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FearPeteySodes:

Uh, Chaos Dreadnoughts don't have the option of Havoc Launchers in the latest codex...

I call them Giganto-Smoke Launchers...if you have them modelled on .
The closest thing would be a missile Launcher if one wanted options for a replacement in the 5th ed dex.

Nurglitch wrote:FearPeteySodes:

Uh, Chaos Dreadnoughts don't have the option of Havoc Launchers in the latest codex...

Damn, i guess i just regressed a bit a few books then eh? No harm done though and i would like to think i would have discovered that before defacing my dreads but thanks all the same haha.

Hmmm, so as an aside, how many people here actually use the alternative rules interpretation that I've seen being bounced around wherein the Chaos Dread, upon entering Fire Frenzy, unloads all of its weaponry on the nearest target with its forty five degree fire arc? If this rules interpretation is viable and acceptable, I think Dreads might actually be rather good.

Nope, I have no experience with that way of playing cause I play with a pair.

Nope, I have no experience with that way of playing cause I play with a pair.

Ha, I know what you mean. Even though I bashed quite heavily on the Hurr Durr aspects of the Chaos Dread special rule, I do appreciate the randomness and true chaos feel it lends to the game. It's why I like Possessed, as well. The Dread can be extremely frustrating at times, is all.

Seems like with that 45 degree interpretation, Chaos Dreads might even be overpowered.

IMO, both possessed and dreads are functional units.
It's that other options are priced better or are more efficient with what you pay for.

If the crazy dreads are doing well enough, a 'buffed' dread by interpretation could only be better...but he still will have to be ahead of the army, meaning clearer shots and closer shots from the enemy (less cover/in melta range respectively).

Yes, very true. I can foresee some people taking terrible advantage of that interpretation as well. If the Chaos Dread only fires at things in its 45 degree fire arc, then you could just move your dread forward, then turn him sideways enough that he could only target an enemy. Assuming you're running him up a side, that is. If he's smack dab in the middle of the army you're pretty well fethed when it comes to that.

I rather like that the liberal interpretation lends itself to tactics.

Outside of a monster-mash list (2x Princes, Greater Daemon, 3x Dreads, 3xDefilers) I don't see much use for them.

They are a poor choice in the chaos book, but even a poor choice can overload targets through redundancy.

I find most people don't have a problem playing the Chaos dread by the 45 degree angle because it is simply the 5th ed rules. That it makes a unit less bad doesn't seem to bother people.

By no means does it make it "overpowered" though. Just not damn near useless and an actual viable choice for an Elite slot.

I'm pretty sure dreads can't purchase havoc launchers any more.

For those of you who play in areas that like the INAT FAQ look up the FAQ for fire frenzy again, it has changed to be more inline with what the rules say (fires twice at a target within front 45).

So the INAT FAQ got something right for once. Cool.

I think the traditional interpretation, that the Dreadnought attacks the closest unit, is a holdover from 4th edition when Dreadnoughts had a 360 degree line of sight. People got used to playing it that way, and inertia being what it is, generally never got around to reading the new Walker rules.

Recently I have been running them with a missle launcher DCCW. If you march them up the field and get close to the enemy, its a win win scenario. Either, you will fire frenzy and fire twice at the ENEMY, or go crazy and run and assault the enemy. If you can do this and keep them away from your army, they aren't half bad.

I run a single Chaos Dread, with DCCW and either a Plasma Cannon or Twinlinked Reaper ACs. I've been playing with the "360 degree arc for fire frenzy interpretation" (though I'll have to go re-read the 5th ed section on Walkers now). I just either stick him out on his own on a flank, or walk him next to the Land Raider that he can't hurt.

He's not the best thing in my list, but he's not the worst either (that award goes to Typhus, who lost his last wound to his own Manreaper in a tournament game).

The turn the Dread comes in from reserves he doesn't frenzy, so you get at least one certain round of good firing with a 42" threat range (6" move + 36" plas/reaper)... I once took out a whole unit of bunched-up Sternguard with a walk-on from my PC dread, in another tourney.

@Strangelooper:
They are Twin Linked Autocannons.
Reapers are different... and are inherently twin linked.

The dread has only access Twin Linked Autocannons, not reapers.
Twin Linked Autocannons are Superior to reapers anyway.

I use one with dual DCCW's and twin-linked bolters (converted from one of the original Rogue Trader-era Dreaddies) in my Death Guard force...while I tend to the front 45 degree arc intepretation, I'll use the more liberal targeting wording if my opponent sees fit. Thankfully, those T5, 3+ save Feel No Pain Plaguemarines just laugh at the sight of the Chaos Dred blazing away at them with only two puny twin-linked bolters!

*pew-pew-pew-pew-pew!!!*'

I picked up a set to try out in my Chaos list. Planning on using DCCW w/ a Heavy Flamer. A pair should be positively beastly hunting down SM infantry, but we'll see. I'm learning that painting these things is a bit of a pain, but with any luck I'll have two done in prep for my next game in 2 weeks.

If you consider the 5th edition reading of the Crazed! rule, you may notice that it may seem like a positive boon, so long as your Dreadnought leads from the front.

It is a positive boon, if you have a traditional configuration rather than a gun-boat or close-combat configuration. Otherwise the gun-boat is wasted when the Dreadnought has to charge, and the close-combat monster is wasted plinking stuff with its bolters/flamer. It makes those strategies more risky, though it multiplies the returns because that extra close combat weapon can get to combat earlier and that extra ranged weapon can kick out twice the firepower.

