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Kanluwen wrote:Have you seen the kind of kit most Special Forces run with today?

Have you?

Kanluwen wrote:A stripped down autocannon, with a scope wouldn't at all slow down a group that's running infiltration.

And hey, look at Space Marine Scouts.
Running around with a Missile Launcher, Bolters, and Chainswords hardly qualifies a unit to earn Infiltration and Scouting.

The 48 range is longer than a rail rifle, or any other sniper rifle in the game. A rail rifle shouldn't be outranged by an IG long-las/sniper rifle. That is overpowered in itself. You want to create a new unit for IG? Fine. Keep it within what the game already has presented as sniper ranges.

Bolters/Chainswords for Scouts...no big deal. Missile Launcher is only passable because it's spesh mahrines...

wardancer wrote:I was thinking that IG snipers in units should be able to shot at different targets that their units. What do yo uguys think? Perpahs that coming at a price of more expensive sniper rifles?

Kanluwen wrote:But then, another thing you failed to realize is the original suggestion was for the anti-material rifle to be a purchasable upgrade for a standard Scout-Sniper unit.

...the suggestion was for IG, not Space Marines.
An anti-material rifle as I have presented is fine, the range you have suggested is overpowered. You can't have a super-sneaky sniper, that gets the range benefits of a heavy weapons team.

Pie, or cake. Make it a heavy weapon team, and remove infiltrate...or make the range the standard sniper range, and keep the USR's.

The original suggestion that you were replying to?

The OP is so completely vague and formless that it might as well be deleted.

Kanluwen wrote:The original suggestion that you were replying to?

The OP is so completely vague and formless that it might as well be deleted.

If a BS4 autocannon can infiltrate and scout...why not my Lascannon team?
-Because it's overpowered.

I stand by the stats I've put forth already. You missed out on the conversation, Skinnittar and I were speaking of IG, not Space Marines.

There's apparently something lost in the translation.

I'm going to spell it out, simply for you:

You had an issue with the fact that the suggestion Skinnittar(off of the idea I had put into the thread that IF a Guard Sniper Team existed, they should have an option to upgrade to an anti-material rifle) had was "essentially" a two man crewed weapon.
I responded that his suggestion was basically a stripped down autocannon with a bolt action and a scope.

And now we have this mess.

BUT either way, the point stands:
There's no issue with having dedicated sniper teams that have the Infiltrate/Scout rule in the Guard army list.
If there's a balance issue coming from an upgrade of an anti-material rifle...then we alter the proposal.

Something like:
The Imperial Guard Marksman unit has access to upgrade each sniper from the Kantrael pattern Marksman Longlas to a Gryphonne-pattern Anti-Material Rifle at +XXX points. Due to the immense weight of the AMR, the unit loses the Scouting special rule.

Kanluwen wrote:
Something like:
The Imperial Guard Marksman unit has access to upgrade each sniper from the Kantrael pattern Marksman Longlas to a Gryphonne-pattern Anti-Material Rifle at +XXX points. Due to the immense weight of the AMR, the unit loses the Scouting special rule.

The issue is that the range on the rifle at 48" is too much. If the range is going to be 48", then keep Scout and remove Infiltrate. A light anti-armor weapon isn't something that should be infiltrating, at at 48", that is exactly the role it is filling.

Change that to the standard 36" sniper range, and you've simply got a high-powered sniper rifle, as opposed to a true light anti-vehicle weapon.

Che-Vito wrote:

Skinnattittar wrote:In all honesty, if they are going to be acting as a team, I would say make them 25ppm. Since IG has only one thing in Elites worth taking at the moment, putting these guys there too wouldn't be such a bad idea. So they should be a squad that can divide themselves up into their respective teams. At the beginning of the game they must choose to either be acting independently or attached to another infantry Guard unit from HW or Troops. If they are attached to another unit, they do not count as another Kill Point. They may not attach at any time during the game, but may attach to other units between games.
IG Sniper Team:
BS4 WS3 S3 T3 W2 I3 A2 Ld8 Sv5+
Composition: 1-5 Teams
Unit Type: Infantry
Wargear: Laspistols and Autorifle
Special Rules: Infiltrate, Scout, Stealth, Move Through Cover, Tank Hunters
Autorifle: R48 S7 AP3 Heavy 1
@Witzkatz : Before they did not have very good chances of taking out Predators in one shot, they would have to roll a 6 for armor penetration then another 6 on the VDT. With the +1 for AP1 they could get a Wreaked result. Now, under my proposal, they would still need at least a 5 to make it a glancing hit, and a 6 would penetrate, but they will be rolling as normal on the VDT.
@ Che-Vito : How is R48 overpowered? Most of the Guard heavy weapons are R48.... actually only the Heavy Bolter isn't, all the others are.... If anything, the Sniper Rifle is the longest ranged assault weapon and should be bumped down to 24", while the Melta is the shortest ranged and should be bumped up to 24", if we're going to go by the Laws of Differences. But I would never actually suggest either scenario.

