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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Ah yes, the Moral Minority sponsored by C.R.A.P.

Stuff them. Their opinions are those of people desperately clutching at straws to justify their own opinion. They slavishly follow a books passages, denying themselves many forms of fun and relaxation. As such, they are incredibly tightly wound, and seeing people such as ourselves enjoying things they feel they aren't allowed really grinds their gears. Therefore, they lash out, criticising any behaviour they see that they really, really want to indulge in, but feel they can't.

It's like the colossal idiocy of those who argue homosexuality is a choice. This to me only suggests that they have found themselves sexually attracted to a member of their own sex, and then made their choice to live a lie, rather than admit they too are Gay. It's nonsensical behaviour, and all based off a book.

The cynicism that drips from your point of view is nowhere near the reality that most Christians, I can't speak for other religions, live in. Why do you hate something so much, especially when it provides hope and faith to billions? I am all for someone having their own opinion, but you border on the irresponsible by constantly trashing other peoples beliefs and belittling their intellect. It is completely disrespectful and uncalled for. If you have to make yourself feel more confident in your own beliefs by trashing those of others, then fine, but please don't do it here. You should try to be tolerant of others' opinions and beliefs, and not treat them like gak all the time. Just my two cents....

I was specifically referring to Right Wing Religious types. The sort that insist on foisting their own bizarre beliefs on others, all the while complaining about 'Islamification' etc.

Got nothing to do with the Religion, and everything to do with their faith.

And I don't feel the need to make myself more confident in my beliefs. I don't believe in a God, and as far as I'm concerned, our scant 80 or so years is all we get. If you believe differently, then great. But don't lambast me or claim to be superior to me just because of something you once read in a book!

Sorry if I came over a little defensive in this. I normally take pains to illustrate that I object to specifics rather than generalisations.

OMG, that is just simply beautiful! I refresh the page and skimmed from the bottom back to my last post. This is what I saw:

Kanluwen wrote:You're morally corrupt for watching it because the show kinda sucks

Truncated to reflect what I read as I skimmed the page:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Their opinions are those of people desperately clutching at straws to justify their own opinion... As such, they are incredibly tightly wound... they lash out, criticising any behaviour they see that they really, really want to indulge in, but feel they can't.

Freakin' Sweet! Hehehehehehehehehehe...

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:There is nothing more smug, patronising, arrogant and downright irritating than a Right wing devotee of any Religion.

Agreed. I just thought bringing the homosexual argument into this was rather... random. But hey, you were on you so its understandable. Let me know when you need help down.

tblock1984 wrote:OMG, that is just simply beautiful! I refresh the page and skimmed from the bottom back to my last post. This is what I saw:

Kanluwen wrote:You're morally corrupt for watching it because the show kinda sucks

Truncated to reflect what I read as I skimmed the page:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Their opinions are those of people desperately clutching at straws to justify their own opinion... As such, they are incredibly tightly wound... they lash out, criticising any behaviour they see that they really, really want to indulge in, but feel they can't.

Freakin' Sweet! Hehehehehehehehehehe...

Actually you can be morally wrong here. I find it morally wrong to watch shows that kill off your brain cells at an accelerated rate. Brainkiller! Those brain cells are gonna sue!

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Got nothing to do with the Religion, and everything to do with their faith.

See, I am the exact opposite. I tend to think that most peoples faith is correct while the religion (dogma, pointless traditions, culture specific beliefs) sucks. I'm running as fast as I can away from religion. Interesting distinction though.

“How manifold have been the abominations of your life! Are there not some here that have debased themselves below the dignity of human nature, by allowing in sensual filthiness, as swine in the mire?”
Reverend Edwards, Connecticut, 1730s

Sigh... I wasn't going to go down this road, but this thread has made a detour...

I will stand behind Mad Doc Grotsnik in what he said. I found nothing offensive. Here is the way I read it:
Stupidity and intolerance doesn't discriminate against race, gender, or faith.
And the combination of the two is a bad mix.

I don't discriminate either. I will say that someone/something is stupid no matter what the circumstances. And the archetype that MDG mentioned does piss me off.

