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Oh god I remember that now. Yea we had to say both the pledge to the USA and the god damn Texan one - wtf kind of people do we have that made up such a silly practice and continue to sustain it?

And to risk derailing the thread further, once I got to an age of religious inquiry it pissed me off that we had to recite the words 'under god' so god damn much. Secular my ass!

youngblood wrote:I can't wait until glen beck comments on this. I can see the rage forming now...

I love the Glenn Beck show. Dont always agree with him, and personally think hes the poster child of crazy Christians, but I just like his show lol

OT that is a bit crazy. What is going on in our country? Also I want to ask, why are so many of you up in arms about having to pledge allegiance to the flag in school? I always wondered why we HAD to stop after... whatever grade it is you stop. Nothing wrong with showing a little national pride I think

I agree. What is so wrong about the Pledge every day in Elementary and Kindergarten? It's not as if it interfered with social time or nap time. It was 1 minute out of your life to honor this nations flag and it's founders. As adults we take a lot more out of our daily lives to do more trivial and stupider gak (like smoking a bowl or even smoking a cig).

I think the Pledge should be said all the way up through HS. If you are agnostic don't actually recite the "one Nation under God" part of it, but it won't kill a person to say the rest.

As to the topic....that's just scary and creepy and just plain wrong.

I too will welcome our new overlords once they fund me the money I need to build an Emperor-class titan, complete with jacuzzi and Olympic size swimming pool and relocate the Playboy mansion onto it. After a hard days work destroying cities and countries I don't much care for I can relax with a Bunny in the hot tub.

KingCracker wrote:

youngblood wrote:I can't wait until glen beck comments on this. I can see the rage forming now...

I love the Glenn Beck show. Dont always agree with him, and personally think hes the poster child of crazy Christians, but I just like his show lol

OT that is a bit crazy. What is going on in our country? Also I want to ask, why are so many of you up in arms about having to pledge allegiance to the flag in school? I always wondered why we HAD to stop after... whatever grade it is you stop. Nothing wrong with showing a little national pride I think

Agreed there's nothing wrong with national pride, but I would argue that recitation of words doesn't make them mean anything to the person.

Glen Beck has gone off the deep end as of late. I was a big fan until Obama came into office. Beck became a bit of conspiracy theorist after that.

Frazzled wrote:
Look up the school district.

There's a difference between an event held at a public school by an independent group, and an event sanctioned by the public school district.

Thats very true and it may be. However its clearly at the school so the burden now shifts to those saying its not to prove otherwise.

I agree. What is so wrong about the Pledge every day in Elementary and Kindergarten? It's not as if it interfered with social time or nap time. It was 1 minute out of your life to honor this nations flag and it's founders. As adults we take a lot more out of our daily lives to do more trivial and stupider gak (like smoking a bowl or even smoking a cig).

I didn't understand concepts like patriotism or national loyalty when I was in kindergarten. The pledge was just kind of annoying. That said, it's pretty harmless. It's just a state funded bit of forced national loyalty, which is at worst harmlessly annoying.

That said, it's still a fairly recent practice, and doesn't actually do much to the demographic that has to do it. You can't force people to be patriotic by getting them to pledge in school. Coercion doesn't engender loyalty, even simple and harmless things like the pledge. I would much rather that minute be spent learning about a specific president, or a cool moment in US history.

Agreed there's nothing wrong with national pride, but I would argue that recitation of words doesn't make them mean anything to the person.

Glen Beck has gone off the deep end as of late. I was a big fan until Obama came into office. Beck became a bit of conspiracy theorist after that.

Beck was always an idiotic conspiracy theorist with no actual opinions or ideas of his own. He's just a television outlet for the dregs of free republic.

I just drew pictures during the pledge.

Standing up to say you love a flag wasn't high on my to do list.

So... there is a crazy teacher out there eh? The odds of that are... A THOUSAND DOLLARS ON THERE BEING A CRAZY TEACHER!!! Man... I am going to be in the money on this one .

The whole pledge of allegiance argument is silly... very silly. If anything you should be complaining about the fact that you cannot do it outside as a school, before class; not a difficult proposition in any way.

Would that not solve all of these issues? People that do not want to do it, can just wait until class starts, and the fact that it is right before class means that teachers can take role early, then find out who the evil ones are . Nah, not really, but sing the words and make sure you are using the right hand. Heck, you could even take one of those football #1 fingers as a reminder which hand to use. That actually sound like a fantastic idea... much better than my idea to wear a ten gallon hat before class, so that I could make sure no one would invade my personal space.

Who would dare walk under a massive cartoon hat? Only those who wish to come face to face with the devil... beware.

I dont know why but this reminds me of the brain washing in OST at Ft. Knox....

Drill: What makes the green grass grow!?!?!?

Pvt's: BLOOD BLOOD BRIGHT RED BLOOD DRILL SERGEANT!!!!

Whatever happened to the pledge of allegence? I just want the 50s back. A real General as President, cheesy tv, polo, and Atom Bombs but it was so much more simple back then.

