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Emperors Faithful wrote:Do we look like we have orbital support or ships???

Yes.

Really?

I find this most interesting. *skeptical look*

No no no, what we should do is feign welcoming, and then in secret, shoot a rocketship containing a reincarnated Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris and Mr T.

We sit back, and enjoy ourselves.

We must not forget to make the popcorn.

Of course, this is us simply hoping that these almighty figures feel like bashing in some Space Marines rather than us.

I think one point about space marines taking entire planets is that not all planets are equal. A world like Vraks with only one large central settlement (although defended insanely well) is simpler to take than a well populated homeworld. The more defused the world, the more challenging it is going to be. The greater the variety of terrain, the harder. Basically, the 'core' worlds of a race/system are going to be more challenging than a mere settlement. Earth would require significant IG backup to take and hold areas. The SM would be key strikes against important areas, likely those where the resistance is centering.

As for the death planet: Australia is a death continent. We even have lethal stinging trees.

And we have the perfect ambush system.

Emperors Faithful wrote:And we have the perfect ambush system.

IT IS FOOLPROOF! quickly comrades, arm these systems in the ten's of thousands!

Rewision wrote:

ph34r wrote:IG > us in equal numbers, SM > IG even when outnumbered greatly, therefore SM > us.

Except that our communication works, we don't win battles by sending troops wave after wave after wave to get killed and we outnumber them by big 'nuff number so that they eventually run out of ammo, so we can just wear them down.

Hmmmmmmm. I think you should read some historical recounts of our large scale wars, Pasheandal anybody? The soviet union basicaly did exactly that. 40k is inaccurate in many many ways, but sadly some of their tactics are used in the real world. Black library did use some reductum adubsterdum, but the principal is that same.

Also it has often been suggested that earth would capitulate, that is totaly right. It seems that 40k armies all fight till they're all dead. Wilst we do not. To decimate ones army is considered a big defeat, and yet this is only 10% dead. And ya, nuking them is not really an option, beacuse they are attacking us on out planet, no matter how crazy people are, they will not think that nuking our own cities will win us this war.

This war would have almost nothing to do with infantry or even tanks, they are just on another level of technology then us, it's like a pre-gunpowder society fighting tanks. Sure they could sorta compete, but really it's not even remotely fair. Basicaly warship>our combined technology.

Also Emperors Faithful, that is totaly and completly awsome, they would never expect it.

The SM wouldn't be able to hold earth. People could flee to the isolated parts of the world. There are alot of groups and world governements who can't stand when the U.S. get involved in their affairs let alone some SM. This is the sort of thing that might cause people to put aside their differences temperiorly and unite together. The SM wouldn't want to waste resourances on one planet when there are aliens and the forces of chaos out there.

Emperors Faithful wrote:@Ketara: Against a completely alien foe that only wants our annihilation, it may be different.

But against a human-like foe who is offering terms (not that unreasonable terms either) people are more likely to surrender.

Russia didn't surrender even though tens of millions died. Same for China.

Japan and Germany surrenedered only because we had beaten them into the ground. Germany only really surrendered because we invaded.

Fun tidbits
*Vietnam didn't surrender. They won.

*Every punk with $50 has an RPG in Somalia.

*These arguments inevitably revolve around orbital bombardment. Its never the fluffy prowess of marines. Its their ships. Moral of the story-marines are irrelevant, only the ships matter.

*Try the argu ent of ork roks crash landingon earth, which is their style. they don't have orbital bombardment, just the green tide. Who wins then?

V.S Green Tide=We are SCREWED!!!

There is no reason why the space marines would just drop in and start fighting. They obviously have a running knowledge of tactics, they would pound us into submision, then come in and broker peace, or call for extermination. If we were fighting IG, then so help us, cuse you know what they have? CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!

Only you Brits. My Louisiana relatives would have ten different ork recipes within hours. Green Tide vs. Redneck Breakwater...

After all, orks are just truffles that got uppity.

Frazzled wrote:Only you Brits. My Louisiana relatives would have ten different ork recipes within hours. Green Tide vs. Redneck Breakwater...

After all, orks are just truffles that got uppity.

Try explaining that to an ork. See how it goes. Anyways we would be so unprepared for gargants, KFF, SAG, and roks. How would we react to SAG?

Uppity green truffles then.

I would expect something more like "Green-Man Pie"

(shudders)

Frazzled wrote:

Emperors Faithful wrote:@Ketara: Against a completely alien foe that only wants our annihilation, it may be different.

But against a human-like foe who is offering terms (not that unreasonable terms either) people are more likely to surrender.

Russia didn't surrender even though tens of millions died. Same for China.

Japan and Germany surrenedered only because we had beaten them into the ground. Germany only really surrendered because we invaded.

So you're saying that the average sane country would not capitulate?

