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Granted, that's true. And according to their codex, they respect races like the Kroot, who willingly joined the Empire. Kroot warriors are respected for their skills. An interesting point is, that the Kroot's carnivorous/cannibalistic habits disgust the Tau; however, the Tau don't force the Kroot to stop it or simply threaten them with something so they stop it - they simply hope that being near to the Tau society and the Tau culture will show them that their tribal behaviour is inferior to the Greater Good way of living. Which means, don't eat your relatives.

This approach is as sensible and diplomatic and respectful as it gets around 40k.

However, as already stated, the races and people that don't want to join the Empire are killed. I can see the reasoning behind this - the guy who doesn't want to join the Empire is very probably an enemy of some kind or might cause harm to the Empire - but preventive genocide is not really something I'd file under "good".

They are not perfectly good, but as good as it gets in 40k, I think. Better than 'nids, 'crons, chaos, orks, dark eldar...maybe better than Eldar, not sure about that. (Eldar wanting their planets back ask you to leave and kill you only if you don't do it...somewhat comparable to "join or die".) Maybe comparable to the Imperium of Man, maybe slightly better.

PS: This suddendly reminds me of Eddie Izzard...."join or die" is basically the same as "CAKE OR DEATH?!" (The Imperium of Man is out of cake, though, so your choice is "OR DEATH", of course. )

LunaHound wrote:
If Tau are commies

then Space Marine are Nazis. they purge every xeno!

Nah, the Tau are just as dirty but do have much better information control covering up the purgings.

Orks know the diffrence between good and evil, good is a unending war and evil is everyother posaible outcome of a conflict


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I also paly agianst the fish'eads all the time they are evil incarnate and shoot too well

Ehm... I really resent the arguement that Tau are Commies

Since when is a CASTE SYSTEM a Communist idea? The division of Labour was something Marx was AGAINST

They strike me as far more inspired by Confucian ideas...

But anyhoo, as for good/evil: Neutral

They are misguided and whilst their ideology seems harmonious and good; it's implied that internally the Empire is fragile; the Caste system means you are limited to a certain life by your birth right, breeding is controlled... the Etherals CONTROL PEOPLE via pheremones...

Generally Tau society is opressive because they seek order, and their naeivity when formulating their ideology left them unprepared for necessities such as sterilization... and general murder.

When I read the Ciaphas Cain novel where he encountered the Tau: They seemed like a terrifying opponent: A cold, expressionless calculating military machine (though you could always stop them from shooting you by yelling "THIS DOES NOT SERVE THE GREATER GOOD!")

I think tau, the Imperium, and eldar or the only races that could concieveably reach a point of peace in the 40k universe, (if they could manage to kill off every other race but themselves). Where as the other factions of 40k don't seem to like the whole peace idea. Maybe orks, if the brainboyz could come back and keep em in line. Also i think orks probably can't understand peace or care about good and evil since they were bred soley for killing and war. Maybe orks are'nt "evil" since they're just doing what they were designed to do?

I voted "good" for tau simply because if they could somehow manage to get everyone to buy into the whole greater good deal, they could achieve peace and harmony throughout the galaxy, maybe even without killing every other species. But thats not any fun is it?

The best way to explain orks is that they are like a machine left on and no one know where the off switch is, they were created to fight the necrons and with the old onez gone( they are the brain boyz) no one has the real know how to make them obey a nongreenskin, so peace is inconcivable to them cause thier function dosnt need it.

In 40k there is no real good or bad, just different points of views. I am a tau player and like them because they are coalition of different alien species as compared to usual single species armies. The whole join us or die thing can be considered to be evil, but with the 40k verse this is not to bad, as they are giving you a choice to join them (there is always a choice, sometimes the other choice really sucks). I do have one question, other than the dawn of war computer game, is there any other record of the Tau sterilizing humans? I have read a good amount of the tau fluff and have not found any other references to this act.

