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@GMMStudios: If you are already taking mystics have you considered taking the emperor's tarot on your inquisitor to help insure first turn shooting?

regarding the "no cover save russ":
I used 2 single Demolishers against Eldar, one ended the game with a single weapon destroyed result, the other was completely undamaged.

It's not only the cover save that protects them. AV 14/13 helps a lot, since glancings cannot destroy them anymore.
But giving the enemy a better protected (perhaps with cover or just more ablative wounds) , more immediate threat to shoot at keeps them safe.

ES - How is that possible? My brothers eldar list sports 7 TL Bright Lances (which make AV 14 into AV 12) 12 BS4 flying meltaguns and 3 fire prisms. Is your opponent just playing a bad list?

Augustus - I have thought about it but usually run out of points first. It's iffy.

I think you're right he did use a bad list...
I got 1st turn and he didn't reserve all he had. I popped 1 of his 2 prisms with alpha striking vendetta, w/ scout move.
His Wraithlord wasn't able to destroy my demolishers (it was equipped with a bright lance and a S8 Weapon, don't know what it's called in english sorry, german is my first language and i don't own the english eldar codex^^) he rolled bad for the lord the entire game.

I think you mean a Falcon, so yes combined with the Wraithlord that is all I need to know, it was a bad list But not to discredit your win it sounds like you knew what you were doing.

I play vs. this sort of armies nightmare all the time. All the energy fields and speed, plus reserving and getting +2 on the rolls...I have yet to lose or draw but it is a tough match. Against that army you have to roll up rather than sit back since 18 St 8 SP 1 shots is better than 6 st 8 shots. Manticores are pretty much nerfed.

No problem, i like criticism, because i need to learn of it =)
Since this was 1st time i played against eldar I just need more experience what to field against em and how to play against.

GMMStudios wrote:I think you mean a Falcon, so yes combined with the Wraithlord that is all I need to know, it was a bad list But not to discredit your win it sounds like you knew what you were doing.

I play vs. this sort of armies nightmare all the time. All the energy fields and speed, plus reserving and getting +2 on the rolls...I have yet to lose or draw but it is a tough match. Against that army you have to roll up rather than sit back since 18 St 8 SP 1 shots is better than 6 st 8 shots. Manticores are pretty much nerfed.

Yeah, versus serpents they are, at least versus prisms they should do better.

Hydras and more hydras. If he reserves then the MoO is gold. I fight versus eldar often and just like you I haven't lost yet, but draws happen. At least the inquisitor + psychic hood is gold too, even eldrad gets half of his psychic stuff nerfed. And AV12 spam makes the bright lances a waste of points.

"No cover save Russ", I was actually referring to the nova cannon equipped Russ with the S6 AP4 36" range no cover save gun. If I remember my stats correctly. Basically one kept cheap. Hull heavy bolter, gun, no sponsons, just bare bones.

@Ivan
hmm why should I use the Linebreaker Russ with the Nova Cannon?
with it's AP4 it allows all jetbikers and most aspect warriors it's armor save.
3+ armor is harder to fail than a 4+ cover save (if he has one)

freddieyu1 wrote:

Hydras and more hydras. If he reserves then the MoO is gold.

Meh, for 30 points I would rather have another gun. He still comes in on 3+ turn two and 2+ turn 3 if something doesnt make it in.

Also Hydras arent that hot vs Eldar skimmers. Needing 6 to pen and if you are loading up on more than two hydras in your army you are screwed vs a lot of other builds. I feel safe spending 150 points on hydras. Its enough to kill a lot of light armor but if they have no targets or just infantry targets it is no big loss.

Ivan - The collossus is better. I have tinkered with the collossus and it isnt bad but once again too specialized for all comers and there are better HS choices.

Mainly as an anti-ork & IG weapon was what I was thinking. Same basic target pool as Hellhounds only without the need to get within enemy assault range to shoot. No AP3 like the Colossus but more armor and no minimum range.

Obviously it's not great against MEQs.

Truthfully, I'm a bit dubious about it, just curious if anyone has tried running them to any success.


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As for Hydras vs Eldar... I dont really undrestand why Eldar players have such an irrational fear of Hydras. As mentioned, autocannons are not the ideal weapon vs armor 12. Dont get me wrong, I like Hydras in general... but a Wave Serpent doesnt have THAT much to fear from them.

That is right you know. My opponent loves to gun for the hydras first.

Versus eldar what counts is volume of fire. The only weapon that can do this at long range at a points efficient cost are hydras and ig squads with autocannons. Even shaken results versus the skimmers are good since it shuts down all their firepower while moving. This puts theadvantage to the guard since it will force the eldar to disembark. In a transport vs transport shootout ig wins because the troops can fight while mounted.

Hydras btw are good versus all kinds of opponents, and yes 2 is the most I will place in a squadron.

If you are going to be taking Mystics and expect to make a lot of use out of them, that might be the deciding factor on taking one Leman Russ/squadron instead of other Heavies, because their main weapons are turret mounted rather than hull mounted like the Basilisk chassis. And free spinning is no longer part of the shooting phase so they'd have to drop right in front of your 45 degree front arc if you were using Basilisk chassis. But spinning your turret is allowed in shooting so the Russes can fire pie plates 360 degrees.

You said you have the guns below in your army:

17 meltaguns
10 lascannons either TL or BS4
5 Plasma Cannons
1 Battle Cannon
6 Multilasers
10 Heavy Flamers
8 TL Autocannons
2 St10 AP2 pies

What point level is this? Can you post a list?