Sanctjud wrote:@Strangelooper:
They are Twin Linked Autocannons.
Reapers are different... and are inherently twin linked.

The dread has only access Twin Linked Autocannons, not reapers.
Twin Linked Autocannons are Superior to reapers anyway.

Oh right, whoops! Thanks for the correction. Yes Twinlinked ACs are better, make that a 52" threat range on the walk-on!

I guess I've been fielding the PC most of the time recently.

I always interpreted Chaos Dreads as a sub-optimal choice, so I never bothered with them at first (sprung for a Defiler instead). Eventually, I got a Black Reach Dreadnaught and converted it to Chaos just for fun, and every time I fielded it, it would roll nothing but 1s and 6s. Maybe it's because I started with a Loyalist model.

Anyway, this thread is convincing me to give Dreads another try. Only problem is that they'll be competing for slots with the Possessed that you guys also convinced me were good after all.

Dreads, Possessed, Lesser Daemons, Greater Daemons, Bikers, Spawn, are generally the 'flavor' units. They will not be everyone's cup of tea.

Specifically the dread, it's really not that bad.
I feel many that don't like have just too high of an expectation for it.
The crazy rule can be as much of a benefit as they view it as a negative.

Briefly: in my Crap Legion days, the dread was pretty low on priority and was left to do its own thing. Blood rage was always welcomed...the Dread will most likely approach the enemy anyway and the 'safe' configs meant it wasn't too much to lose one round of shooting to get closer, which is were the dread (IMO) shines.

Fire Frenzy (whatever way you play it) has been 'fun'. I've had situations were they've shot my spawn in cover (not so bad) and then experiences where it takes down Vect and his pimp mobile or land raiders.

It's risk management and positioning and exploitation of current table conditions that make the 'flavor' units good, not just a statline and some special rules.

How do you feel about my beautifully modelled and painted Raptors, Sanctjud? They're not even everyone's cup of marmite.

I think they get alot more lovin', but I feel they function too similarly to CSM squads in a rhino... and with the scoring and mech combo, it's hard to beat.

Sure they get into combat a turn early, but if you can work around that, the CSM troops are superior.

I guess it's how comfortable you ware with wielding a mech unit. If one is not so great with them, they will branch out to units like raptors who have inherent speed.

What do I think of them?: Spiky Smurf Assault Marines.
I do have a unit of 10, but I don't use them on a consistent basis.

Mechanization isn't about mobility, it's about protection, and how important tank shocking is to winning objective games.

Anti-infantry ability is currently so devastating for most modern codices that non-mechanized infantry just doesn't survive long.

Its not just that Raptors can get into combat a turn early, but that they can bypass terrain and screening units to do so. Comfort in using a mechanized unit has little to do with it.

And with two Melta Guns the one thing they aren't is "Spiky Smurf Assault Marines" because Loyalists can't take Melta Guns. They also lack Combat Tactics, Combat Squads, and And They Shall Know No Fear, which changes what you can do with them, but its the Melta Guns that affect whether you can use them with a Loyalist list...

ARRG, I need to remember to put in a disclaimer when I say that.
I had meant "looks" again.
Seriously, anytime I say Spiky Smurfs it's there as a joke...don't have to take it so seriously.

Yes they are different, but IMO a CSM squad kitted the same in a rhino is a superior choice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As much as I suggest diversification, when it comes down to it, the CSM are such a good unit that overlaps in roles to many other unit options in the dex IMO.

I do appreciate the Raptors' Deep Strike capabilities, especially when kitted out with the pair of meltaguns mentioned already. I like to use a small number of them to kill off tanks by DSing behind rear armor, but I know most people like to kill armored targets as early on in the game as possible, and reserves are not perfectly reliable.

Still, I love it when I can appear behind a Chimera or something dangerously close to my own lines, pop it with meltas, and then counter-charge the exposed units inside with my own defenders.

Just to pipe in late


I used to run a dread with my chaos force (till I got fed up trying to enjoy the new book). I agree with those that said to arm it with a plasmacannon. It's got a good base attacks already, and the plasmacannon is a real threat to all heavy infantry. I always had a landraider in my list and I found it worked well to have the dread hang right behind the raider. It would provide cover until they both got closer, meaning my dread usually made it to the enemy lines. On a bad result it would just shoot the raider. If I wanted to shoot more with the dread without risking too much, I would keep the raider near after it disgorged its cargo. Otherwise I'd send the dread off to support something in melee somewhere.

Although, I must say... you really should've held out for a forgeworld model




(god I miss the dread of the old book )

The way we play it in a our group is that dreads use the same rules for vehicles LOS as the rule book.

that means no pivot (after all he can't move and there is no free pivot in shooting anymore) so instead he just shoots the nearest unit in his front 45 degree arc.

If you run mech or you use your dreads agressively this means that almost always he will be fir frenzying an enemy unit and not your own guys. Especially since you have an entire movement phase to get the hell away from the crazy dread. However even with this unpopular (but IMHO accurate) inerpretation of the fire frenzy rules everythigbn can still go tits up.

Why, in a game today my friends dread killed his other dread in a frenzied mood. Believe it or not they both frnezied at the same time so he couldn't move the front dread out of the way.

In a mech army leading from the very front they aren't likely to kill any chaos troops and with a plasma cannon and DCCw they provide not only target saturation but a bunch of useful tactical applications.

I wouldn't run them as gun platforms though, they are less crazy in cc and more likely to kill your own guys if they hang around at the back of the table. give them at least 1 cc and use the other arm to shore up a weakness in your list (usually plasma as tank killing comes from melta and troop killing from oblits/assault units)