Henners91 wrote:Ehm... I really resent the argument that Tau are Commies

Since when is a CASTE SYSTEM a Communist idea? The division of Labour was something Marx was AGAINST

Since Marx and Engels actually.

They are misguided and whilst their ideology seems harmonious and good; it's implied that internally the Empire is fragile; the Caste system means you are limited to a certain life by your birth right, breeding is controlled... the Etherals CONTROL PEOPLE via pheremones...

If the Tau were good they wouldn't need to be control (regardless of method use) or be divided by caste.

Have there been any tau that has been corrupted by chaos? Are they some how immune?? But they want to sterilize humanity....
So much for the greater good.

They're not immune, but being a small race less attuned to the warp than humans or eldar and under a strictly regimented lifestyle they're not really the type to have daemons associating with them. They wouldn't get anywhere.

guardpiper wrote:In 40k there is no real good or bad, just different points of views. I am a tau player and like them because they are coalition of different alien species as compared to usual single species armies. The whole join us or die thing can be considered to be evil, but with the 40k verse this is not to bad, as they are giving you a choice to join them (there is always a choice, sometimes the other choice really sucks). I do have one question, other than the dawn of war computer game, is there any other record of the Tau sterilizing humans? I have read a good amount of the tau fluff and have not found any other references to this act.

Not to sound repetitive but do you own the Cities of Death rule book? There is a story in there (infact the cover art is a scene from this) about the Tau invading an imperial world (Nimbosa) when the imperium's resources were diverted to battle the newly arrived Hive Fleet Kraken in Ultima Segmentum. Basically they show up and beat down the small defense force left on the planet, and then begin a mass extermination of the planet's populace. When a stronger defense (Vostroyan Firstborns) is mustered, the two forces duke it out in the city streets for weeks. The tau inevitably win and rather than offer surrender, the Tau commander, one Commander Brightsword, orders the total annihilation of all remaining humans. Well eventually The Black Templars space marines arrived to reinforce the humans on planet Nimbosa, only to find them all slaughtered, none of their equipment salvaged, and no trace of the Tau.

Apparently they didn't really want the world in the first place. That's a whole lot of innocent people dead for the Tau to just decide not to take the planet after all.

So not quite "sterilization of humans", so much as the "sterilization of a planet of humans."

Bonus: Scene from the battle on planet Nimbosa.



I don't believe in good or evil, but there's some pretty compelling evidence they aren't good. Wish you could go back and change your vote?

/thread

Falconlance wrote:

guardpiper wrote:In 40k there is no real good or bad, just different points of views. I am a tau player and like them because they are coalition of different alien species as compared to usual single species armies. The whole join us or die thing can be considered to be evil, but with the 40k verse this is not to bad, as they are giving you a choice to join them (there is always a choice, sometimes the other choice really sucks). I do have one question, other than the dawn of war computer game, is there any other record of the Tau sterilizing humans? I have read a good amount of the tau fluff and have not found any other references to this act.

Not to sound repetitive but do you own the Cities of Death rule book? There is a story in there (infact the cover art is a scene from this) about the Tau invading an imperial world (Nimbosa) when the imperium's resources were diverted to battle the newly arrived Hive Fleet Kraken in Ultima Segmentum. Basically they show up and beat down the small defense force left on the planet, and then begin a mass extermination of the planet's populace. When a stronger defense (Vostroyan Firstborns) is mustered, the two forces duke it out in the city streets for weeks. The tau inevitably win and rather than offer surrender, the Tau commander, one Commander Brightsword, orders the total annihilation of all remaining humans. Well eventually The Black Templars space marines arrived to reinforce the humans on planet Nimbosa, only to find them all slaughtered, none of their equipment salvaged, and no trace of the Tau.

Apparently they didn't really want the world in the first place. That's a whole lot of innocent people dead for the Tau to just decide not to take the planet after all.

So not quite "sterilization of humans", so much as the "sterilization of a planet of humans."

