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Frazzled wrote:I finally saw a bit of one of her videos. Someone call me when she can actually sing or write a song.
Madonna did it better 25 freaking years ago.
Twenty five years ago, you probably said: "Someone call me when Madonna can sing or write a song. Now those Beatles, they knew how to write songs."
Twenty five years before that, it was probably "Those British ninnies couldn't sing their way out of a paper sack, give me Woodie Guthrie back!"
. . . skip some time . . .
"This Beethoven chap could not compose a sonata-form symphony if a commission from the Archduke of Luxembourg depended upon it. Let us return to the era of Mozart, huzzah!"
. . . all the way back to . . .
"Frazz no like sound of plucked string. Frazz like rock beating on log."
I was going to say "just picked high profile people" but I think this chick has a shot. Fame has trailblazed as a forceful pop-apologetics and I look forward to seeing where "Bad Romance" takes us. If anything (of lasting importance) at all had happened to pop music in the '90s, Gaga might be meaningless. But here we are.
Acid-House?
Grunge?
Brit-pop - ok, you may laugh but Blur and Oasis still sell tons of records and tickets.
Radiohead are still one of the world's biggest and most influential bands.
I just don't think Gaga has 'legs' - Madonna at least had decent songwriting behind her and was hot. Gaga has neither of these things.
@Albatross: I laugh at all your choices! In a friendly sort of way, of course. Grunge was a blip. Acid House, res ipsa loquitor. Brit-pop: *sigh* I know you'll especially hate to hear this, but I'm not impressed with anything that comes out of the UKqua phenomenon until it's huge in the US. I just don't think UK has the population or cultural diversity to qualify entertainers as super stars. (I think the history of rock/pop bears me out on this score but that may change--we'll all be listening to the Chinese Britney Spears soon.) Radiohead sells records, fine. But I'm talking about an Elvis/Madonna/MJ figure here and bands have never been conducive to that sort of stardom. Just ask Ozzy. You may have a point about Gaga's survivability. I always qualify my optimism about her by wondering if anyone will care whether there's a third album or not. She'll have to stay fresh and when you start as fresh as she is it can be a difficult road.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/12/01 00:48:37
The Haus of Gaga shall rise and conquer all! She's an extremely creative song writer. Do her lyrics explore the depths of the human soul, reaching deep in our minds to uncover our darkest fears and deepest desires? Yes and no. If you "know" her, then very much so. If you're hearing it on the radio saying "what the @#!$ is this crap?" then no. I started out as the latter and over the course of time I "discovered" her, and have been inspired by her ever since. I don't expect everyone should get it
I just don't think UK has the population or cultural diversity to qualify entertainers as super stars.
(sigh)
The Beatles
Pink Floyd
The Rolling Stones
The Who
The Police/Sting
Elton John
The Sex Pistols
The Clash
Genesis/Phil Collins
Yes
Elvis Costello
Tom Jones... I could go on.
That's not even starting on actors.
You are wrong. Sorry.
Also, grunge was not a blip - it caused a fundamental musical and aesthetic shift in popular music, the effects of which are still being felt today. Grunge was the last meaningful sub-genre of music to come fom the USA. America's music scene is a joke at present - who is there who is half decent (that didn't make it in the UK first)? The UK's music scene has always been and will always be the worlds most fertile breeding ground for talent, whether home-grown or foreign. I could just as easily list quite a lot of bands that had to come from America to Britian in order to 'make it'. And why were American awards ceremonies flooded with Brit artists last year?
Britain has always punched above it's weight, culturally speaking.
Albatross wrote: . . . a list of people who became super stars because Americans loved them . . .
I don't mean that you can't produce them just that you don't have the audience they require.
Also, grunge was not a blip - it caused a fundamental musical and aesthetic shift in popular music, the effects of which are still being felt today.
Grunge went away--cut off the head and the body dies. If by "shift" you mean so-called "alternative" music, that's also dead now. Well, a very large number of white people still listen to Radio Head, like you said.
The UK's music scene has always been and will always be the worlds most fertile breeding ground for talent.
For pop aimed at white people, agreed. Everything else, not so much.
Britain has always punched above it's weight, culturally speaking.
If "punching" means popping out bands like Cold Play, agreed. If "weight" means population, also agreed.
Here, I made you a diagram:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/12/01 09:24:40
Sure, my point was that complexity is not what makes music great. I'll quote my former bette noire, Albatross, about that wondrous piece of music to which we owe our detente:
Albatross wrote:Talent, for me, lies in making that which is simple, beautiful. That piece isn't difficult to play on the Piano, but I couldn't have written it in a million years!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/12/01 10:12:07
Yea well all I have to say is things went steadily down hill after Brahms. Everyone is else is just wannabees.
Manchu wrote:
"Frazz no like sound of plucked string. Frazz like rock beating on log."
True that. I'm looking at getting a Marumba for Pitmaster Z.
Oh wow I didn't know they were filming. this is taken from my house- a charity concertette. SWMBO runs by. If you look in the back you can see an old homeless looking guy with a shotgun making people get off his lawn.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwcqLR7E9wc&feature=related
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2009/12/01 12:48:26
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
IvanTih wrote:Lady Gaga will never match technical complexity of neo-classical metal.