Whoa Mr. USR...chill.
What you are running would be priced at at least 30 points per squad. 5 USR, in addition to what is effectively a Rail Rifle with a longer range? (Which in my mind breaks the fluff). Unless we're talking about a 2-man crewed weapon...and then this isn't as much of a "sniper" as a "crewed large caliber rifle".

Meh, not really a 30ppm thing, in my opinion. Remember, for Guard, getting closer to the enemy is a bad thing. This isn't like how oh so many other armies use those abilities (to get into assault in turn two, or even in turn one!), but is there to help imply they are sneaky snipers with a big gun, and help put them in good early positions! Rather than just some dudes walking around with a modified Autocannon, which would be pointless, because then why not just take an Autocannon? Stealth is there to protect them, so they can live long enough to put some pain on target. Move Through Cover is mostly fluff (like with Catachans), and will not allow the unit to shoot in their shooting phase. Tank Hunters, I could take or leave that, but I'd like to see it used somewhere in Guard (who used to get it as part of several units, way back when).

SF units do have access to Barrett .50s, and they can run around with them (if I remember correctly, one of the older models was something like 5ft long!), but they are usually used outside of the ranges 40k uses. Which is why the game is an abstraction, because in all realism, no-one would get close enough to IG to actually assault them.

Skinnittar, don't take it to a personal level.

Having what is basically an autocannon heavy team that can infiltrate, hide well in cover, move through cover well, knock out light armor effectively, as well as Scout move and outflank, is overpowered. If you want to just have sneaky autocannon teams, then we've lost the point of the thread being about snipers...and instead being about a desire to have better Heavy Weapon teams. 48" with all the USRs you have listed creates exactly that, for a low cost.

Guard may want to keep the enemy at a distance, but sneaking in a squad of these guys as you have presented it, is a easy way to neuter Mech lists for little cost. (think Rhino/Chimera spam.)

PLEASE leave out the personal attacks.

Or, you know, else.

Che-Vito wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
Something like:
The Imperial Guard Marksman unit has access to upgrade each sniper from the Kantrael pattern Marksman Longlas to a Gryphonne-pattern Anti-Material Rifle at +XXX points. Due to the immense weight of the AMR, the unit loses the Scouting special rule.

The issue is that the range on the rifle at 48" is too much. If the range is going to be 48", then keep Scout and remove Infiltrate. A light anti-armor weapon isn't something that should be infiltrating, at at 48", that is exactly the role it is filling.

Change that to the standard 36" sniper range, and you've simply got a high-powered sniper rifle, as opposed to a true light anti-vehicle weapon.

...Do you know what an anti-material rifle is, Che-Vito?

It IS a light anti-vehicle weapon, that can also be used for perimeter defense and the DMR role.

What I will concede out of all of this is that what we're talking about isn't what the OP wanted in his first post. So on that subject I think I'll just have to say "sorry, but that's how 40k wants to work: Fire everything from one unit at the same unit, regardless if it makes sense or not."

Have a Land Raider surrounded by Marines coming at an IG squad with a Lascannon? Well all the Guardsmen are going to fire their lasguns at the Land Raider, just as same as the Lascannon team will. Why? Well according to fluff, they're supplying "covering fire." At what exactly? I don't know, but obviously not at the surrounding Marines because they're not going to be affected at all!

Sniper Rifles in 40k have been amazingly abstracted to the point of simply being another weapon entirely from what they represent. Sniper Rifles are normally issued to high performing marksmen in a given unit, they are ordered to attack targets of opportunity and importance.

Example A: An enemy squad of eight assaulting your position with small arms and two RPGs. The Squad Designated Marksman (SDM) would concentrate on taking out the RPGs while the rest of the squad concentrates on keeping back the assault (in whatever ways they have been trained to).

