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Okay, so I picked up a Chaos Dreadnought recently.

Not my best decision.

Not only does the standard GW model look awful (At least to me, anyway. Wish I had put down a bit more for a Forgeworld model.), but it quite often decides that the Noise Marine squad next to it is in dire need of being shot with a blast of murderous plasma cannon energy... Twice.

So, I now realize the error in judgment I made in picking up that BRICK of a model (You could do some light toning exercises if you had two of them).

My question is this: What, if any, ways have you fellows used them effectively? I realize that they can be a stable firing platform if you can avoid their 2/6 chance to either unleash a cataclysm of fire upon your own troops or DURR HURR I ARE RUNNIN' AT ENEMY CUZ I MAD.... But that 2/6 is just too chancy.

They are fun when there is nothing at stake. There isn't really a safe build, though. Dual combat weapons and you midigate a roll of 1, but your Dread is effectively dead on an Immobilized. Missile Launchers make them the least dangerous for what they can achieve. They are some really cheap target saturation, but only if you already have other hard armored/MC targets will the Dread be worth it.

You can also monkey around with the wording of his Fire Frenzy. I like to follow the logic that the Fire Frenzy rule over-rides the firing sequence of Walkers because it is more specific. As per the wording, you select your target before you pivot, forcing you to pick targets in front of you. However, the rules on LoS are ambiguous and the arguement can be made that it sees like an infantry, all around. I love GW.

Ooooh, hadn't thought about the targeting wording.... I think I'll refrain from attempting to utilize that one, though. I'd feel slightly dirty, I think...

But regardless, the Dread really is an incredibly cheap source of good, reliable long range firepower... Or it would be without that "I IS T3H ANGREE" special rule... Very depressing.

I think I'll give that close combat loadout a try. I've got enough monstrous creatures floating around that I can work up some pretty decent target saturation.

They still sell those paper weights...

Well, these bricks look ugly.
You better give him two cc weapons and let him run.

People often suggest that you keep him next to your landraider or even a pred. That way anything like a plasma cannnon will just bounce off if you do roll badly.

DarkHound wrote: However, the rules on LoS are ambiguous and the arguement can be made that it sees like an infantry, all around. I love GW.

Not actually the case. In the walker section of the vehicles section, it states that walkers weapons are hull mounted, and therefore have a 45 degree firing arc. In the 'vehicles shooting' section, (paraphrasing, away from books) its says, 'unlike infantry, vehicles see down their barrels, and use that to determine what is in los.'

I find it cut and dry, but the only point of contention is the definition of 'visible' and people's outright refusal to accept that dreads sometimes won't shoot you in the foot.

i reckon there bull for what there worth in points and money

I have 6 (5 converted from regular SM dreads, as the CSM dreads look terrible) and tend to run them with all CCW's and just romp them through enemy infantry (as they don't have a ranged weapon, they have a 5/6 chance of doing what you want them to do).

6 angry choppy dreads running over the table in apoc is very fun.

Otherwise, I take something like a plasma cannon and stick the dread out on its own somewhere, or with cover blocking LoS to most of my models.

Personally, I think long range dreads are somewhat of a waste for chaos.

@SilverMK2:
Even CCW dreads have ranged weapon: the tl-bolters. So you have no choice but to shoot those even with a CCW Chaos Dread build.
______________

Dreads basically offer the CSM list another option in armor saturation.
They are a support unit to CSM troop options and are not always dependable, but their craziness can be used as an advantedge, it just takes planning and a little luck, much like anything else in 40K.

The 'safe' builds as I see it are:
-ML and DCCW.
-DCCW and DCCW.
While keeping as cheap as possible.

the way I like to run my dread is the heavy bolter and DCCW place in front of one of my vindicators to be safe in case of rolling a one.And of course a HB fire frenzy beside low toughness models is very fun.

The chaos dreadnaught has some authority issues.... and i have rarely rarely played against them, mostly a chaos lord just takes a defiler or whatever they are called.
but you know..... it is chaos, and you are complaining about controlling it lol!

Well, if you read the rules from the 3.5 Crazy Dread, it needed no changing.

But GW had to fudge it up and mess with something they didn't need to.

The CSM codex does not represent very well... but so ar other dexes that have been dumbed down and reduced to essentially one army list from multiple ones. (ie Legions, Craftworlds, Chapters, Ork Clans, etc)

the metal chaos dread is a pretty crappy model.

I field my dread with 2 dccw and 1 heavy flamer sometimes extra armour mainly because it is the cool forgeworld dread and he has out preformed himself several eventss in a row

the better dread is at 150 points has demonic possession and fleet and no crazy rule and a battlecannon and it is called a defiler.

I agree with skkipper about the defiler thing...but there are issues to that.
Mainly, the competition for Hvy support slots.

In addition, the Defiler is a big ass model... not as jerky as the Valk, but still annoying for an AV12 platform.

Dreads are a bit more sneaky...

yeah dread takes up a lot less space and is easier to hide.

the good news if you can make them work now in 2011 when the next chaos dex comes out dreads will probaly get a bump. maybe

Dual CCW is the only way I've found to run a chaos dread and have any chance of doing anything.... otherwise, its just a tin can target that takes a lot of fire

Seriously, sell that pile of pewter crap on e-Bay, accept your losses and buy a defiler.

Real Chaos dreadnaughts come with 4 dreadnaught close-combat weapons and a battlecannon.