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PBS - Yeah weaken resolve is hot stuff. It owns some build types, but have no use vs. others. I do not want to hear "but agaisnt those armies its another pie!" when for the same price as a (must be) mounted unit, you can get real artillery. I cringe when I see double units in lists, as your alpha strike ability is totally weakened. (I will get to AS in a sec.)

Isn't it kind of Alpha Strikey to use Weaken Resolve on turn 1 to make their best infantry unit run off the board?

The new Tyranids will probably reduce the overall playability of the PBS. However I do think having an automatic solution to Kairos is pretty fantastic.

Ivan - In my 2000 point tourny list I run one Leman Russ Eradicator with Plasma Cannon sponsons. So far I have found the preformance of the tank to be excellent. Of course this tank really shines when dislodging non-MEQs from objectives or devastating Big Mek KFF boyz squads (doing just enough casualties to make those orks UN-fearless and force a moral check in conjunction with a PBS).

Some people argue that the Plasma Cannon sponsons make the tank too expensive (200 points) but, IMHO, they allow an awesome amount of flexibilty. The sponsons make the tank viable in missions against MEQs and offer a good anti TEQ defence. In essence, between a 4 plasma CCS unit, an Executioner, and this bad boy I can put the hurt on termis virtually anywhere they teleport in from (assuming the tank survives!).

GMMstudios - If you say so buddy, only thing I know it than an outflanking Vendetta or two can really eat some hydras for lunch.

wait what do you have for the command?
becuase i think that with this frontloading sutff you gotta have a master of the fleet,
you know so that t4,s4, chainfist toting 2+ as adn 5+is dont land on ur armoured ass

I am also curious what your list looks like GMMstudios

From my experience playing with IG so far:

Allied Daemon Hunter Inquisitor is the awesome. Emperor's Tarot for a 5/6 chance of +1 to go first and the anti deepstrike is awesome. Psycannon for punking fateweaver in combination with Psyker Battle Squad is pretty good too.

I disagree with Psyker battle squad not making the cut. Yes Psyker Battle Squad is pretty bad vs Eldar with Runes of Warding and Space Wolves Rune Priests but 1 PBS is necessary in an all comers list for beating lists like Fate Crusher and Nob Bikers. You can minimize the points cost by going with only 6 Psykers . -6 should be enough to make things run although the template doesn't insta kill nobs or space marine characters anymore.

I also disagree about Infantry Platoons they can be worth it if there is a reasonable guarantee you will have cover to put them in. The Platoon of 30 with a Comissar in cover is pretty resilent. If you combine squads the combined squads are only worth 1 KP. However if you end up with no cover for them yeah they are really bad and die really fast. I ended up droping the Platoon cause in a tournament I can't take the chance that I will not have cover for my Platoon.

Valkyrie Vendettas are really awesome. Yes they are easy to shake but 3 TL Las cannons for 130 pts that also has transport capability and scout so you can alpha strike with a first turn assault with melta bomb veterans or outflank with 3 tl las cannons firing on side armor is pretty darn good. I like Vendettas better then Dual Hydras.

Manticore is really nasty. With D3 Strength 10 large templates you can wipe out whole units and its not to shabby anti tank. Yeah you only get 4 shots but the game could end on turn 5 and if you run out of ammo you usually did 160 pts or more in damage.

Executioners rock with all the marines out there. 4-5 Plasma cannon shots for about the price of 3 oblits is expensive but still rocks. Yeah sometimes you get bad scatters but if you hit a few times ouch.

My list development thread in case anyone is interested:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/259301.page

Plasma Russ is decent against MEQs... but as you said it's a hefty points chunk that is really only optimal against MEQs (and Nidzilla to some extent). Against Orks, non-zilla-heavy Nids (not that you see that very often), enemy IG, etc, you're paying a lot of points for a relatively sub-optimal unit. Against MEQs keep in mind they're going to know how ugly it can be, hence gun hard for it. Brutal vs deep striking terminators when combined with a mystic equipped Inquisitor... but I often find those arent that hard to deal with in other ways. YMMV of course. I'm not saying it's a bad choice, necessarily... just not one that fits my particular playstyle.

If you're going to take an Inquisitor then it's almost criminal not to take an old-school psychic hood with him. Not all armies use psykers very heavily but it's only an additional 20 points. Which will be worth every point when fighting Eldar, CSM, etc.

PBS are kinda the same way. Sure, you'll run into games where they're less effective due to hoods and such. But the games where they dont have psyker defense theyre going to screw over much more than their point value.

I also disagree about Infantry Platoons they can be worth it if there is a reasonable guarantee you will have cover to put them in.

I usually run two 30-man blob squads and almost always get both in cover. Means clumping them up sometimes but they can usually dig in somewhere. Ever once in a while one blob will get stuck out in the open but it doenst happen very often. I guess all the easy cover saves in 5th can pay off for Guard sometimes.

Manticore is grade-A boom boom for tossing out massive amounts of Str10 destruction. Only having 4 total shots really isnt much of a limitation and is totally compensated for by throwing out extra pieplates early game vs armies like Orks. Definitely want to hit those big mobs upfield and early. Can always not fire on a turn where no good targets present themselves. If you give it a hull heavy flamer (always a good idea for artillery) you can always use that late-game if it's out of missiles. Late game you're more likely to have enemy targets in your deployment zone area anyway. Hopefully close enough to trundle up and torch something.

I want to see the list because he recommended several heavy support choices.