Example B: A sniper on the prowl or just on the lookout will be ordered to cause disruption in enemy ranks and formations. Usually alone or with an ambushing detachment, the sniper will look for important members of an enemy unit (special weapons carriers, leaders, radio operators, etc...) to lead the ambush with the first shot. When alone, this will mostly just be for demoralization purposes (fear of snipers) or disruption of a patrol (one wounded enemy soldier can hold up the entire platoon/company).

Example A is the situation you should be seeing in 40k, while Example B is something more for Dark Heresy or just for the books. However Example B is the one that Sniper Rifles employ in 40k with their "Pinning" ability, while in Example A, there would be no "Pinning" effect (one bullet out of all those in the air seems just like any other). In Example B, it didn't really matter who you shot, but the more important the better, but any one will do when a sniper is alone for the purposes of disruption.

As for my Autorifle idea. The purpose is to be an Anti-Material Sniper Rifle, not a Sneaky Autocannon. But if I am going to put one in an Elites slot, I'm not going to make it ridiculously expensive (or even closer to the reasonable expense, I should WANT to buy it for some reason) on its own, because I would rather buy more Lascannons to knock vehicles out, nor do I simply want it to be a normal Autocannon or S7 Sniper Rifle. Again, I would rather buy more Lascannons than do that.

Che-Vito, so far you have mostly just said "it's way underpriced/overpowered!" without much quantification. We're talking about a T3 W2 model here with a R48 S7 AP3 weapon (as I envision it). If we make this 40pts, like an Ogryn, who is going to buy it? I'm sure as heck not going to, even if it CAN infiltrate and Scout. At 30pts? Well that's more likely.

If I Infiltrate and Scout, I know I'm going to lose my guys pretty quickly, latest in Turn Three. At BS4, by Turn Three, they have reasonable chance to take out one lightly armored vehicle, or as much as 2 enemy infantry, as long as they are <T6 and have no better than Sv3+. If they are better in either category, we're talking maybe 1 enemy infantry model. It's just simple math and gaming. T3, even with W2, is like a strike-anywhere in a sandstorm, it's going to go up easy and quick. That close to the enemy, considering they will be fighting IG, in Turn One there will be precious little for their line weapons (lasguns, bolters, pulse rifles, Assault weapons, etc..) to shoot at other than these really close "Sniper" teams. So why would I pay more than 35pts for something that very well may do nothing if I use it to the fullest expense of its attributes? Matter is, I'm not. So either I point it to the point that using Infiltrate and Scout makes it stupid, in which case I may as well just bought another Company Command Squad and armed them with a Lascannon. I'd get two more orders and a boat load of other options (like another MoO).>

Kanluwen wrote:

Che-Vito wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
Something like:
The Imperial Guard Marksman unit has access to upgrade each sniper from the Kantrael pattern Marksman Longlas to a Gryphonne-pattern Anti-Material Rifle at +XXX points. Due to the immense weight of the AMR, the unit loses the Scouting special rule.

The issue is that the range on the rifle at 48" is too much. If the range is going to be 48", then keep Scout and remove Infiltrate. A light anti-armor weapon isn't something that should be infiltrating, at at 48", that is exactly the role it is filling.

Change that to the standard 36" sniper range, and you've simply got a high-powered sniper rifle, as opposed to a true light anti-vehicle weapon.

...Do you know what an anti-material rifle is, Che-Vito?

It IS a light anti-vehicle weapon, that can also be used for perimeter defense and the DMR role.

I am aware of what an anti-material rifle is. You are incorrect in that they are not used by the U.S. in the DMR role. The DMR is attached to individual squads, usually, and the standard issue DMR rifle at the moment is a slight variant of the M14 for the Marine Corps, a modified M-16 for the Army.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps_Designated_Marksman_Rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Squad_Designated_Marksman_Rifle

Skinnattittar wrote:What I will concede out of all of this is that what we're talking about isn't what the OP wanted in his first post. So on that subject I think I'll just have to say "sorry, but that's how 40k wants to work: Fire everything from one unit at the same unit, regardless if it makes sense or not."

Which is fine if we've moved on from that.

Skinnattittar wrote:Che-Vito, so far you have mostly just said "it's way underpriced/overpowered!" without much quantification. We're talking about a T3 W2 model here with a R48 S7 AP3 weapon (as I envision it). If we make this 40pts, like an Ogryn, who is going to buy it? I'm sure as heck not going to, even if it CAN infiltrate and Scout. At 30pts? Well that's more likely.

I previously posted a price of 30 points. I also have stated that infiltrating something like this will turn a Mech list into a footslogging list (or at least neuter a good portion of it), for a low price, keep it 30 points.