Bonus: Scene from the battle on planet Nimbosa.



I don't believe in good or evil, but there's some pretty compelling evidence they aren't good. Wish you could go back and change your vote?

/thread

Voted GOOD. I am a Tau player so I will attempt to combat the propaganda of the Imperium of (hu)MAN and spread the news of the Greater Good (for all).


To play troublemaker and devil's advocate.

1st Point: That was one incident with one commander. To base entire Tau philosophy on one over-reacting commander is crazy. Now, if this was an IMPERIAL commander, we could justifiably say that this was an evil act because the Imperium has the all standing creed of "Kill the Xeno!" Commander Brightsword has already been censured for his brazen acts and that's all that will be said about that. (Re: Read Kill Team).

2nd Point: Understand the Tau philosophy. We do not see territory in the normal sense. Protracted defense is undesired and we will voluntarily relocate if there is a significant force incoming. Unlike the Gue'la Armored Men, we supporters of the Greater Good do not believe in "heroic" last stands. We would rather use those resources and dedicate them to other arena's of combat. Just because the Tau left the planet doesn't necessarily mean that they never wanted it in the first place. Tau will leave, then come back at a later time.

3rd Point: To say that every human who resists the Greater Good will be sterilized is a blatant lie! For instance, would you sterilize a passive dog who follows your commands? No. Would you sterilize a dog who shows aggression towards any and all attempts at trying to train it? Yes. Those gue'la who are all out resisting the Greater Good and blowing up, harassing, killing Tau and their helpers, of course you have to use extreme methods. Those humans who willingly accept the Greater Good will be welcomed and found occupations best fitting the needs of the Good.

Don't believe the outlandish lies of Imperial propagandists! The Greater Good is far more desirable than serving an uncaring, distant, Emperor and his greedy, self-serving, demagogues!

In our world settings, Lawful Evil. In 40k....... Neutral Good.

Here's the rundown:

Average IG: Neutral Good. Usually they work for the good of humanity, no matter what (unless they're pissing themselves)

Average SM: Lawful Evil. Bring order to the universe by choking the gak out of it (a la Darth Vader)

Chaos: (obviously) Chaotic Evil. Do I need to explain why?

Inquisition: Lawful Neutral. Obey the law whether it's right or wrong.

Tyranids: True Neutral. They're just hungry!!

Orks: Chaotic Neutral. Might be your friend, Might declare waaagh on your entire planet. They don't care.

Dark Eldar: Neutral Evil. They're just evil for evil's sake.

Eldar: Lawful Good, but they're donkey-caves about it. 'Lawful' however, only seems to apply to their race. To anyone else they're True Neutral.

Necrons: Neutral Evil. They're Neutral, but what they do is really fethed up.


So are the Tau good guys? Not to us.

Doombot001 wrote:

Falconlance wrote:

guardpiper wrote:In 40k there is no real good or bad, just different points of views. I am a tau player and like them because they are coalition of different alien species as compared to usual single species armies. The whole join us or die thing can be considered to be evil, but with the 40k verse this is not to bad, as they are giving you a choice to join them (there is always a choice, sometimes the other choice really sucks). I do have one question, other than the dawn of war computer game, is there any other record of the Tau sterilizing humans? I have read a good amount of the tau fluff and have not found any other references to this act.

Not to sound repetitive but do you own the Cities of Death rule book? There is a story in there (infact the cover art is a scene from this) about the Tau invading an imperial world (Nimbosa) when the imperium's resources were diverted to battle the newly arrived Hive Fleet Kraken in Ultima Segmentum. Basically they show up and beat down the small defense force left on the planet, and then begin a mass extermination of the planet's populace. When a stronger defense (Vostroyan Firstborns) is mustered, the two forces duke it out in the city streets for weeks. The tau inevitably win and rather than offer surrender, the Tau commander, one Commander Brightsword, orders the total annihilation of all remaining humans. Well eventually The Black Templars space marines arrived to reinforce the humans on planet Nimbosa, only to find them all slaughtered, none of their equipment salvaged, and no trace of the Tau.

