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Sirius42 wrote:Hey GWAR don't have my templar dex with me but I seem to remember something about initiates and HQ being able to take LRC, so they cant get in them, so what, pushes up the model count if im right... (big if)

They can only take Transports if the whole unit can fit into it. As 10 Initiates and 10 Neophytes is 20 models, and 10 Initiates and 5 Neophytes and a LRC is only 16 models, I used the previous option

Never mind then. this list thing of yours is a fun way to kill half an hour or so by the way.

Gwar! wrote:In 8th place are:
The Sexy Dark Eldar (Wych Cult) [298 Models]
[Insert something funny about bewbies here]

You, sir, are full of win and awesome.

Gwar! wrote:Average High End Points Cost:9000.04 Points

So Cool. Thanks Gwar, this is a good read.

Iboshi2 wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Average High End Points Cost:9000.04 Points

So Cool. Thanks Gwar, this is a good read.

The Average points cost...

ITS OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ahhh, infinite Chaos Space Marines & Daemons for the Win! XD

So... does this mean we win the "who wins a the end of 40k" threads?

darkkt wrote:So... does this mean we win the "who wins a the end of 40k" threads

Yes

Ok, finaly finished fixing the errors found by you lovely people. Many thanks to Kitzz (for pointing out Necron and IG Mistakes), Orkestra (for the Eldar Mistakes), Thor665 (for... um... what was that army again... mistakes), starbomber109 (for the Ork mistakes) and skipmcne (for pointing out a Tau Empire typo).

Now, here is an Idea, for my next 2 lists, I will do "Da list wot got da mos' dakka!" and "Da list wot got da mos' choppy bitz!" (If you don't speak ork, it's the most number of shots and most number of CC attacks)

What do you guys think?

Yay 20 Khorne Zerkers charging for the win!

In all seriousness, I think considering the most attacks etc is fine, but you might need to weight your results by WS/BS and St.

So guard might be the shootiest, but BS3 St 3 means they miss half the time.

Alternative to weighting, scale them all against a MEQ for effectiveness.

Those sound incredibly difficult, but would be interesting. Incredibly difficult because of counter-attack and mandate/icon/helmofruss madness. Pretty sure guard will win again (or, of course, chaos by the same loophole).

Kitzz wrote:(or, of course, chaos by the same loophole).

Oh well, I guess from now on I am not gonna let chaos use that loophole anymore

Hehe this is cool! nice idea Gwar. I didn't get it at first, but then I did and went straight on AB to build the craziest SM army I could!
It's got over 70 thunder hammers in it mainly carried by the thirty vanguard, who all have two each! (those squads come in at 960 each with jumpacks) (don't know when they use their meltabombs though)

It's silly but fun!

You really do have waaaaaaay too much time on your hands don't you?

Ozymandias wrote:You really do have waaaaaaay too much time on your hands don't you?

Yup, More than you'll ever know.

I also found out how to reinstall Army builder without having to ring Lone Wolf, so I am chuffed

So what say you? Shall I work out what army has "Da Most Dakka" or shall I do "Most Dakka in 1000, 1500 and 2000 points"? Or shall I do both?

Well I got to the Ravenwing army in your first post and then I realized that if I continued to read my brain would bleed out of my ears so you can do whichever one kills the most time for you.

Hey guys, just a quick note to let you know I have updated it with Space Wolves (Except the statistics part) and am working on migrating these to the Articles system as well

I'm a little concerned with the 'most dakka' / 'most CC attacks' ideas, just because they seem a little bit tied to model count. I mean, considering the number of shots that, for example, shootaboyz can put out, it seems like armies that can field more models end up wiv more dakka.

I understand that adding in other factors (BS/S) would make it exponentially tougher, though. And I would happily read a less 'complex' version.

Just thinkin' out loud (more after I return from supper)

Orkestra wrote:I'm a little concerned with the 'most dakka' / 'most CC attacks' ideas, just because they seem a little bit tied to model count. I mean, considering the number of shots that, for example, shootaboyz can put out, it seems like armies that can field more models end up wiv more dakka.

I understand that adding in other factors (BS/S) would make it exponentially tougher, though. And I would happily read a less 'complex' version.

Just thinkin' out loud (more after I return from supper)

Please, I am always craving for more And Model Count is not neccicarily equal to Dakka, Attacks or even points cost. For example, orks have Grotz cause they haz more models, but Shootas can put out a LOT more dakka, even with less models. Likewise, Nob Bikers are less models but FAR MORE expensive than Burnas.

Maybe the most dakka with the smallest model count, most dakka in largest model count.

That's a good point, Lord loss.

@Gwar: I understand that effectiveness vs points cost is a difference, but it's unavoidable that 180 shoota boys are going to be putting out 360 shots. Which is tough for other armies to match (especially at a given points level). Sheer volume of shots is going to go to the armies that can put more bodies with assault 2 (or rapid fire, I suppose) guns on the field. I forsee, in a straight up volume of fire competition, IG taking the cake. Why?

Gwar! himself wrote:In this current iteration, you are able to fit a massive 144 models per platoon.