DarkHound wrote:You can also monkey around with the wording of his Fire Frenzy. I like to follow the logic that the Fire Frenzy rule over-rides the firing sequence of Walkers because it is more specific. As per the wording, you select your target before you pivot, forcing you to pick targets in front of you. However, the rules on LoS are ambiguous and the arguement can be made that it sees like an infantry, all around. I love GW.

Quoted for relevance and play your Dreadnoughts properly!

Although seriously, why would you buy the pewter model when Forgeworld is only slightly more expensive and so much better looking.

...Chaos Dreads require more planning and thought to use.

I've used them sucessfully in the past and are not as much doom and gloom as most will say, much like the crying about possessed, lesser daemons, and spawn.

Defilers vs. Dreads...woop-di-do. If the defiler can jump into the elite slot please bring this up again then.
As it is now, taking Defilers means less vindis or oblits taken.

Don't get me wrong, I hate what GW has done to the Crazy table, but the Chaos Dread is still a functional unit. The model for it is an acquired taste, but it prob. won't look as good as something converted from a Loyalist Dread plastic set.

Sanctjud wrote:...Chaos Dreads require more planning and thought to use.

its CHAOS!! how to plan something that cannot be planned!?!? lol

I just wish you could switch BOTH bolters with heavy flamers. If there's no targets in range, the dreadnought is sane instead - but there's that DAMN bolter that reaches out 24" and screws everything up.

I converted a wraithlord into a dread with 2x ccw and I love it a lot more than my plasma cannon dread. For the record though, keeping them next to a heavy vehicle IS the best option.

Spellbound wrote:I just wish you could switch BOTH bolters with heavy flamers. If there's no targets in range, the dreadnought is sane instead - but there's that DAMN bolter that reaches out 24" and screws everything up.

The local Iron Warriors player has the same complaint. I'm hoping that, in the next Codex, Chaos Dreadnoughts will get some options akin to those of the Ironclad Dreadnought, with more of a focus on short-ranged weapons.

@hcordes:
You don't plan on when they go crazy.
You plan how to minimize the crazies during deployment and oppurtunities that arise during the game.

I know that the crazy table is annoying to some, but nothing terrible has happened when I've used them...even if they go crazy.

Nothing has died by my fire frenzy as Frag missiles are nothing rhinos and plague marines are concerned about.
The most I lose is not shooting them at the enemy, but they are still contributing to Armor Saturation, no one wants to give free reign to a dreadnought.

The Chaos Dread is an unparralled support option for ground pounding lists, where heavy support is focused with other things. It may not be ideal, but it does what it does well enough, and at a low cost compared to other options.

Chaos dreads are 5 points cheaper than a loyalist version, and the chaos dread has a base of 3 attacks -- a 50% increase over the loyalist version.
That means that a base chaos dread has as many attacks as the BA Furioso dreadnought.

While the crazed can be a PITA, your paying for the chaos ability of CC.

@Sanctjud just the idea of the words "plan" and "chaos" in the same sentence strikes me as funny. lol

A year ago I would have said they suck, dont bother. Now? After actually using them extensively, theyre in my official 1850 list. I mean the competitive one.

x2 dreadnoughts each with a plasma cannon = 210 points.

Put them down next to one another, and the odds of them blowing each other up? 0.8%. And guess what, that's not even including scattering (and if it scatters at all, it wont damage it)!

However, the point is still to get into Close combat. The goal is to move and run up the field unless there is a good target. I think the 5 point premium over the CC dread is worth it for the plasma cannon. Sure, you get 1 less attack, but they are a threat no matter where they are, and a 33%/25% on charge increase really isnt going to do much.

They are no where near as bad as people say they are or how they look on paper. They provide a very very unique role to the army, helping it in the most important ways (plasma cannon for terminators and marines out of cover, S10 in CC, 2x AV12 units running up with rhinos and prince, etc.). The table is a pain but the problems minimized by playing smart.

Two things though - never solely rely on them. Even though 97% of the time one of the two dreads is going to do what its supposed to do (and maybe even better if you get the right roll at the right time), you can never be too sure, so use it as a support unit instead of a hammer.

Also, even though the rules are iffy in terms of line of sight, always assume that the dread can turn around and blow your own guys away. Just because you interpret the rulebook one way doesnt mean that's how it is actually played. Always assume the worst about your units and you can save time arguing (and your guys that just got blown away because you lost the 4+ roll off or by a TO ruling)

If you're inclined to play with liberal friendly fire rules, then the matching pair, or having the Dreadnought escorting a Land Raider, is the way to do it.

Night Lords comment about using the Dreadnoughts as support units is 100% correct: don't expect them to roll units on their own or to destroy other units with their firepower (though it can happen*). Use them to support another unit, even another Dreadnought, and then they'll have an effect.

In particular I suggest using them in the shock-assault role, moving in front of the army, always popping smoke and running on the first turn, and basically trying to close quickly with the enemy so that they'll either hurl themselves into the enemy or double-tap them.

*Two Plasma Cannon blasts and two Heavy Flamer templates is unlikely, but disgustingly powerful.

Hmm... I'm going to make myself look petty, but if we are solely looking at this thread, I'm the one that described them as support units first.......several times even.
And I've been actively defending them as well over several posts...

I'm guessing Night Lords has more in his Pimp Status Bar than I do.

I run two with X2DCCW, to me it's worth it as they generally draw fire from my transports and people seem to be very frightened of them hitting one of their lines. I'm happy if even one gets their points back but it's rare they do. I've been toying with the idea of havoc launchers in the case they get immobilized (which is often).