Apparently they didn't really want the world in the first place. That's a whole lot of innocent people dead for the Tau to just decide not to take the planet after all.

So not quite "sterilization of humans", so much as the "sterilization of a planet of humans."

Bonus: Scene from the battle on planet Nimbosa.



I don't believe in good or evil, but there's some pretty compelling evidence they aren't good. Wish you could go back and change your vote?

/thread

Voted GOOD. I am a Tau player so I will attempt to combat the propaganda of the Imperium of (hu)MAN and spread the news of the Greater Good (for all).


To play troublemaker and devil's advocate.

1st Point: That was one incident with one commander. To base entire Tau philosophy on one over-reacting commander is crazy. Now, if this was an IMPERIAL commander, we could justifiably say that this was an evil act because the Imperium has the all standing creed of "Kill the Xeno!" Commander Brightsword has already been censured for his brazen acts and that's all that will be said about that. (Re: Read Kill Team).

2nd Point: Understand the Tau philosophy. We do not see territory in the normal sense. Protracted defense is undesired and we will voluntarily relocate if there is a significant force incoming. Unlike the Gue'la Armored Men, we supporters of the Greater Good do not believe in "heroic" last stands. We would rather use those resources and dedicate them to other arena's of combat. Just because the Tau left the planet doesn't necessarily mean that they never wanted it in the first place. Tau will leave, then come back at a later time.

3rd Point: To say that every human who resists the Greater Good will be sterilized is a blatant lie! For instance, would you sterilize a passive dog who follows your commands? No. Would you sterilize a dog who shows aggression towards any and all attempts at trying to train it? Yes. Those gue'la who are all out resisting the Greater Good and blowing up, harassing, killing Tau and their helpers, of course you have to use extreme methods. Those humans who willingly accept the Greater Good will be welcomed and found occupations best fitting the needs of the Good.

Don't believe the outlandish lies of Imperial propagandists! The Greater Good is far more desirable than serving an uncaring, distant, Emperor and his greedy, self-serving, demagogues!

urge to retort in a similar role-play-ey fashion, rising....

@ Falconlance, I do not own a copy of cities of death. While I did know about brightsword, as Doombot001 said, this was a rouge commander, and not the norm of the Tau. If I remember my Last Chances correctly, the Tau brought them in to kill him as they where disgusted with his actions. And I still like my answer.

Oim an Ork playa so oi will atempt to foight the proppyganda of da Impeeeryum of Oomies and talk about da Waaagh! (da Ork!).


Tah play troubleygrot and Mork's advokit.

1st Point: Dat wuz just a Ork. One Ork iznt all da Orks ya nutta. Now, dat duznt meen dis Ork was doin wut da Orks dunt normly do, but at leest dem squishy Oomies isnt muckin about roight? Nadreg's a fat flash git an 'e probly wunt even be in da new codeks (Re: Reed Codex: Orks).

2nd Point: Know wots wot. Orks is da boss of everyfing. Wots yoo gunna do when deres no boys iz yoo gunna git more boys an chop em up. Wez not sum weedy Oomie wot wants da be loik a grot and muck about. We want ta stomp da ooniverse flat ya stoopis zogger. When da Orks run its so dey can come back fer anuva go, see?. Green wil always beet da uvers in da end, unless we fink uv sumfink else ta do.

3rd Point: To say dat Orks iz not da meenist and da greenist iz a lie! Fer instunse, iz da Tauz da meenist an da greenist? No. Iz Orks da meenist and da greenist? Yes. Da Tauz an da Elders an da Oomies is always cryin loik liddle grots an dey usully isnt green neever. Sum uv dem is green but deys still not greena den da Orks so deys not da greenist no matta eever way.

