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I could see it as a Tyranid count-as, but not SW.

RxGhost wrote:You've got some nice converted stuff in your gallery, don't you think you could have done better than:

ph34r wrote:Way too much of a stretch. Sorry, but that's a no-go.

Possibly some recommendations on pig iron weapons upgrades for the leezards?

Alright, I'll go into a bit more depth as to why this really is a stretch.
Lizardmen have no armor. SM have the heaviest armor given to basic troops in 40k. You would need to do some serious conversion to convince anyone that your lizardmen deserve a 3+ armor save. Giving them bolters or similar counts-as weaponry would be the easy part.
The biggest problem is that Warhammer 40k stuff is made of armor and metal and lizardmen are made of meat. If you wanted to proxy lizardmen as something you would be better off with tyranids, really. Lizardmen -> tyranids fits well.

Dear lord your people are a swarm of jerks.



On a side note to the OP, now listen carefully please. MAKE SURE YOU WRITE WHAT YOU MEAN! NOT WRITE SOMETHING VAGUE AND LEAVE THE IMPRESSION THAT YOU WANT STRAIT LIZARDMEN TO BE A SM COUNTS AS!!!


If you convert them heavily, give them guns that could be a stat of a boltgun, give them some armor that can half ass look like a 3+ save, then yes go for it.
Really my only complaint is, why the hell do you need ANOTHER SM type army anyways? 4 SM armies isnt enough for you or what?

Sounds like many people haven't really gotten one of the basic ideas behind the hobby (Not the GW "hobby") which is to be creative, do things you like, express yourself. If I read the OPs post correctly he/she asked for "comments" and "advice" not whine about the game mechanics etc.

I say go for it as long as the models are suitably armed (blowpipes are a no-no, get the skings bolters OK). Someone said somewhere "I can put bananas to the ears of my spess mehreens and I can write fluff to make it OK".

Armour is a problem, but you can say they have evolved on a backwater unobtanium rich planet and have grown diamonide scales. And they use riot shields.

As long as you can pull it off with war-gear-representatives and all of the rules are represented well on the model, then go for it.
Like kaapelikala said, your supposed to be creative. I've only been playing for about a year and i think your army will be amazing if pulled off correctly.
And all of these power-players who wouldn't be able to do anything remotely this creative need to stay off of p&m forums.

Gutteridge wrote: i might as well get some dwarfs for space marines

they where called squats....and as far as I knew they had power armor.

back to the OP.

well it is your army as I said before, and I will stick to my guns, but I believe the Stegs are just too big to be dreads, at least Carns can fit on the same base as one. either way I am dying to see the first of your Grey Lizards(Grey Hunters Count as). down with the nay-sayers, Booers and Hissers, forth with the modded army.

to be honest I had thought about doing something close to this, the idea was scrapped, but I am very much interested to see how someone else trying it will do.

KingCracker wrote:...
Really my only complaint is, why the hell do you need ANOTHER SM type army anyways? 4 SM armies isnt enough for you or what?

Apparently not, no. From all my trading, I ended up with about 10000pts in space marines. After painting my first army, I realized I could never paint all of them that same way, it'd be too boring. So I split them up into different armies each with different focus and unit selection, etc. I might still have enough bodies for 2K in Raven Guard but I don't have a good technique for black that doesn't use too much ink.

Man, dakka really seems to have a stick up its ass since SW came out. If I had just started coming here, posts like these would make me not want to bother reading Dakka.

But onto the actual topic, I'm going to second Garuss' post, and Add that if your going to use Cold One Cav for the TWC, use the new Dark Elf cold ones, they look so much better then the old Cold one models that the Lizardman range still has. This won't be the first time I've seen Lizards in 40k, and I doubt it will be the last. In most of the previous conversions I've seen, modelers used the Firewarrior chest piece to get Lizards their Armor.

Good Luck

Man anyone upset by lizardmen in 40k isnt worth playing..

The picture above is cooler then all the space wolves on the planet combined.. gogo squats

My suggestion is give them guns.

ph34r wrote:Way too much of a stretch. Sorry, but that's a no-go.

QFT

I have never liked anything that is "counts-as" unless it is just a temporary proxy while you are finishing an army. I am going to have to go with ph34r on this one and just for good measure:

ph34r wrote:Way too much of a stretch. Sorry, but that's a no-go.

it sort of reminds me of H'rud I could care lesss what race they are but,,,BUT,,,I wouldn't play you unless they were mounted correctly WYSIWYG and the models reperasent something similiar to what they were originall meant to do like terradons the fasat outriders would be similiar to land speeders (of course they would have to be beefed up a lot more)

As long as it is WYSIWYG it's cool. Modelling pseudo-power armor would be the hardest part.