Example:
In the Mormon faith, men are seen as being more powerful than women, because they hold the priesthood. When my mom asked for help from the church when my dad was being abusive, they asked her what she was doing to piss him off, and to stop doing that. o.O Case in point. I found the Bishop's line of thought stupid. Instead of working with my dad's raging anger problem, the blame was put on my mom. The person who was affected by it, not the person who was the source... Stupid.

See how I didn't call Mormons stupid? Just a single person who made a bad decision based on faith.
Faith and logic are to things that don't mix, that is why I don't believe in God. Not saying I am an atheist, I just don't believe in God.

Why is it a bad decision? Its a bad decision to YOU. To them its fine.

I thought people from California were supposed to be tolerant of different viewpoints. I guess not.

youngblood wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Got nothing to do with the Religion, and everything to do with their faith.

See, I am the exact opposite. I tend to think that most peoples faith is correct while the religion (dogma, pointless traditions, culture specific beliefs) sucks. I'm running as fast as I can away from religion. Interesting distinction though.

Agreed, but the line between faith and religion is a fuzzy one. I have faith with no religion, but some think faith IS religion. Like I said above, this can result in some poor decisions making...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:Why is it a bad decision? Its a bad decision to YOU. To them its fine.

I thought people from California were supposed to be tolerant of different viewpoints. I guess not.

You are confusing my willingness to point out stupidity with intolerance.

Oh, by the way, following the church's advice, my mother let my father walk all over her, beat her, etc.
This fostered a lot of pent up resentment and anger in my mom. When he tried to smother her with a pillow so he didn't have to hear her arguing, she fought back.
I called the police when I saw what he was doing.

She left 2 scratches on his arm and collar bone. She had none, he was using a pillow. There was no previous reports of domestic disputes (the church said those would make my dad look bad and might affect his job and our income), so who do you think went to jail.

Yes, I think it was a stupid decision.
/hostility off

By the way Frazz, what are we using as a metric for a "good decision"? This is starting to sound like a moral RAI vs RAW argument.

If your religion, the specific brand you have chosen to adhere to, says a show is off limits then you don't watch it.

If you question your religion's stance on not watching a tv show or question the wider issue of just why on earth a branch of a religion paying fealty to a universe creator would actually give a toss about a cartoon, you may wish to continue questioning your particular branch of the religion and seeking an alternative and slightly more broadminded branch of the religion.













Or, you could just make up your own mind.

tblock1984 wrote:Sigh... I wasn't going to go down this road, but this thread has made a detour...

I will stand behind Mad Doc Grotsnik in what he said. I found nothing offensive. Here is the way I read it:
Stupidity and intolerance doesn't discriminate against race, gender, or faith.
And the combination of the two is a bad mix.

I don't discriminate either. I will say that someone/something is stupid no matter what the circumstances. And the archetype that MDG mentioned does piss me off.

Example:
In the Mormon faith, men are seen as being more powerful than women, because they hold the priesthood. When my mom asked for help from the church when my dad was being abusive, they asked her what she was doing to piss him off, and to stop doing that. o.O Case in point. I found the Bishop's line of thought stupid. Instead of working with my dad's raging anger problem, the blame was put on my mom. The person who was affected by it, not the person who was the source... Stupid.

See how I didn't call Mormons stupid? Just a single person who made a bad decision based on faith.
Faith and logic are to things that don't mix, that is why I don't believe in God. Not saying I am an atheist, I just don't believe in God.

You didn't exactly call Mormons stupid.
Instead you mis-stated their doctrine.
The idiot would be that bishop who did not follow the teaching of the church. Women are seen as having the divine gift of creation and men are to protect them. That does not equal inferiority.

So your argument is flawed. (That it was based on the mormon faith of female
inferiority)

MDG, I think your posting style there comes pretty close to the high-horsey mouthing off you were giving out about.

Gen. Lee Losing wrote:You didn't exactly call Mormons stupid.
Instead you mis-stated their doctrine.
The idiot would be that bishop who did not follow the teaching of the church. Women are seen as having the divine gift of creation and men are to protect them. That does not equal inferiority.

So your argument is flawed. (That it was based on the mormon faith of female
inferiority)

My argument isn't flawed. I said they see men as being more powerful because they hold the priesthood, not meaning that women are inferior. Please do not paraphrase what I say and use it as ammunition in a debate...

