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I think the biggest effect it will have (certainly on tournament play) is that it will force a change in peoples weapon loadouts.

Mech will still be the way to go for most armies but heavy anti-mech fire loadouts will suffer from lack of shots against the bugs.

The armies I can see doing well here are horde orks (particularly with kan-spam thrown in) and maybe artillery-heavy guard. There again, Mechdar (and even Tau if used well) can nail both these. The merry-go-round continues...

Lootas in battlewagons make new tyranids cry.

Seriously, with less emphasis on 2+ saves (it seems) the sheer weight of fire that 30-45 lootas churn out should really thrash 'nids. I don't play Orks or Nid so I may be talking out my ass.

I suppose they will make me bring out my Hellhounds some more again.

Yeah, I'm liking a lot that I'm not going to have to deal with any extended carapace anymore. It means my krak missiles and flamers can do what they're designed for.

Vulkan should be cheering in glee, meltas for the bigger bugs, flamers for the smaller, and thunder hammers for the biggest bugs.

The nids might effect other lists to alter their style while Vulkan lists might get to ride it out and become more efficient due to other armies changing to include nids as enemies.

I don't think peoples lists will change too much to be honest. The counters that people should already include in their armies are just as usefull against tyranids. I do think Tyranids could be a decent spoiler in the current metagame, being able to operate fairly un phased by all the short ranged anti-tank and now being able to pop transports from range a bit more readily via hive guard and zoanthropes. All the sneaky ways tyranids can deploy will be a big factor also, and I don't think all the implications have been worked out just yet.

Will likely be awhile till nid players adjust though. I know I have a long list of updates needed just based on the limited rumors so far.

I can see more space marine lists incorparating Sternguard into their lists. It's just to good of a Monstrous creature killer.

The list I see the most out of this codex really is a drop death.

The ability to Deep Strike 3 Monstrous , 20 man squads of Genestealers , Ymmargi Genestealers , hive Tyrants as well as having Raveners and Gargoyles is pretty ridiculous.


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edit: Add to the fact that Lictor Squads apparently are no longer 0 - 1 and you have the ability to drop Zoanthropes as well with STR 10 Lances etc..

Its pretty nasty and fits well within a 1500 limit having 4 monstrous creatures.

The problem I have with the pod heavy list is by the sounds of it there is no drop pod assault rule or similar (this is unconfirmed though). While that has some advantages, the problem will be getting your anti-tank in time to really matter. Not saying spores won't rock face (eg. I think my 3 non nerfed magnetized fexes are destined to pod for the next few years), I am just reserving judgement till we see the full rules.

Not having the DPA rule is a huge bonus, actually. Depending on when Lictors are deployed, and if they or other Hive Tyrants stack with the Hive Tyrant's +1 reserves rule, you could have a turn 2 DPA with +2 on the roll. That would be the best drop pod army in 40k.

Agree that there may be issues with extensive use of the mycetic spores, but 2 hive Tyrants in spores along with 3 Carnifexes, 3 Zoanthropes, and 120 little bugs coming drop podding on turn 2 on a 2+ reserve roll seems quite sound.

Hollismason wrote:

Add to the fact that Lictor Squads apparently are no longer 0 - 1 and you have the ability to drop Zoanthropes as well with STR 10 Lances etc..

If this becomes common, then I can see finding points for the old inquisitor + mystics and a unit of Grey Knight Terminators with psycannons in my list. If the Zoan's rumored 3+ invulnerable is their *only* save, then DH will be able to rip them up.

It actually works out really well. The Drop Pods are not vehicles they can fire that weapon when they drop in which is ST6 assault 2 i believe.

The next is the Tyanid Hive Tyrant does give +1 to reserve rolls so just leave everything in reserve and drop most of your army in on the 2nd turn.

Pretty great actually.

The Mawloc is inexpensive enough to have 3 of them in a 1500 to 2000k list plus it hits with a ST 6 large blast template.


I havent seen it yet but supposedly lictors still allow either a +1 or a reroll of reserves so if that is true then +2 to reserves if it stacks.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I missed something. Nid's are getting drop pods?