If you want 5 USRs for one unit, then yes...I'd make it 40 points. No matter the pricing, the enemy will be distracted by the unit...and it will be an effective speedbump to keep your firing line/vehicle line from getting hit so soon. I think we can agree that regardless of your suggestion or mine...the unit isn't designed to last the game out.

If Infiltrate isn't useful to you...then give the unit Scout, Stealth, Move Through Cover. Use the stats we've already posted (and perhaps include Disappear again, to help prevent them from seeming like a total throw-away)...30 points. 48" range.

Che, read better.

"can be used for perimeter defense and a DMR role." does not mean

The Barrett M82A1 and the other high caliber anti-material rifles are the ONLY DMRs in active service!

Kanluwen wrote:Che, read better.

"can be used for perimeter defense and a DMR role." does not mean

The Barrett M82A1 and the other high caliber anti-material rifles are the ONLY DMRs in active service!

Sir, they are NOT used in a DMR role by the Army or Marine Corps. Your statement is incorrect.
I also CAN use my 1933 bolt-action .22 for perimeter defense and in a DMR role, but that would be ineffective and be a matter of semantics.

Che-Vito wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Che, read better.

"can be used for perimeter defense and a DMR role." does not mean

The Barrett M82A1 and the other high caliber anti-material rifles are the ONLY DMRs in active service!

Sir, they are NOT used in a DMR role by the Army or Marine Corps. Your statement is incorrect.
I also CAN use my 1933 bolt-action .22 for perimeter defense and in a DMR role, but that would be ineffective and be a matter of semantics.

Giving examples of ineffectiveness/semantics doesn't change the fact you're wrong wrong wrong wrong.

Actually they are used as squad marksman rifles in US Army Squads, and I have heard of them being used in the US Marine Corps squads, usually attached from another platoon/company.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
30ppm, I can live with as long as they get to keep Stealth as well as Scout and Move Through Cover. Tank Hunters, as I've said before, I can take or leave. Infiltrate, well, we're still on edge about that. I think they should be able to have it, it's not as big a deal as you think (at least for a Guard unit, if we were talking about a Space Marine type unit, then that would be something else entirely). I do like Disappear for this unit, if only because they are a full KP for a disposable unit. Plus it would be fun, though we would have to be prepared for a deluge of angry players about "how unfair" that is.

Kanluwen wrote:

Che-Vito wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Che, read better.

"can be used for perimeter defense and a DMR role." does not mean

The Barrett M82A1 and the other high caliber anti-material rifles are the ONLY DMRs in active service!

Sir, they are NOT used in a DMR role by the Army or Marine Corps. Your statement is incorrect.
I also CAN use my 1933 bolt-action .22 for perimeter defense and in a DMR role, but that would be ineffective and be a matter of semantics.

Giving examples of ineffectiveness/semantics doesn't change the fact you're wrong wrong wrong wrong.

You have ceased to contribute anything towards the discussion, and looking back...you were incorrect in your assertion about the DMR used by the U.S. military.

Skinnattittar wrote:Actually they are used as squad marksman rifles in US Army Squads, and I have heard of them being used in the US Marine Corps squads, usually attached from another platoon/company.

I have not heard of them being attached to individual squads on a regular basis (or read anything that suggested it.) Feel free to post a link about that, it'd be interesting to see.

Skinnattittar wrote:
30ppm, I can live with as long as they get to keep Stealth as well as Scout and Move Through Cover. Tank Hunters, as I've said before, I can take or leave. Infiltrate, well, we're still on edge about that. I think they should be able to have it, it's not as big a deal as you think (at least for a Guard unit, if we were talking about a Space Marine type unit, then that would be something else entirely). I do like Disappear for this unit, if only because they are a full KP for a disposable unit. Plus it would be fun, though we would have to be prepared for a deluge of angry players about "how unfair" that is.

I'd give them Disappear, drop Infiltrate...and possible include the option to have the 2nd member of the team lose their ability to shoot as a +5 upgrade...but allow a reroll to hit. The squad would then be able to Scout move...be effective in cover...and have two chances to roll a 3+ to hit...for 35 points or 30 without the reroll.

Skinnattittar wrote:Actually they are used as squad marksman rifles in US Army Squads, and I have heard of them being used in the US Marine Corps squads, usually attached from another platoon/company.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
30ppm, I can live with as long as they get to keep Stealth as well as Scout and Move Through Cover. Tank Hunters, as I've said before, I can take or leave. Infiltrate, well, we're still on edge about that. I think they should be able to have it, it's not as big a deal as you think (at least for a Guard unit, if we were talking about a Space Marine type unit, then that would be something else entirely). I do like Disappear for this unit, if only because they are a full KP for a disposable unit. Plus it would be fun, though we would have to be prepared for a deluge of angry players about "how unfair" that is.

