthermore Azhag is one of 29 Hero/Lord models for the Orc & Goblin line, and is probably the last one that people who bought boxes of Battle for Skull Pass to build their army with would purchase due to price-point and in all likelihood it being completely out of sync with the night-goblin theme their army otherwise consists of. As a result it is easy enough to posit that your initial statement about Azhag being the way GW could generate the revenues that the mass purchase of Battle for Skull Pass boxed sets failed to obtain thanks entirely to your assumption that the people who purchased so many boxes would've purchased the regular retail boxes (be it immediately or eventually so long as it's within the same period) is erroneous. Given that you don't know the manufacturing costs of any of these products let alone the sales that would've taken place had there been no Battle for Skull Pass, you can't really determine the revenue difference for these alternative goods selling in place of the standard goods.

Your arguments have been voided, thanks for playing!