Mycetic spores. Biological drop pods that carry either 1 big bug or 20 little bugs. Huge alpha strike potential with stacking reserve bonuses and no DPA rule requiring half of them to deploy 1st turn.

JOTWW had about 2 months of actual nid killing effectiveness. Now it'll have more expensive MCs to target, MCs that will be padded with drop podding shadow of the warp.

As for what guns will get less popular, and what will get more popular, it is hard to say. Plasma guns look more enticing to put wounds on monstrous creatures, but meltaguns still stay attractive thatnks to their ability to ID warriors, raveners and zoanthropes.

As Sourclams has said, if you have a unit that 'should' be in a transport, it'll have to buy that transport... but I'll add the caveat that there are plenty of modern infantry units in competitive 40k that don't need to mech up. If you are a choppy marine with counter-attack and power fist (see grey hunter/wolf guard pack leader) then you should just take the charges, similarly to iconned CSM units and IG infantry blobs. Power weapons for sergeants and commissars seem mandatory now though.

All in all, No one i know has been able to decipher the rumors, and come up with an actual list concept. The codex looks to be majorly complex, to Cruddace's credit.

full on drop pod assault with aggressive units seems viable, hybrid drop pod lists also seem very doable. The nid troop choices all seem very viable and the troop FOC seems incredibly flexible (infiltrators, cheap mid-range horde, cheap CC specialists with poison, drop pod access) The real question is... what units are going to be supporting this solid troop suite.

I would disagree slightly with your JotWW outlook:

Shadows of the Warp only has a 12" bubble. Either all the MCs are drop podding/footslogging in one significant clump, or the 24" range of JotWW is still quite potent against I1 Carnifexes. If Carnis are 200 pts base, like the rumors state, however, I think Fex-centric Nidzilla is a thing of the past. They'll probably get venom cannons for long range AT and sit safely back out of range if they have any real role at all. I think range is going to be their best defense from JotWW.

While I only know the following about point totals:

Gaunts, gargoyles: CHEAP!!
Stealers: 14 w/out upgrades
Fexes: 200 base

I would hazard to guess that a mixed force incorporating a solid core of MCs to breach hard units and perform long range anti tank roles surrounded by a swarm of little bugs.

sourclams wrote:Mycetic spores. Biological drop pods that carry either 1 big bug or 20 little bugs. Huge alpha strike potential with stacking reserve bonuses and no DPA rule requiring half of them to deploy 1st turn.

sourclams wrote:1 big bug or 20 little bugs

sourclams wrote:stacking reserve bonuses and no DPA rule requiring half of them to deploy 1st turn

Holy gak. That's got ridiculous potential, and I think there'll be a lot more Inquisitors+Mystics in Imperial armies.

Zoan Lance weapon is not ap 1... It is AP 2.. and only 18" Range..

3++ Inv save.. and most likely only T4..

Shoot them with Missle Launchers + Las cannons.. They fail 1 save.. bye bye Zoan.. Insta killed.

sourclams wrote:
I would hazard to guess that a mixed force incorporating a solid core of MCs to breach hard units and perform long range anti tank roles surrounded by a swarm of little bugs.

It'd be nice to see some good, honest mixed footslogging lists around for once.

Can't really know for sure without seeing the actual new codex but if zerging it up is the new fotm, more flamers and multiple templates like Manticores will be popular. If we have Nidzilla 2.0 which we might with 9 fexs option people will load up on Plasma.

Carnifexes are really expensive a Carnifex in drop pod hits the 200 point mark pretty easily.

However th Mawloc( other version of the trigon) not that expensive plus comes with some nifty abilities as well as the template.

Gargoyles are ridiculous on what their capabilities are.

Anything that has a high toughness is going to get swarmed to death its pretty hilarious.


Oh and Jaws of the World Wolf is kind of pointless from what I have read the big guys can get a " save versus psychic attack"

Spyder68 wrote:Zoan Lance weapon is not ap 1... It is AP 2.. and only 18" Range..

3++ Inv save.. and most likely only T4..

Shoot them with Missle Launchers + Las cannons.. They fail 1 save.. bye bye Zoan.. Insta killed.

I see you missed the post where I pointed out and corrected my mistake
I see them as working like the Drop Podding Sternguard with Combi-Meltas. That's if they Deep Strike, I'm not really familiar with them. They'll work for a while but people will find a way around it.