These are simple facts:
Women cannot go into the Holiest of Holies (inner sanctum of a temple, unless it is also a Sealing/Ordinance room) because they do not bear the blessing of the Holy Melkizedek Priesthood. Or the Aaronic priesthood for that matter... Women cannot be Bishops, Apostles of Prophets.

Here, let me quote wiki:

Wikipedia wrote:In the mainstream of the Church today, women continue to have a significant public role, mostly in non-ecclesiastical areas such as art and culture. Ecclesiastically, the Church is firmly committed to patriarchy and gender role. Some Mormon women may be uncomfortable with these patriarchal structures within the Church, although no more so than in their professions, workplace or in secular life.

Women also have retained a certain degree of authority in some areas, including a number of leadership positions, which include authority over children or other women, although these women leaders are subject to supervision and guidance by priesthood-holding leaders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_and_Mormonism

So, do you wish to continue accusing me of mis-stating their doctrine, instead of reciting doctrine that I was force-fed for 16 long, arduous years.

MDG does this all the time, I'm used to it. He is offensive, but harmless. He just hasn't learned how to express himself calmly and rationally yet. Be patient with him.

As to the other stuff about mormons and women. I think you could say that most religions place men, functionally, in a place of authority over women.

I don't know if the whole picture is being given about the abuse story, but outside of hardcore islamic nations, it's hard to believe that the bishop "blamed" the woman in that case of abuse. I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'm certainly no expert on Mormons.

I can say that in any Church that I have been in, the pastor or the Bishop would have told the woman to pack up and leave.

GG

generalgrog wrote:MDG does this all the time, I'm used to it. He is offensive, but harmless. He just hasn't learned how to express himself calmly and rationally yet. Be patient with him.

As to the other stuff about mormons and women. I think you could say that most religions place men, functionally, in a place of authority over women.

I don't know if the whole picture is being given about the abuse story, but outside of hardcore islamic nations, it's hard to believe that the bishop "blamed" the woman in that case of abuse. I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'm certainly no expert on Mormons.

I can say that in any Church that I have been in, the pastor or the Bishop would have told the woman to pack up and leave.

GG

Ahh, that is the source of my issue. In that religion, the family unit is the center point. The bishop was sparing her the shame of discommunication that comes with divorce, and the pain of never being able to spend eternity with her family in the Celestial Kingdom. It was a very noble thought, but still wrong and stupid in my book.

So, getting back on topic, there are stupid, narrow minded people in this world. They will say and do things that others may find offensive. Try not to let what someone says about you change the way you feel about you. Only you can do that.
We are all guilty of judging others in this manner. gak, when I cited an example in a debate, I was accused of being intolerant and having a flawed argument. Why do we as a planet find it so wrong to talk about the religious flaws in our own cultures? The first step to recovery is acknowledge we have a problem... Instead of simple shutting it out off our minds.

All I wanted to say was that people make stupid mistakes regardless of religion. But when religion is involved, it makes me sad logic was disregarded by choice, not because of ignorance.

www.capalert.com

Not sure if that is the site the OP is referring to but if not, it's a close second. The concept is a good one (protect kids from things you don't want them to see as a parent without having to watch the movie yourself), but the execution is very fanatical and somewhat scary.

Ironically, I go there when I want a good laugh about how a great, wholesome movie like Cars can be riddled with offensive material unsuitable for the holier than thou.

DoW

MeanGreenStompa wrote:If your religion, the specific brand you have chosen to adhere to, says a show is off limits then you don't watch it.

If you question your religion's stance on not watching a tv show or question the wider issue of just why on earth a branch of a religion paying fealty to a universe creator would actually give a toss about a cartoon, you may wish to continue questioning your particular branch of the religion and seeking an alternative and slightly more broadminded branch of the religion.

I listen to what my religion tells me, not those running it. I simply can't listen to the Pope or the Cardinals, who have a serious history of corruption. My religion tells me to be morally correct. My religion tells me to be charitable. My religion tells me to be tolerant. I won't be told what to do by a money-hungry old man who degrades those who have different beliefs!