LISSUN UP WEH DA ORKS IS TALKING! WEZ GONNA CHOP YOO UP AN JUMP UP AN DOWN ON DA BITZ WOTS LEFT!

Orkeosaurus wrote:Oim an Ork playa so oi will atempt to foight the proppyganda of da Impeeeryum of Oomies and talk about da Waaagh! (da Ork!).


Tah play troubleygrot and Mork's advokit.

1st Point: Dat wuz just a Ork. One Ork iznt all da Orks ya nutta. Now, dat duznt meen dis Ork was doin wut da Orks dunt normly do, but at leest dem squishy Oomies isnt muckin about roight? Nadreg's a fat flash git an 'e probly wunt even be in da new codeks (Re: Reed Codex: Orks).

2nd Point: Know wots wot. Orks is da boss of everyfing. Wots yoo gunna do when deres no boys iz yoo gunna git more boys an chop em up. Wez not sum weedy Oomie wot wants da be loik a grot and muck about. We want ta stomp da ooniverse flat ya stoopis zogger. When da Orks run its so dey can come back fer anuva go, see?. Green wil always beet da uvers in da end, unless we fink uv sumfink else ta do.

3rd Point: To say dat Orks iz not da meenist and da greenist iz a lie! Fer instunse, iz da Tauz da meenist an da greenist? No. Iz Orks da meenist and da greenist? Yes. Da Tauz an da Elders an da Oomies is always cryin loik liddle grots an dey usully isnt green neever. Sum uv dem is green but deys still not greena den da Orks so deys not da greenist no matta eever way.

LISSUN UP WEH DA ORKS IS TALKING! WEZ GONNA CHOP YOO UP AN JUMP UP AN DOWN ON DA BITZ WOTS LEFT!

This makes one of my top 10 posts. Ever.

Honestly, the Tau Empire is just as bad as the imperium. They brainwash, massacre, and hate other races just as much as any Imperial force would. They choose a few 'useful' friends (Kroot, Vespid) that can complete tasks for them.

Tau kill Orks- Tau evil!

They are xenos scum and are to be purged along with the rest of them.

(Also, they mess with each others heads. Ethereals are creepy. And they enslave other races.)

Orkeosaurus wrote:Oim an Ork playa so oi will atempt to foight the proppyganda of da Impeeeryum of Oomies and talk about da Waaagh! (da Ork!).


Tah play troubleygrot and Mork's advokit.

1st Point: Dat wuz just a Ork. One Ork iznt all da Orks ya nutta. Now, dat duznt meen dis Ork was doin wut da Orks dunt normly do, but at leest dem squishy Oomies isnt muckin about roight? Nadreg's a fat flash git an 'e probly wunt even be in da new codeks (Re: Reed Codex: Orks).

2nd Point: Know wots wot. Orks is da boss of everyfing. Wots yoo gunna do when deres no boys iz yoo gunna git more boys an chop em up. Wez not sum weedy Oomie wot wants da be loik a grot and muck about. We want ta stomp da ooniverse flat ya stoopis zogger. When da Orks run its so dey can come back fer anuva go, see?. Green wil always beet da uvers in da end, unless we fink uv sumfink else ta do.

3rd Point: To say dat Orks iz not da meenist and da greenist iz a lie! Fer instunse, iz da Tauz da meenist an da greenist? No. Iz Orks da meenist and da greenist? Yes. Da Tauz an da Elders an da Oomies is always cryin loik liddle grots an dey usully isnt green neever. Sum uv dem is green but deys still not greena den da Orks so deys not da greenist no matta eever way.

LISSUN UP WEH DA ORKS IS TALKING! WEZ GONNA CHOP YOO UP AN JUMP UP AN DOWN ON DA BITZ WOTS LEFT!

Have an internet. You earned it.

When compared to Imperium - Tau = Good

Tau don't kill everyone, just most people which in 40k terms makes them good. If we put all partisanship aside (I play GK and CSM) Tau are undoubtedly the 'goodest' or least evil.