Pipboy101 wrote:Whatever happened to the pledge of allegence? I just want the 50s back. A real General as President, cheesy tv, polo, and Atom Bombs but it was so much more simple back then.

"Under god" was added to the pledge in 1954. You're going to have to go back farther if you don't want complication.

I like the alternative words:

I plead alignment to the flakes of the untitled snakes of a merry cow. And to the Republicans for they scam, one nacho, underpants, with licorice, and jugs of wine for owls.

- Matt Groening, Life in Hell

This reminds me of children made to sing hymes about angels protecting Hilter in Nazi Germany.

The point with the pledge is, from my PoV, that there is very little difference between pledging allegiance to the flag and the message from these kids' singing.

However, I'm sure some people will point out a difference between pledging allegiance to a flag (nationalistic pride) vs the quoted lyrics of the song (singling out an individual). After all, Hitler required the army to swear allegiance to him and not Germany, right? It is another comparison of Obama to Hitler that only seems to have happened since he became president.

Frankly, I don't think second graders know what the words to the pledge mean. I doubt the kids will remember the lyrics to the song in six months time. I suspect in 15 years these kids will have all kinds of different views. In short, I think this incident isn't the conspiracy some people make it out to be.

However, what does concern me is the sheer hatred some people in this country have to our current government. Most of it, like this incident, seems to me to totally overblown and I shake my head when I hear people like Beck, Limbaugh and other ideologues espousing that our government is becoming fascist/communist/socialist insert your favorite bogeyman here.

Where were these people with guns when Bush was giving speeches? Were they in those 'free speech zones' blocks away? Where were the cries of fascism when it was discovered that warrantless wiretaps were happening? Where was the outrage when Monica Goodling was hiring attorneys based on partisan criteria? Where were the advocates of personal responsibility and determination when Congress was debating what to do about Schiavo?

Freedom means responsibility too and frankly I think most people don't want freedom, they want to feel safe and that they belong to something bigger than themselves. Incoherent ranting about "the other" is group identity. That kind of thinking is what leads to authoritarianism.

All this outrage is bunk. If you pay attention you'll learn that all elites, not just those in Hollywood, are dividing the US in order to keep their privatized profits and power while socializing their losses. It isn't anything new, but the brazenness is. Those people who don't stop to think for themselves end up hurting themselves, their communities and their country.

Edit: And Lord Loss proves my point before I completed this post

Lord-Loss wrote:This reminds me of children made to sing hymes about angels protecting Hilter in Nazi Germany.

They could protect him from anything but himself.

If school children were instructed to sing a song about how George Bush was so great, and how he saved America from the terrorists and made America great after Clinton, of course there would be a lot of opposition.

Not by all the same people, of course.

Dal'yth Dude wrote:The point with the pledge is, from my PoV, that there is very little difference between pledging allegiance to the flag and the message from these kids' singing.

However, I'm sure some people will point out a difference between pledging allegiance to a flag (nationalistic pride) vs the quoted lyrics of the song (singling out an individual). After all, Hitler required the army to swear allegiance to him and not Germany, right? It is another comparison of Obama to Hitler that only seems to have happened since he became president.

Frankly, I don't think second graders know what the words to the pledge mean. I doubt the kids will remember the lyrics to the song in six months time. I suspect in 15 years these kids will have all kinds of different views. In short, I think this incident isn't the conspiracy some people make it out to be.

However, what does concern me is the sheer hatred some people in this country have to our current government. Most of it, like this incident, seems to me to totally overblown and I shake my head when I hear people like Beck, Limbaugh and other ideologues espousing that our government is becoming fascist/communist/socialist insert your favorite bogeyman here.

Where were these people with guns when Bush was giving speeches? Were they in those 'free speech zones' blocks away? Where were the cries of fascism when it was discovered that warrantless wiretaps were happening? Where was the outrage when Monica Goodling was hiring attorneys based on partisan criteria? Where were the advocates of personal responsibility and determination when Congress was debating what to do about Schiavo?

Freedom means responsibility too and frankly I think most people don't want freedom, they want to feel safe and that they belong to something bigger than themselves. Incoherent ranting about "the other" is group identity. That kind of thinking is what leads to authoritarianism.

All this outrage is bunk. If you pay attention you'll learn that all elites, not just those in Hollywood, are dividing the US in order to keep their privatized profits and power while socializing their losses. It isn't anything new, but the brazenness is. Those people who don't stop to think for themselves end up hurting themselves, their communities and their country.

Edit: And Lord Loss proves my point before I completed this post

Wait wingnuts were calling Bush and Cheney Fascists, Nazis, and killers for years, but its just now an issue for you?

Pipboy101 wrote:Whatever happened to the pledge of allegence? I just want the 50s back. A real General as President, cheesy tv, polo, and Atom Bombs but it was so much more simple back then.

Yeah, back when those minorities knew their place and if someone got uppity about "civil rights" they would just disappear. Truly the best of times.

Wait wingnuts were calling Bush and Cheney Fascists, Nazis, and killers for years, but its just now an issue

The difference being Bush was a time traveling fascist, Nazi, murderer.

