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Grots are better trained and equipped than your average PDF.

Kanluwen wrote:Grots are better trained and equipped than your average PDF.

Heresy.

I agree that the PDF would be the ones to maintain a navy.

A scenario working its way around my head at the moment is assaulting an Oil Derek. These things are too expensive and valuable to just bomb to hell and back from orbit, and it is too easy to mount AA guns on them for an air drop where most craft would have to stay stationary while troops repel down and drop pods would punch right through it. So you would at least need troop landers to secure it, this means destroyer and Patrol boat escorts...etc.

Another one off the top of my head; not all debris from space hits land. Imagine a Titan drop that was under fire and landed two hundred miles off the coast line. In order to rescue it (because it's far too valuable to leave) you would need a stationary force over the water to build a super structure to winch it up also to provide real-time danger close support that would not be possible from orbit.

And take it easy on the PDF... Most of them joined to avoid the draft

Just to chuck these tidbits in. I think it was in the third war for Armegeddon, a sizeable ork force landed right out in the badlands, Imperial strategists couldnt work out why and promptly dismissed
them. Right up to the point where they suddenly surfaced from the sea in submarines and took the docks and one of the hives within hours. There is also fluff about the tau having underwater colonies that required space marines to use Land Raiders to engage them under water. Soul Drinkers novel also has a naval battle on a daemon world.
Plus look at Fenris, its in the far future but is a feral world, they raid other clans using longboats.
Naval warfare would be just as effective in the far future and a very effective tactic for both an attacker and a defender.
And with a bit of work makes for a bloody good laugh in a game.

PDF is sometimes useful, hell I can't bring myself to belive it, they simply suck.

belial wrote:Just to chuck these tidbits in. I think it was in the third war for Armegeddon, a sizeable ork force landed right out in the badlands, Imperial strategists couldnt work out why and promptly dismissed
them. Right up to the point where they suddenly surfaced from the sea in submarines and took the docks and one of the hives within hours. There is also fluff about the tau having underwater colonies that required space marines to use Land Raiders to engage them under water. Soul Drinkers novel also has a naval battle on a daemon world.
Plus look at Fenris, its in the far future but is a feral world, they raid other clans using longboats.
Naval warfare would be just as effective in the far future and a very effective tactic for both an attacker and a defender.
And with a bit of work makes for a bloody good laugh in a game.

I know you're not using Fenris as a real example of naval warfare.

The tribes that the Wolves recruit from are so far, technologically, behind even where we are currently that it's not even funny. They fight with sword, axe, and shield. They're on the same tech level as the Vikings.

Of course "naval warfare" plays a part in that---there's no other way for them to really get around.

Kanluwen wrote:Why bother keeping the sea lanes open when the Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy have huge drogues that can be used as aerial platforms for resupply/refueling?

The same reason that most freight goes by sea in the modern world.

It is much cheaper than air/space lifting it.

Orkeosaurus wrote:The Green movement is actually doing quite well throughout the galaxy.

Awesome reply ork, almost spewed coffee.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
on a side note, witch would be more used do you think? underwaret navy or on top of? i can see aircraft carriers being submerible, and once far enough down an enemy will have to actually put a probe down to check if there is anything hiding under the water barrier as it acts as a fairly good sheild from detection, and withthe loss of technology i see this as viable.

A submersible aircraft carrier would be huge and more easily detected than a normal size submarine.

It would take longer to bring aircraft into action than a normal aircraft carrier.

Kanluwen wrote:

belial wrote:Just to chuck these tidbits in. I think it was in the third war for Armegeddon, a sizeable ork force landed right out in the badlands, Imperial strategists couldnt work out why and promptly dismissed
them. Right up to the point where they suddenly surfaced from the sea in submarines and took the docks and one of the hives within hours. There is also fluff about the tau having underwater colonies that required space marines to use Land Raiders to engage them under water. Soul Drinkers novel also has a naval battle on a daemon world.
Plus look at Fenris, its in the far future but is a feral world, they raid other clans using longboats.
Naval warfare would be just as effective in the far future and a very effective tactic for both an attacker and a defender.
And with a bit of work makes for a bloody good laugh in a game.

I know you're not using Fenris as a real example of naval warfare.

The tribes that the Wolves recruit from are so far, technologically, behind even where we are currently that it's not even funny. They fight with sword, axe, and shield. They're on the same tech level as the Vikings.

Of course "naval warfare" plays a part in that---there's no other way for them to really get around.

The point of using the Fenris situation was merely to point out that there are different circumstances where ships are used.
Yes its not 'naval warfare' in the strictest sense , but it shows circumstances where seafaring occurs in the grimdark.
Plus they hunt great big squid in wooden boats. Daft buggers.

Kilkrazy wrote:A submersible aircraft carrier would be huge and more easily detected than a normal size submarine.

It would take longer to bring aircraft into action than a normal aircraft carrier.

I agree it would be bigger, but i dont think it would be easier to detect becasue of this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermocline
big things hide in bigger things (an ocean is huge with many ways to hide in it.). i think imperial naval vessals would excel in suprise surface launcehes of aircraft from a aircraft sub. the size and deployment speed would not be to great a factor if say sealed launch bays we used in conjuction with catapults. now mind im looking at this from a counter attack thing from a defensive point of view.

Kilkrazy wrote:Airships are useless because they are too slow and vulnerable to AA fire.

Tell that to the Squat Overlord.

Squats are useless because they are too slow and vulnerable to Tyranid swarms.