Madgod wrote:When compared to Imperium - Tau = Good

Tau don't kill everyone, just most people which in 40k terms makes them good. If we put all partisanship aside (I play GK and CSM) Tau are undoubtedly the 'goodest' or least evil.

Unless you count fluff races, like slann. Who seem to be rather benevolent and non hostile nowadays, and keep to themselves rather than killing everybody. Or jokero or whatever they're called.

Aren't slann subversive, infilitrating societies from the top???

Anywho, what about the supposed mind-control devices given by the Tau to the Vespid? Or the wierd way in which Etherals control others?

IIRC, the slann used to be warlike but have recently withdrawn to a peaceful life of seclusion and meditation. They were made by the old ones, they're like frog people. I think tau might be their descendants.

Norwulf wrote:IIRC, the slann used to be warlike but have recently withdrawn to a peaceful life of seclusion and meditation. They were made by the old ones, they're like frog people. I think tau might be their descendants.

I recall that tau are descended from quadrepedal herbivores that rapidly evolved during a warpstorm. Of course I have also read in Xenology that the Tau were created by the Eldar, who had stolen the queen of an insectoid race (the Q'Orl) and used her DNA to create the Tau ethereals. The Q'Orl possess the same crystalline structure in their carapaces as the ethereals do in their forehead, and the queen controls her hive via pheromones, just as the etherals manipulate the other castes.

The imperial magus performing the dissections speculated that the purpose for the eldar creating the tau was to use them as an autonomous chaos-resistant weapon.

I would argue that Tau are good; by my understanding they wish to spread peace throughout the galaxy and offer any race they encounter a chance to join their empire. Though their ideology is somewhat naïve, the Tau are willing to spill blood for the Greater Good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would argue that Tau are good; by my understanding they wish to spread peace throughout the galaxy and offer any race they encounter a chance to join their empire. Though their ideology is somewhat naïve, the Tau are willing to spill blood for the Greater Good.

Owain wrote:I would argue that Tau are good; by my understanding they wish to spread peace throughout the galaxy and offer any race they encounter a chance to join their empire. Though their ideology is somewhat naïve, the Tau are willing to spill blood for the Greater Good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would argue that Tau are good; by my understanding they wish to spread peace throughout the galaxy and offer any race they encounter a chance to join their empire. Though their ideology is somewhat naïve, the Tau are willing to spill blood for the Greater Good.

Propaganda sunk in deep on this one.

Falconlance wrote:

Owain wrote:I would argue that Tau are good; by my understanding they wish to spread peace throughout the galaxy and offer any race they encounter a chance to join their empire. Though their ideology is somewhat naïve, the Tau are willing to spill blood for the Greater Good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would argue that Tau are good; by my understanding they wish to spread peace throughout the galaxy and offer any race they encounter a chance to join their empire. Though their ideology is somewhat naïve, the Tau are willing to spill blood for the Greater Good.

Propaganda sunk in deep on this one.

See?! It's working already!

(Falconlance: Dude, you're pretty dirty. )

Well it really depends on whether you mean their morals or actions. Both the Imperium and Tau have the righ morals but the Tau go about things a bit better than the Imperium.

Tau- want to bring the galaxy together and stop the war- this must show they aren't bad, but there methods sometimes involvle killing other species.
Imperium of man- want to protect their people (a reasonable thing) but do a lot of killing, their own people and aliens.

In the end I think Tau are about as good as you can be in the situation. When your surrounded by demon worshipers, eight foot tall xenophobic killling machines and swarms of planet eating bugs, you sometimes have to resort to evil actions.

You also need to remeber that as Tau are one of the smallest race (in numbers) they need to prevent attacks rather than stop them when they come. If they didn't avoid rebelions and other problems in the way they do it's very possible they would have been entirely wiped out.

And I'm not just defending the army I play because I collect BA and have never played Tau.