So, in a single FoC slot you can get 144 las(gun/pistol)s. Even toying around with points, there's no way, say, Necrons can match that. Not at the points Necrons are paying for one rapid firing Warrior (as their most dakkaful option, no less). Basically, what it comes down to is that we're going to be looking at basic infantry in most cases. Sure, there might be some variation, but let's look at, say, Orks (who I'm most familiar with) Basically, it comes down to the fact that shoota boys are 3 points per shot. You can't get that level of points-efficiency from any other option in the codex. Since, on a purely shot-per-point basis, nothing else comes close, even the 'more dakka' upgrades like making 3 of them into Big shootas (those models are 3.66 points per shot. Less efficient) It's the same pretty much across the board. With eldar you can take guardians at 4 points per shot (even taking a weapon platform is a wash, even the 5 point 3 shot S-Can is basically adding one shot to a guardian for 5 points, less efficient). Which beats out Dire Avengers, who at 6 points per shot have 'less dakka' but kill things better. This is the problem, because more shots basically equals more grunts. Though it would be interesting to see Deathwing and such, where each shot comes at a premium, so other options have a chance of being more efficient.


So, what could be interesting, as stated before would be a comparison of most MEQ/GEQ/TEQ kills per turn, per army. But then you get into the wildly different optimization that occurs to kill each archetype AND you face the joy of mathhammering templates. ("so, it scatters 0-8 inches, has a 2.5" radius, the average squad is X models large, spaced at 2" coherency...")

So really, what seems a simple option (most shots/templates (speaking of which, how many shots is a template worth, anyway?)) can become very, very complex if you let overthinkers like myself at it.

Really, though, the goal with all of this extension and refinement of the terms is just to rank them based on not just sheer number, but worth on the tabletop in some conceivable fashion. Which seems like an erroneous attempt, given the average 9000 points per force org of this latest Wondificent Army Roster. (p.s. I totally love the demi-word 'wondificent' A+)


I've been doing some more thinking while writing this post, and it occurs to me that maybe maxing out on basic troops isn't such a no-brainer for every army (though it still is for many) just because the dirt-cheap 2 shot troops probably won't fill all of your points up (E.G. best Eldar army includes 120 Guardians, but that's only 960 points, and after that dakka becomes less of a no-brainer. (btw I've turned into you. The second best option are 2x Scatter Laser war walkers with 7.5 points per shot. at 540 points, you're still missing some from the 2K list, so you fill it with Swooping Hawks who, with their Exarch with his lovely assault 6 gun get a shot per every 9.9(rounded) points spent(they also get one large blast, which I suppose counts as one shot). HQ wise you'd go with a naked farseer, who is your most expensive shot by far (55 points per shot, ow (granted Maugan Ra has a better points per shot, but it's still more points for less shots. I mean, you can get 40 guardian shots for the cost of him)) This is ridiculously thrilling, and I see why you write these now. )

So I say do basic number of shots. Now that I've seen what goes into it, I feel like it's compelling and rich enough without needing any sort of 'MEQ wounds' qualifier. Run with it, Gwar!, run with it!

Spotted a flaw with the blood angels, the death company is maximum 10 man, while you have 14. nothing major,but almost puts them at the same as daemonhunters.

Interesting work.

Xenith wrote:Spotted a flaw with the blood angels, the death company is maximum 10 man, while you have 14. nothing major,but almost puts them at the same as daemonhunters.

Interesting work.

Sorry, that's incorrect. The Death Company is limited to a max of 10 models you can BUY. So for example, if you have 4 free DC Models, you can only buy 6 extra. Free Models may cause the unit to go above 10 just fine

These are always a fun read. Can't wait for the next iteration.

Ok, Added Space Wolves and fixed the statistics along with a few typos and formatting errors.

Once again thank you all for reading it, And I can inform you now I am going to be working on "The Most Points possible to put into a Single FoC" next. While it may overlap with this list a bit, for some armies the results will be drastically different (Black Templars and Orks come to mind )

That's a cool idea, and with Nobz out there Orks can definitely generate a point sink.

Only one word for it.
gWAR!!!

So, Hai Guise!

Sorry about the delay, but I have updated the original post to take into account the new codexes, as well to fix a few errors that crept in.

Apologies for bumping an old thread, but I felt it was better to bump than to just repost!

I am working on a Largest Points FoC List, maybe, if I can be bothered, so keep an eye out for that Soon!

I think we have an answer to the largest points FoC.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/289819.page

Pointwise:


1) Blood Angels: 25746
2) Imperial Guard: 25359
3) Space Marines: 12230
4) Space Wolves: 12220
5) Black Templars: 11562
6) Chaos Space Marines: 10760
7) Orks: 10365
8) Witch Hunters: 10060
9) Tyranids: 9965
10) Daemon Hunters: 9246
11) Tau Empire: 8745
12) Dark Angels: 8540
13) Eldar: 8217
14) Dark Eldar: Kabal 7774 / Wych Cult 7990
15) Chaos Daemons: 6495
16) Necrons: 5385

Awww :(

Oh well. Suggestions are open then to what GWAR #3 should be!

How about smallest/largest model count and highest/lowest points cost from a maximum £100 budget (assuming all prices are RRP)?

I'd do this myself only I don't own all the codices

About the Ork elites:
Wouldn't 10 nobs with an ammo runt each be a bigger unit?