Give a Psychic hood to the Inquisitor that has the Mystics and the problem is basically solved.

Probably see Fire Dragon Exarchs w/ Hvy Flamers and Crackshot more often.

I think the nids may make lists more flexible alltogether. Assuming the codex will be broken as feared it will contain several viable builds. Thus other armies will have to preper for everything. For guard i think ordnance will make its way back into the lists (can't wait for my medusas... ) and for all armies i guess melta spam will decrease at least slightly.
For imperial armies the podding nids shouldn't be a problem thanks to mystics. Most screwed up will be Necrons and Tau from what I've heard (tau for having no psychic defenses at all and necrons... yep you know why)
Still I'm looking forward to the nids have such a kind of impact. But I may just be biased...

Shep wrote:

full on drop pod assault with aggressive units seems viable, hybrid drop pod lists also seem very doable. The nid troop choices all seem very viable and the troop FOC seems incredibly flexible (infiltrators, cheap mid-range horde, cheap CC specialists with poison, drop pod access) The real question is... what units are going to be supporting this solid troop suite.

My money is on the new hive guard. They offer much more in terms of what nids lack, and they have the toughness and wounds to weather the fire until the big boys arrive in their pods. I would also contemplate dropping zoanthropes (if they can) as a suicide unit. Take out that landraider and the termies are slogging it across the board.

The venomthrope may also be viable. Dropping a load of gaunts next to the enemy and giving them a cover save sounds a quite nice. It also looks like it a buff unit to the little guys, which makes for a nice combo.

With the deepstriking and whatnot, I think Mysticsx2 and a JotWW Runepriest could have some fun.

I think that most armies that are not mech will be forced to be meched. I think that more assault oriented units might start showing up, and units like IG bubblewrap + commisars and kroot walls etc... will be showing up in many more lists.

Flamers will definetially be found on vehicles, but I don't think that the codex will cause people to completely shift their playstyle, spacewolves didn't and I think nids will do the same. I just think people without balanced lists (to handle hordes) will be forced to balance their lists, which is a good thing for them.

First off, I'm not sure JOTWW or any other psychic power can be used with mystics. I'm not saying that they can't, just that I haven't read the rules on it. Isn't it a psychic power that says it happens in the shooting phase?

Anyway, that aside:

One thing that looks like a big deal in the rumors I've seen is hive guard with 2 shots at bs 4, s 8 24", ap not dash. That says to me that a unit of 3 will shoot 6 times, hit 4, do roughly a pen and a glance, and thus have about a 1/3 chance of taking out a rhino. That's a pretty big deal. The only thing Nids have always lacked is the ability to reliably open rhinos from a good distance. If they can do that...esp. combined with the rumored Ymgari Stealers...could be a very very strong list.

Don't forget that Lictors as well as Ymgarri all gain the benefit of just appearing in your deployment zone in terrain and that the Ymgarri can assault the turn they come in to play.

Throw that in with Drop Podding troops and Deepstriking Monstrous creatures.

40kenthusiast wrote:First off, I'm not sure JOTWW or any other psychic power can be used with mystics. I'm not saying that they can't, just that I haven't read the rules on it. Isn't it a psychic power that says it happens in the shooting phase?

Anyway, that aside:

One thing that looks like a big deal in the rumors I've seen is hive guard with 2 shots at bs 4, s 8 24", ap not dash. That says to me that a unit of 3 will shoot 6 times, hit 4, do roughly a pen and a glance, and thus have about a 1/3 chance of taking out a rhino. That's a pretty big deal. The only thing Nids have always lacked is the ability to reliably open rhinos from a good distance. If they can do that...esp. combined with the rumored Ymgari Stealers...could be a very very strong list.

2 Mystic lets unit X shoot at the deep striking unit. Psychic shooting attacks count as shooting a ranged weapon. I see no problem with using Jotww ... only thing is why?
I do agree Murderous Hurricane or Living Lightning x4 would be better after all what are you going to do against 12D6 str3 hits or 4D6 str7 AP5 shots (12-72 41.5av or 4-24 13.5av)

Just to make Trygons/Malowcs cry.