Lizardmen --> IG can be done pretty well.

But Lizards --> SMurfs... If you could pull off the power armor is would work.

Keep your filthy square-based models out of our 40k, Hobbit-lover!

That said...give them guns, armor, and round bases and I don't see why it wouldn't work. It would be confusing, but not really impossible I would say. All depends on how good of a modeler you are.

Cyporiean wrote:Man, dakka really seems to have a stick up its ass since SW came out.

No, it's always been like this.

Still, if you want bile and expectoration, go to the 'new' BoLS forum and try to discuss playing 40k with non-GW models.

If you wanted my honest opinion (this is just my feelings towards the subject) i wouldn't play against your army, the idea of it is just stupid sorry.

I think if your going to do a counts as army and you wanted to stick with the whole lizardmen that you would have to greenstuff the hell out of them with armor and stuff. Honestly I agree that I wouldnt play against your army because the problem with many "counts as" armies is their not WYSIWYG and it can be very confussing in a game and lead to much unsportsmenlike conduct. Thus making it unfun for all people playing. It's your dollar do with the army as you want so if you want to go with the idea then by all means, but dont get upset if your opponent who has spent their money too doesnt want to play you, and in a tourney or any event like atmospher they would have a legitimate claim to the organizer not too.

this is what i think you have to make it look sorta like
just take out the tau'ish stuff and turn it into a SW

Well, it's not as though he was going nuts and trying to play Fantasy Elves in 40k...

Oh. Wait. Eldar.

Well, he's not trying to do Wood Elves riding Dinosaus in 40k at least.

Oh. Wait. Exodites

Well, at least he's not trying to play Dwarves in 40k...

Oh, wait. Squats/Demiurge.

And it's not as though there were ever any Slann mentioned in 40k, ones that might make Lizard like servants to protect them. Nope. They certainly aren't mentioned here http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Slann


It's this point that Nicholas Cage and his bird hair shows up to tell everyone there arguments are invalid.

I like the idea, but I don't see this working with exisiting models. This is gonna involve a lot of scratch building to represent a proper bolt gun. I do agree that Tyranids might be a better fit, rule wise, for what you want. That said...it's your army. Do as you please. The important bit will be the weapons, making sure they fit both the theme of the army but are equally obviously flamers, bolters or autocannons. I suspect that dragon-ish parts that come with Chaos Marines will be your friend to help Lizard up your armament.

I can understand your attraction to the SW rules. I agree with you there, but I can't help but wonder if you'll be going through a lot of trouble for nothing. This is why. Space Wolves is the latest and greatest thing on the market, and with all the hype happening over the Space Wolves, I wonder how long in will be until other marines are updated to a similar standard. Maybe wait and see what updates and new codexes are planned before taking on the project.

Even waiting is not your style this is what I would say to conversion.
Chop the heads and arms off and put them on a body. Most GW torsos are one piece, so which ever body you like the most go with that. Basically, just do kit mashing.

I do have some questions, and they are questions you may want to give clear answers to clear up all the confusion.
Who are these creatures? What is their background? Why are they good in close combat? What technology do they have that gives them the save of a marine?

I'm not a huge fan of this sort of total 'counts-as' but I don't think it's a crime or anything. If you want to do it, go for it! Orks might be a better fit than SW though, you wouldn't have to convert armour to the same extent. I would avoid using creatures for non-walker vehicles, there would be too many instances in every game where the rules make it seem too silly (vehicles can't be locked in combat or attack back when people try to bash them up). Oh, and you'd better get round bases.

Shields might be a good idea to represent 3+ armour, bionics as well. I nominate the kroot rifle to be the 'counts-as' bolter. I think the hardest bit will be developing a distinctive style of vehicle - apart from the obvious SM/IG/Ork kits, which people might look at and just think 'oh, he's taken a chimera and glued reptilian skulls to the side. *yawn*' perhaps you should look at alternate Sci-fi models or historical tank models.

I think the most important thing is to develop a consistent system of weapons and upgrades so that regular opponents can tell your units' options at a glance. This will let strangers run into you and see a guy with a cool, original idea for a new 40k species, as opposed to a guy who picked up a bunch of lizardmen at a garage sale and stuck 40k bits to them.

Lizardmen have no armor. SM have the heaviest armor given to basic troops in 40k. You would need to do some serious conversion to convince anyone that your lizardmen deserve a 3+ armor save. Giving them bolters or similar counts-as weaponry would be the easy part.
The biggest problem is that Warhammer 40k stuff is made of armor and metal and lizardmen are made of meat. If you wanted to proxy lizardmen as something you would be better off with tyranids, really. Lizardmen -> tyranids fits well.

Their scales are as hard as tank armor.