But yes, you are correct. What does religion have to do with TV shows? Sure, I can see why they'd want a specific level of morality and political correctness on TV, but Family Guy doesn't seem to breach that level to me.

tblock1984 wrote:

youngblood wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Got nothing to do with the Religion, and everything to do with their faith.

See, I am the exact opposite. I tend to think that most peoples faith is correct while the religion (dogma, pointless traditions, culture specific beliefs) sucks. I'm running as fast as I can away from religion. Interesting distinction though.

Agreed, but the line between faith and religion is a fuzzy one. I have faith with no religion, but some think faith IS religion. Like I said above, this can result in some poor decisions making...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:Why is it a bad decision? Its a bad decision to YOU. To them its fine.

I thought people from California were supposed to be tolerant of different viewpoints. I guess not.

You are confusing my willingness to point out stupidity with intolerance.

Oh, by the way, following the church's advice, my mother let my father walk all over her, beat her, etc.
This fostered a lot of pent up resentment and anger in my mom. When he tried to smother her with a pillow so he didn't have to hear her arguing, she fought back.
I called the police when I saw what he was doing.

She left 2 scratches on his arm and collar bone. She had none, he was using a pillow. There was no previous reports of domestic disputes (the church said those would make my dad look bad and might affect his job and our income), so who do you think went to jail.

Yes, I think it was a stupid decision.
/hostility off

By the way Frazz, what are we using as a metric for a "good decision"? This is starting to sound like a moral RAI vs RAW argument.

So you are pretty intolerant then. Gotcha.

@Tblock - I can't believe that in this day and age that people would place religious considerations over the wellbeing of a vunerable and abused woman. Since no-one else seems to give a gak, Ill say it: You and your mother have my deepest sympathies, tblock - no man should have the right to terrorise his family, no matter what the reason.
My father was a violent and aggressive drunk - religion, alchohol...there's no excuse.

So free speech means nothing compared to the passages in a book of unprovable provedence?

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:So free speech means nothing compared to the passages in a book of unprovable provedence?

Translation-slamming religion on Dakka is not permitted youbetcha.

Wasn't meaning that Fraz.

Been quite a few posts suggesting certain things shouldn't be said on the Tellybox, because it's not endorsed by the Bible.

Really? I didn't see those posts on here. Maybe we're both interpreting differently.

JEB_Stuart wrote:

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Ah yes, the Moral Minority sponsored by C.R.A.P.

Stuff them. Their opinions are those of people desperately clutching at straws to justify their own opinion. They slavishly follow a books passages, denying themselves many forms of fun and relaxation. As such, they are incredibly tightly wound, and seeing people such as ourselves enjoying things they feel they aren't allowed really grinds their gears. Therefore, they lash out, criticising any behaviour they see that they really, really want to indulge in, but feel they can't.

It's like the colossal idiocy of those who argue homosexuality is a choice. This to me only suggests that they have found themselves sexually attracted to a member of their own sex, and then made their choice to live a lie, rather than admit they too are Gay. It's nonsensical behaviour, and all based off a book.

The cynicism that drips from your point of view is nowhere near the reality that most Christians, I can't speak for other religions, live in. Why do you hate something so much, especially when it provides hope and faith to billions? I am all for someone having their own opinion, but you border on the irresponsible by constantly trashing other peoples beliefs and belittling their intellect. It is completely disrespectful and uncalled for. If you have to make yourself feel more confident in your own beliefs by trashing those of others, then fine, but please don't do it here. You should try to be tolerant of others' opinions and beliefs, and not treat them like gak all the time. Just my two cents....

You know, how is it that voicing our opinions on religion are "uncalled for" i think its stupid to believe that some sky fairy made the world in 6 days and on the 7th enjoyed a nice martini. Im going to say so. I think its stupid that people don't look critically at a book they claim to live their life by. I'm going to say so. I don't respect religious beliefs, i do respect religious people when they are deserving of respect Archbishop Desmond Tutu, for example, someone truly deserving of respect, his beliefs about religion however, are not.

for me to claim to respect religious beliefs would be a lie. And considering that the vast majority of religious people refuse to respect my religious rights (to not have one) i don't see why I should respect them?

Respect is not something you get for free, it is something that has to be earned, While certain religious people have earned it, Religion as an institution and an idea has not.

This thread is closed.