I mean, maybe North Korea and some other crazy countrie (State of Texas) but for the most part when nations have a way out that doesn't involve a fight to the death that they will lose, they will pick surrender. I'm not saying that all manner of resisitance groups wouldn't sprout up, but entire functioning countries would throw themselves against this new foe.

for a start I want to say, it would 40k versus 3K! not 2k unless you wanna be fighting with muskets, bows and arrows and spears. Also, I'm going to just admit that we'd be screwed:
1. Space marines maybe a chance if its only one chapter
2. Orks, we don't have a chance
3. Tau, you think we'd go alright but really Tau are just humans with extremely long range guns
4. Dark Eldar, probably be alright
5. Eldar, I'd like to see you go up against a wraithlord
6. Tyranids, we're gone
7. Imperial guard are humans with bigger explosions, so we're gone
8. Chaos, we're gone, humans are too easily scared to go up against demons and massed cultists


Automatically Appended Next Post:
9. Necrons, we're screwed


Automatically Appended Next Post:
excuse me, I meant 41K


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah, I take that back, Space Marines?: we're gone

It's 40k vs 2k, not the 40th millennium vs the 2nd, which should be 41st vs 3rd. The thread title is correct as is.

I find it interesting that no one in this thread considered the fact that Tau have Battlesuits, us fighting one would be just like the battle scene at the end of District 9 if anyone has seen the movie, and let me tell you, Tau love their battlesuits.

To throw my £0.02/$0.02 into the melting pot, I don't think we'd stand a chance - for these reasons:

1) Most arguments that are given regarding the current World's armies being better equipped and trained with better tactics etc. are looking at the tabletop representation of the 40k world, and not the fluff. They do employ sophisticated tactics, arguablly much more advanced than ours - with the amount of wars fought since 2k, they've had time to perfect it. The average guardsman is better trained, meaner, and a lot harder than your average soldier.
2) As people have already mentioned, you can take out Marines with Sabor Rounds/RPGs etc. Well probably not. Power Armour is made of a fictisous material, so there is a creative lisence on how impervious it is. Similarly, the fluff clearly shows Marines do not have an issue with the much more advanced anti-tank weaponary of the Guard; in Gaunts Ghosts, in mentions in battle about entire companies (is that right?) being re-deployed or diverted because of the presence of a Marine/Chaos Marine. Does this mean the weapons can't pierce their armour? Perhaps their reflexes, vision and aim are so super human, no one, no matter how well concealed they think they are, can actually get a shot off.
3) Quite an important one this: All of our weapons, all of our technology, and all of our tactics and strategies are exclusively for fighting a war against an enemy from another location on Earth. Hell, even our air based weaponry and tactics are less than a Century old! In all cases, we'll be up against an enemy for who orbital assault is common, and have been doing it for a longer than recorded Civilisation on Earth.

This is like a debate between carribean island natives on whether Colonial soldiers can defeat them and their spears; just before the Warships destroy them from the coast. If they did attack us, our top secret nuculear installations would be neutralised before we even knew there was a threat, and orbital bombardments/titans/etc. would take care of any cohesive fighting formation, Astartes would cut the head off any military organisation, and the innumerous regiments of Guard will take care of the rest.

If it's Orks, well, perhaps we could win if the force attacking us was very small compared to our forces; but then we'd have the problem with a nigh-permanent Ork presence due to spores etc.

Not sure what fluff you're referring to. The fluff I've read for Orks and humies would make Napoleon cry. "Everybody charge!" hasn't worked since Waterloo. Ask Pickett.

I dont think we'd stand a chanche against any of them.

But why would they bother invading Earth? The planets heating up (it would be awfully sweaty in terminator suits) and we're running out of resources. Though i suppose the 'nids might have use for us.

So it would go something like this...

tigonesskay wrote:I was wondering if the races of 40k were to invade earth today how would our military hold up?

tigonesskay wrote:US army vs orks- As far as missiles tanks and weapons we got the orks beat. In hand to hand combat we're pretty much screwed. A bayonet attached to an M-16 might not do
much to a who mob of Orks. The Seals and the speical forces might be used for scouting missions killing Leader orks to bring their morale down.

I think an Ork invasion would not last long against the modern armed forces of the earth. Yeah, they’re tough, but our air superiority would be brutal. In the real world, surgical snipers can take out Nobs and War Bosses from about a mile away and don’t have to deal with silly wound allocation issues – while the orks were brawling amongst one another to determine who the next big boss would be, we’d carpet bomb them into vapor and send in armored humvees and tanks to clean up the rest. The spores would no doubt be a long0standing issue to deal with until we develop an herbicide to finish them off.

tigonesskay wrote:....Vs. Tau-It could go 50-50. A fight with them might end in a draw forcing the tau to come to a peace agreement with earth.