Which is interesting because the other half of what I listen to is Prog Rock/Metal :p I lsiten to it for complexity, and Gaga and extremely limited other pop and dance music for energy, passion and basic inspiration. Not everything has to be one way. I like a lot of artists that I consider really crappy in terms of technical skill. It doesn't mean I don't enjoy them though And Gaga has more skill and genius than, as previously mentioned, anyone will discover by hearing a few songs on the radio.
Also, arguing that British pop is somehow the greatest thing ever would be like me arguing that Texas country is the best thing ever; pure fanboyism.
Also, classical playing and playing by ear/modern methods/I-learned-a-couple-chords-I'ma-guitar-god-lolololoool!!!! are not the THE SAME THING. They have two completely different goals in mind. Many rock bands could care less about getting every song exactly the same way every time, just as most classically trained musicians have no interest in just going out there and playing whatever comes to mind. Very rarely we get Dream Theater and the worlds meet in the best way possible
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/12/01 14:00:30
Ahhhh my eyes and my ears! You evil evil man Wll I know now who wil NOT be reciving any mercy when Amragedon shows up! Anyways back on topic, not my musical flavor but each to his own taste, Im sure someone likes this music(Slaanesh cult members most likly) PURGE THEM BROTHERS
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
IvanTih wrote:Lady Gaga will never match technical complexity of neo-classical metal.
Which is interesting because the other half of what I listen to is Prog Rock/Metal :p I lsiten to it for complexity, and Gaga and extremely limited other pop and dance music for energy, passion and basic inspiration. Not everything has to be one way. I like a lot of artists that I consider really crappy in terms of technical skill. It doesn't mean I don't enjoy them though And Gaga has more skill and genius than, as previously mentioned, anyone will discover by hearing a few songs on the radio.
Also, arguing that British pop is somehow the greatest thing ever would be like me arguing that Texas country is the best thing ever; pure fanboyism.
Also, classical playing and playing by ear/modern methods/I-learned-a-couple-chords-I'ma-guitar-god-lolololoool!!!! are not the THE SAME THING. They have two completely different goals in mind. Many rock bands could care less about getting every song exactly the same way every time, just as most classically trained musicians have no interest in just going out there and playing whatever comes to mind. Very rarely we get Dream Theater and the worlds meet in the best way possible
I dislike pop,but I tolerate it.
Hail to the creeeeeeeeeeeeeeed!baby Ask not the moot a question,for he will give you three answers,all of which will result in a public humiliation.
Also, arguing that British pop is somehow the greatest thing ever would be like me arguing that Texas country is the best thing ever; pure fanboyism.
I never said that. But you could make a case for it .
. . . a list of people who became super stars because Americans loved them . . .
I don't mean that you can't produce them just that you don't have the audience they require.
No, but the rest of the world does - there are quite a few British bands that sell tons of records in places like Germany, France, Australia and Japan to name but a few. I also forgot to add Queen to that list - they were truly world famous, yet didn't do much in the USA in the 80's when they were arguably at the height of their powers.
Grunge went away--cut off the head and the body dies. If by "shift" you mean so-called "alternative" music, that's also dead now. Well, a very large number of white people still listen to Radio Head, like you said.
The music of the initial Grunge bands might have waned, but the cultural impact of it can still be felt in modes of dress, speech and attitudes - see 'modern Emo' and QOTSA for more details. Plus Pearl Jam are still huge, Alice in Chains still sell records. Foo Fighters are fairly 'grunge', IMO.
For pop aimed at white people, agreed. Everything else, not so much.
If my study of Popular Musicology has taught me one thing, it's that pop IS aimed at white people. Always has been, always will be. It doesn't matter who makes it. Just look at Motown.
If "punching" means popping out bands like Cold Play, agreed. If "weight" means population, also agreed.
If I have to mention Shakespeare, Football, The Beatles and the english language in general, then I will. Don't make me.
Obama's half British - that's why we love him!
P.s - I've never been someone's 'bete noire' before - mother WILL be pleased.
Albatross wrote:I also forgot to add Queen to that list - they were truly world famous, yet didn't do much in the USA in the 80's when they were arguably at the height of their powers
lol wut? This is not how it has always been told to me.
As for this "English language in general" business, don't bother embarrassing us both. The Germans invented one half and the French the other.
Well, it seems that we basically agree. Declining white populations all over all over Europe and North America love British music. I simply argue further that if a Britisher really wants to be a star, he or she will need to convince the growing number of non-whites (predominately in the United States) that they are worth listening to . . . something that is growing increasingly difficult for British groups.
@Manchu - And the best way of doing that is by being famous in Britain first. It's the international situation in microcosm - America is bigger, but Britain is 'cooler'.
Yeah, Queen's popularity declined in the USA after 'I Want To Break Free' - the video caused problems for them in the States, record sales dropped so they stopped touring there.
So if X invents a paintbrush and Y invents paint - do I not get credit for painting the Mona Lisa?
Wll I know now who wil NOT be reciving any mercy when Amragedon shows up! Anyways back on topic, not my musical flavor but each to his own taste, Im sure someone likes this music(Slaanesh cult members most likly) PURGE THEM BROTHERS 