I agree with the Disappear I mean how hard is it really to kill guardsmen? Even if they are in cover w/ stealth its only 6 models.

I would change it though say perhaps "If they can move voluntarily" (No disappearing when pinned ect.) "and no enemy can see them" (Roll a night fight test for enemy units) might make people QQ less.

Also I would drop the AP1, especially if they have tank hunters. Mainly because I play Tau & my Rail gun is AP1 which fires a magnetically accelerated round which punches a hole through a tank s fast that the pressure liquifies the crew & leaves naught but a red stain on the ground past the exit hole (read that in some fluff, cant remember where) I'd put it at no more than an AP 3 & that's pushing it, I just can't see it having an AP equal to a plasma gun or equal to my mini rail gun (rail rifles). Being guard-issue tech I'd say AP 4 would fit very well.

I mean tau are supposed to have some of the most advanced tech around, right? We're also the most relient on the shooty shooty so Guard having a better sniper rifle than us is kinda silly

Show me once where I said "US".

That's right. I didn't.

Speaking of, you're still wrong on that account.

And considering the majority of AMRs are deployed to Headquarters Security units for perimeter defense, OR to sniper units to be deployed as seen fit...

What's that?
It's the sound of you being *wrong*.

Can we please get back on topic & keep the personal feuds to PMs?

Shas'O Dorian wrote:Can we please get back on topic & keep the personal feuds to PMs?

This is what the Ignore button is for.

Shas'O Dorian wrote:

Skinnattittar wrote:Actually they are used as squad marksman rifles in US Army Squads, and I have heard of them being used in the US Marine Corps squads, usually attached from another platoon/company.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
30ppm, I can live with as long as they get to keep Stealth as well as Scout and Move Through Cover. Tank Hunters, as I've said before, I can take or leave. Infiltrate, well, we're still on edge about that. I think they should be able to have it, it's not as big a deal as you think (at least for a Guard unit, if we were talking about a Space Marine type unit, then that would be something else entirely). I do like Disappear for this unit, if only because they are a full KP for a disposable unit. Plus it would be fun, though we would have to be prepared for a deluge of angry players about "how unfair" that is.

I agree with the Disappear I mean how hard is it really to kill guardsmen? Even if they are in cover w/ stealth its only 6 models.

I would change it though say perhaps "If they can move voluntarily" (No disappearing when pinned ect.) "and no enemy can see them" (Roll a night fight test for enemy units) might make people QQ less.

Also I would drop the AP1, especially if they have tank hunters. Mainly because I play Tau & my Rail gun is AP1 which fires a magnetically accelerated round which punches a hole through a tank s fast that the pressure liquifies the crew & leaves naught but a red stain on the ground past the exit hole (read that in some fluff, cant remember where) I'd put it at no more than an AP 3 & that's pushing it, I just can't see it having an AP equal to a plasma gun or equal to my mini rail gun (rail rifles). Being guard-issue tech I'd say AP 4 would fit very well.

I mean tau are supposed to have some of the most advanced tech around, right? We're also the most relient on the shooty shooty so Guard having a better sniper rifle than us is kinda silly

The idea seemed to be that if infiltrate is removed, it is more of a Heavy Weapons team that can get into position effectively, and lay down heavy and accurate fire support. I believe Skinnittar changed it to AP3 though.

On the note of Disappear: I meant it to state that if the unit could move normally in the movement phase, then it can Disappear. I missed the "pinning" option! I would change the "if they enemy can see them" to "if they are in cover". If this unit is out of cover, you are using it wrong to start with.

ACTUALLY...

Lets get back ON TOPIC and STOP the personal attacks, both here AND via PM.

The PM system is subject to ALL THE SAME RULES as the rest of the site.

SERIOUSLY - KNOCK IT OFF IN HERE!