The range of even a railgun to scale is pathetic in comparison to the range of the weapons on even a 50-year-old naval vessel. Face to face with a modern super-carrier battle-group, Tau don’t stand a chance. As with orks, surgical snipers would make short work of the Etherials and the command structure would crumble.

tigonesskay wrote:....Vs 'Nids we will be deep in... We will end up using nuclear weapons and even if we somehow win we will have all of the fallout to worry about...

Nids would be a serious issue I think. Infiltration of “hive” New York or any “hive” in China or India by genestealers would be challenging to deal with. I still think we would win though – depending on the size of the hive fleet, because the movement rules in 40k make no sense. An APC can move WAY WAY WAY faster than a Rhino or Chimera that, as per the rules, can only move about as fast as someone can sprint. The various MC’s would just have a hard time cracking our transports. Tyranid air combat would be deadly, but all modern aviation can outmaneuver nearly any biological organism in existence.

tigonesskay wrote:.....Vs. Dark eldar. They might not be strong enough for a full scale invasion but with so many wars going on they sneak in during the chaos and snatch up some people up to use as slaves.

Dark Eldar – eh, their raids would be fast but not significant enough to cause severe issue. If they were smart they’d raid a 3rd world country ill-equipped to deal with the threat. If they’re stupid they’ll go after a modern civilization which will suffer a raid or two before developing a contingency plan for their next raid and wiping them off the face of the earth.

tigonesskay wrote:.....Vs. Necrons It'll be a long hard fight but if all of the armies of the world come together we might beat them if they are a small force. If the force necrons are legion sized....

Necrons might be trouble… there’s no precedent for how EMP’s function against Necrons but, if they’re effective the conflict will last about 30 seconds.

Wait wait wait.

Orks are much, much tougher than humans. If a damn bolter cannot kill an Ork with 1 shot, then how do our weapons suddenly do more? Also, since when did they not have any sort of air support? Roks falling from the sky, hordes of Fightas and Fighta-Bommas filling the air with choking black fumes? Yeah, I don't think so.

Railgun range pathetic? If humanity's FINEST 41st Millenium Anti-Tank weapon can outrange a 50 year old naval vessel, a Railgun will certainly outrange us, with enough punch to break open a damn Land Raider, the toughest vehicle known to man (Not including Apocalypse sized monstrosities)

Dark Eldar we would have serious problems with. If we can't even deal with our OWN raiders (I.E. Terrorists) then we stand NO chance against raiders who have perfected their craft for thousands of years.

Call it fanboyism, but we are screwed against ANY 40k race. Why? It's the 41st Milennium for pete's sake, and Humanity with all its advances is STILL struggling with these other races.

DE wouldn't be stupid enough to attack the same target twice, and if they did the job right they would strike in the dark and humanity would never be able to fully comprehend exactly what they are facing.

From a tabletop point of view, I'd say a Railguns range sucked. But that's for a game that needs balance. According to fluff the ranged weaponry of Tau is ridicullously OTT. Cruisers and even Carriers could be annihilate in a single (or a couple of) firect hits. And then they have Manta Rays and other pieces of Orbital Support.

Anyway, my point is that all these races have mastery in an area that we humans have yet to expand into. Space Combat. Us fighting them would be akin to two countries fighting eachother, but one having complete air superiority the whole time. There's no way we can retaliate against that kind of threat.

And Ork invasion would be interesting to say the least, becuase if the land via Roks they will little in the way of air support. Which puts us on a much more even footing. However, spores would be a v ery real threat, as even the Imperium has not been able to come up with an effective enough herbicide to null the threat.

Dark eldar also wouldn't be trying to destroy us or eliminate us. Indeed that would be counter productive for them. If they hit smaller settlements, such as country towns and more outlying areas, there would be very little that could be done. Major cities could be protected, rural areas couldn't. And they'd go for places with less than 300 people or so, swoop in and kill some and drag the rest off. Anywhere between 50-300ish people would be a good target size. Larger, and you risk sufficient numbers to start taking significant casualties (I don't care how advanced they are, a shotgun to an exposed face is going to do some damage) and may delay you long enough to get a distress call out. If it does and any form of air support can be brought in, the DE better hope they have ravens in the air because their raiders would be toast. A series of short, sharp raids taking ~100 prisoners at a time would be manageable and not impact the global population unduly.

The response would be similar to that of the world Vulcan (is that right? Primach of the Salamanders) fell on; everyone would have a bolthole or hiding place and would race for it at the first sign of an attack. Armed forces would try and do what they can.

Cryonicleech wrote:Wait wait wait.

The 21st century is, in large part, more technologically advanced than the 41’s millennium. You have to remember that the Warhammer 40k is set in an era that mirrors our own Dark Ages. There is powerful technology out there, but it’s rare and only the select few have access to it. Ever hear of average Joe-Some Imperial citizen busting out a cellular phone and chatting with someone else half way across the planet? Heck, ever even hear of an inquisitor Googling info on the latest and greatest demon threatening the Emperium?