People flying off the handle is always a reality. You have to admit though, media attention to small details like this are getting totally overblown these days. The simple fact that glen beck actually has a job and viewership in the media shows just how large the right wing crazy population has become. There is no left wing equivalent. Jon Stuarts possibly the closest, almost, he's still closer to Ed Helms. Keep in mind, thats a comedy show on comedy central staffed by comedians.

It's actually kind of concerning.

Dal'yth Dude wrote:However, what does concern me is the sheer hatred some people in this country have to our current government. Most of it, like this incident, seems to me to totally overblown and I shake my head when I hear people like Beck, Limbaugh and other ideologues espousing that our government is becoming fascist/communist/socialist insert your favorite bogeyman here.

Where were these people with guns when Bush was giving speeches? Were they in those 'free speech zones' blocks away? Where were the cries of fascism when it was discovered that warrantless wiretaps were happening? Where was the outrage when Monica Goodling was hiring attorneys based on partisan criteria? Where were the advocates of personal responsibility and determination when Congress was debating what to do about Schiavo?

Personally, I think as the economy gets better, you'll see the craziness moderate. Not saying it'll end -- times were generally good under Clinton and there was much ugliness from the rightiest right back then too (remember "black helicopters") -- but once people start buying their new LED TVs, etc. again they'll be sated.

And you and I both know none of this has anything to do with principles or issues. It has everything to do with boorish cheering sections on both sides, rooting for their political parties like they're sports teams. Although (as I've said before) their behavior would get them thrown out of most stadiums.

The difference Frazzled is that I didn't post lots of threads of [edit] on Dakka calling Bush and Cheney Fascists, Nazis, and killers for years. I don't recall commenting here on Dakka on anything similar. In fact, I don't recall political threads on Dakka until this year. Maybe I just didn't see them.

There's always extremists on both sides. So if people calling Bush and Cheney fascists are wingnuts, does that mean you agree that those who call Obama a fascist are wingnuts too?

President Obama is not a Fascist... nor a socialist... that is all.

Dal'yth Dude wrote:The difference Frazzled is that I didn't post lots of threads of [edit] on Dakka calling Bush and Cheney Fascists, Nazis, and killers for years. I don't recall commenting here on Dakka on anything similar. In fact, I don't recall political threads on Dakka until this year. Maybe I just didn't see them.

There's always extremists on both sides. So if people calling Bush and Cheney fascists are wingnuts, does that mean you agree that those who call Obama a fascist are wingnuts too?

Yes. When extreme words are used, it makes the speaker a wingnut (am I now a wingnut?)

Frazzled wrote:Thats very true and it may be. However its clearly at the school so the burden now shifts to those saying its not to prove otherwise.

Assumed guilty until proved innocent.

If you want to be youngblood go ahead. Personally, I don't think just extreme words makes a wingnut, but that's me.

Dal'yth Dude wrote:If you want to be youngblood go ahead. Personally, I don't think just extreme words makes a wingnut, but that's me.

IMO words have loads of power. Again, look at Glen Beck or take a step up to Limbaugh. If you want to look at wingnuts, he's partly responsible for the republicans going crazy. Words have incredible power and when used in extreme ways, they illicit strong responses (the tea parties, the 9/12 march, etc.)

Meditation and ear plugs work wonders as well though... I would say that would be the strongest power any one person has at their disposal. You can get up and scream and shout in a crowd, you can rile up entire nations, but in the end no one has the last word. The last word is reserved for those who laugh last, and those who do so, probably lost a bit of their sanity along the way. Where am I going with this... hmmm.

How much power can words have over you, when you are the one to interpret those words, and incorporate those words into your perception? I suppose you could say that no personal responsibility exists, but then what qualms would you have with these hate-mongers out to make a buck?

Wrexasaur wrote:Meditation and ear plugs work wonders as well though... I would say that would be the strongest power any one person has at their disposal. You can get up and scream and shout in a crowd, you can rile up entire nations, but in the end no one has the last word. The last word is reserved for those who laugh last, and those who do so, probably lost a bit of their sanity along the way. Where am I going with this... hmmm.

How much power can words have over you, when you are the one to interpret those words, and incorporate those words into your perception? I suppose you could say that no personal responsibility exists, but then what qualms would you have with these hate-mongers out to make a buck?

Words can have pooploads of power over people who want to appear informed but put little time into becoming informed.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Thats very true and it may be. However its clearly at the school so the burden now shifts to those saying its not to prove otherwise.

Assumed guilty until proved innocent.

Simple shift of burden of proof.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dal'yth Dude wrote:

does that mean you agree that those who call Obama a fascist are wingnuts too?

Of course. Obama is no more a fascist than I am a yankee.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dal'yth Dude wrote:The difference Frazzled is that I didn't post lots of threads of [edit] on Dakka calling Bush and Cheney Fascists, Nazis, and killers for years. I don't recall commenting here on Dakka on anything similar. In fact, I don't recall political threads on Dakka until this year. Maybe I just didn't see them.

Then you weren't around for the election.