This is the Autorifle Team I suggested earlier:
(I have added a Lasgun for the other team member)

IG Sniper Team:
BS4 WS3 S3 T3 W2 I3 A2 Ld8 Sv5+
Composition: 1-5 Teams
Unit Type: Infantry
Wargear: Laspistols, Lasgun, and Autorifle
Special Rules: Infiltrate, Scout, Stealth, Move Through Cover, Tank Hunters
Autorifle: R48 S7 AP3 Heavy 1

It is a two man team, like the HW squad (I would actually even model these guys on a single 60mm for once! Though probably with two 25mm insertions...). Tank Hunters can be taken off, though I'm not quite convinced about that yet. I would say each team would be 30ppm. Additional rules (I think I cut these out when I quoted):

The unit is bought as a single Elites 0-1 choice. Each team may be "broken off" and either attached during deployment to another unit or act independently. Attached units DO NOT count as a single KP, and once attached at deployment, may not detach (they are not Independent Characters). Unattached units must remain independent, and DO count as their own KP.

There are no suggestions for "twin linked" weapons, though if they were Ordered to, that's a different subject and one I do not want to dive into. I would like to keep Infiltrate and Scouts, I think those are fine for a Guard unit.

@ Che-Vito : Unfortunately, Barrett .50s in a line squad is something you will just have to take my word for. I didn't read it somewhere, I saw it and lived it, heck, I even humped (carried) one once, though not for myself, and heard about other guys doing the same. What I had heard, however, was that they had been detached from other units, but they were deploying with our guys as SOP for certain missions. Much like anything in the military, things change, and I doubt they went on any sort of mission (who the heck wants to carry that beast around?! It weighs damn near 40lbs! Not to mention the additional ammo and asssociated gear!). Typically, you're right, they're a specialist weapon used for specialist missions. But it's a weapon none-the-less and will be used as demand calls.

EDIT : Quote fix.

IG Sniper Team:
BS4 WS3 S3 T3 W2 I3 A2 Ld8 Sv5+
Composition: 1-5 Teams
Unit Type: Infantry
Wargear: Laspistols, Lasgun, and Autorifle
Special Rules: Scout, Stealth, Move Through Cover, *Disappear*
Autorifle: R48 S7 AP3 Heavy 1

Camo Cloaks +5
Spotter +5 (2nd member of the team loses Lasgun, gives rerolls to Hit)

30 points per team, may break up into individual teams.
Sounds good to me.

Only suggestions I have, leave them with the lasgun, and drop Stealth, or else there is no reason to buy the cloaks! The ability to buy the spotter makes up for the added points to buy cloaks, and Disappear is a pretty good special rule for them. I think we have a compromise... I'd offer you a hand, but you're foul Tau Xenos scum, and I would have to hit my hand with promethium afterward.... as much as I like the smell of burning flesh, I don't want to explain why I need another graph for my hand.

I think the Spotter shouldn't just be limited to "gives rerolls to hits".

Should also interact with the Master of Ordnance/Basilisk/Mortar Team fire(Subtract an inch off the Scatter for every Spotter model that has LOS?).

Maybe give them a stripped down version of "Bring it down!" that applies to character/monstrous creature hunting?

Kanluwen wrote:I think the Spotter shouldn't just be limited to "gives rerolls to hits".

Should also interact with the Master of Ordnance/Basilisk/Mortar Team fire(Subtract an inch off the Scatter for every Spotter model that has LOS?).

Maybe give them a stripped down version of "Bring it down!" that applies to character/monstrous creature hunting?

For 5pts, that's asking a lot! Though I have always believed in Guard spotters, but then we would be REALLY stepping on Tau territory of Markerlights.

If it applies only to Indirect Fire weapons and the Sniper Teams themselves, or requires a Vox to be purchased?

I see no real issue.

I think that would require a new unit, in all honesty. That poor spotter can't do everything at once! A new thread for that, I would suggest!

I still take issue that an imperial Sniper rifle (Auto rifle) being propelled by Combustion (IIRC "Auto" weaponry use what we consider standard "bullets") Has 12" more range & is 1 Str higher than a mini projectile propelled by Magnetic Acceleration. (Watch the Youtube video on the US Navy's new rail gun)

Shas'O Dorian wrote:I still take issue that an imperial Sniper rifle (Auto rifle) being propelled by Combustion (IIRC "Auto" weaponry use what we consider standard "bullets") Has 12" more range & is 1 Str higher than a mini projectile propelled by Magnetic Acceleration. (Watch the Youtube video on the US Navy's new rail gun)

Well the Imperials have, since the 1987. Maybe the Tau are not properly applying coulombs force? Or maybe its just as simple as they aren't purposing their weapon to the same role. I'm not saying they CAN'T do it, just that they AREN'T doing it. An amp can go up to level 10, but that doesn't mean you HAVE to go that high.