Cryonicleech wrote:Orks are much, much tougher than humans. If a damn bolter cannot kill an Ork with 1 shot, then how do our weapons suddenly do more? Also, since when did they not have any sort of air support? Roks falling from the sky, hordes of Fightas and Fighta-Bommas filling the air with choking black fumes? Yeah, I don't think so.

I think you have a personal bias that’s clouding the context of this discussion. I never said our weapons do more damage than a bolter. The game mechanics of 40k and the laws of the real world do not correspond in this instance. In 40k there are images of a green tide of millions of Orks crashing against a desperate wall of Imperial Guard. That’s not how modern warfare is fought – war hasn’t been fought like that for quite a long time. Modern warfare is largely precise and once humanity figured out the ork command structure it wouldn’t take long to dismantle it.

As for the ridiculous ork air support… You REALLY think that Roks falling from the sky and the World War 2 era Fightas and Fighta bommas count as air support? It would very literally be like fighting against a poorly trained and uncoordinated Luftwafa with modern fighter planes and bombers. Those “clouds of choking black fumes” - ever hear of CLOUDS? I think our fighter pilots are trained to deal with combat in poor visibility… In tabletop terms it’d be like placing a squad of ork flyers on your gaming table and a squad of F-16’s about a half mile away and then launching precision-guided missiles from those F-16’s that only miss on 1’s – but if you miss you get to re-roll and you again only miss on 1’s. Missiles are strength 100 and each roll 10 dice for the damage they do. Forget about dogfights – even if our pilots FELT like dogfighting they’d be in and out of the Ork midst before the Orks even knew they were being attacked. Do you have any idea how fast our fighter jets are in comparison to ork fliers? Once the orks air defences were thoroughly and completely eradicated it’d be a causal matter to vaporize them from the air.

Sorry, orks don’t stand a chance in hell.

Cryonicleech wrote:Railgun range pathetic? If humanity's FINEST 41st Millenium Anti-Tank weapon can outrange a 50 year old naval vessel, a Railgun will certainly outrange us, with enough punch to break open a damn Land Raider, the toughest vehicle known to man (Not including Apocalypse sized monstrosities) .

To scale 72” is a little over half a football field. But for the sake of argument lets say the game mechanics of 40k don’t apply in this instance either and Tau have REAL railguns and the energy and technology to use them regularly in combat. That’s still irrelevant because, as I said, surgical snipers would dismantle the Tau command structure. It’s difficult to compare but I’d say an Abrams Tank is far better armored (and armed) than a Landraider. And again, we can get into discussions about air superiority but air combat in 40k mirrors World War 2 with some science fiction elements – modern air combat is unto that as an M-16 is to a primitive bow and arrow.

Cryonicleech wrote:Dark Eldar we would have serious problems with. If we can't even deal with our OWN raiders (I.E. Terrorists) then we stand NO chance against raiders who have perfected their craft for thousands of years.

We’ve dealt with our own raiders quite nicely. There are terrorist cells out there but they’re clinging to ideology. Dark Eldar have no such ideology – had we given the Dark Eldar the whooping we gave Alquida they’d never return. Somoli pirates end up with bullets in their brains. The Dark Eldar would regard conflict with a modern industrialized nation far too costly to maintain and focus on raiding 3rd world countries or leaving us alone all together.

Cryonicleech wrote:Call it fanboyism, but we are screwed against ANY 40k race. Why? It's the 41st Milennium for pete's sake, and Humanity with all its advances is STILL struggling with these other races.

Like I said, the 41’s millennium is a mirror to our own Dark Age. With the exception of mideical technology and space travel, we are to 40k as the Romans were to the Dark Ages.

Remember Custard's last stand? His army had superior technology but he still got beat by the indians...

I thought it was funny someone said that we don't send wave after wave of men at the enemy like the Imperial Guard do, but then he says we would win since we would wear them down because they would run out of bullets, implying that we would just throw people at them to exhaust their ammo.

The irony.

Aswell, how are all of you saying that an Abrams is better armoured than a LAND RAIDER.

It has ceramite, adamantium, plas-steel. We don't even know WHAT THAT IS. They are, what 38 thousand years ahead of us, yes? Or is it 380 thousand years ahead of us? I remember reading on Lexicanum that the Emperor arose in our 1600's, time wise.

I have no doubt in my mind that a Krak Missile would destroy an abrams with little effort, we haven't even discovered laser technology, while they had had it for a long while, this is assuming we ever DO discover some sort of las-tech.

40k wins, anything short of a tank-shell isn't going to scratch a Space Marine, and that probably will only send it flying, hurt it, yeah, but not kill it.

These threads are always fail, I doubt an m-16 could go through IG Flak Armour (note, its not like our flak armour)