It could work, works for some Tyranids anyway doesn't it? They're made of "meat", too.

Sidstyler wrote:

Lizardmen have no armor. SM have the heaviest armor given to basic troops in 40k. You would need to do some serious conversion to convince anyone that your lizardmen deserve a 3+ armor save. Giving them bolters or similar counts-as weaponry would be the easy part.
The biggest problem is that Warhammer 40k stuff is made of armor and metal and lizardmen are made of meat. If you wanted to proxy lizardmen as something you would be better off with tyranids, really. Lizardmen -> tyranids fits well.

Their scales are as hard as tank armor.

It could work, works for some Tyranids anyway doesn't it? They're made of "meat", too.

Their meat doesn't have an armor value...



I think when it comes to the whole count as wolves "bandwagon" it really falls to the artist "re-imagining" the wolves to sell people on the concept. People will more than likely be a bit blunter about an idea being lame on the internet than in person but there really is an area where you have to have some respect for very basic WYSIWYG rules. If I played against a count as wolves’ army with lizardman models I would hope that I see bolters and other imperial weaponry at the very least and it would be nice to have a good idea what everything represents without requiring a lengthy explanation. Some wargear in almost every codex are a bit more abstract and as such leave a bit of creative head room. I tend not to like art house movies because for the most part they're too reliant on some pseudo-intellectual droning on about their own subjective understanding of what the movie symbolized and what each character represented and blah blah blah for them to be comprehensible at even a basic level. If one has to inject that much of themselves into an army for it to be understood I'm really not interested in playing against it. Just saying.




Good Scenario:

Me: “so that psyker lookin dude with the axe counts as a rune priest with a frost axe?”

Other person: “yes”

Me: “cool, easy enough to remember”


Bad Scenario

Me: “so that dinosaur lookin thing with the big ass drum on it is a …land raider?”

Other person: “well you see in m3106.28 the jokaero made pact with the slan to engineer the… similar to two twin linked lascannons and a heavy bolter… “

Me: “I’m gonna go stand over there, please don’t make eye contact with me”

See, exactly what Crablezworth said! Counts-as doesn't piss me off if everything's consistent, vehicles are vehicles, infantry are infantry, bikes are bikes, and everything has the right weapons or very easily identified equivalents. Really weird, arcane, 'this dude's magic stick is a meltagun, that dude's magic stick is a flamer' explanations would make any game a huge drag.

If the conversions are good enough no-one will care.

I say cyber lizards!!!!

chainspears and boltpipes!!!!!

LOL!

DC

saying dont do these is like saying dont do squats .
lizardmen in space! how radiculous, but dwarfs in space, nah thats an obviously awsome idea.

seriosuly, your idea is golden!

the pig iron guns look suitable lo-tec/hi-tec blen for skinks. in a saura hands they would look like uzis though. stegadons for dreads is a good idea though. remember though, they would sufficiently need GS/plasticard armour to look tough enough.

perhaps use each unit as the following.

skinks as scouts simple really give them maybe shoulderbads or something, and maybe pigiron guns and theyd look great.

sauras as your average marine...needs a bit of armour though....maybe a large riot shield to convey lots of armour?

temple guard in my opinion would be more wolf guard.....

kroxigors would be great assault terminators given the right weapons.

skyclaws would be great terradon riders and for land speeders a larger dragon shaped thing might be more suitable.

you know my oppinion on the awsome steggie idea....

coldones, thunder cavalry.....

it all works out, and if done correctly will look absolutely amazing

What I'm doing is making a CSM army that uses space wolf rules. All of the mounted characters will use chaos knight horses, and they will all use a lot of Warriors of Chaos pieces for the theme, but they will have obvious things like SM backpacks, and bolters, and such mixed with the fantasy parts.

RxGhost wrote:I'm thinking about a counts as army for space wolves, mostly because I hate them but I'm interested in using their rules.

Also, I want to turn my 5th ed Lizardman Army into a 40K force.

Saurus = Grey Hunters/Blood Claws
Skinks = Wolf things
Stegadons = Predators?
Terradons = Land Speeders

Any suggestions?

The best way to approach something like this on Dakka is to create a mockup of one soldier and post a pic for feedback. Otherwise you're counting on people's imaginations to be in synch with yours as far as how much conversion will be involved. If you do a good job people will suspend their skepticism. If not, you'll be ridiculed. It's the way of the interwebs I'm afraid.

Good luck!

I was going to make a Werewolf army using Confrontation models, but I couldn't decide on what to use as Grey Hunters (since all the Wolfen from that line would be used as TWC).

I think I've stated enough that I think you should do Lizardmen as Tyranids instead... regardless of what you decide, make sure you throw up some pictures!