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Considering that Junior ROTC programs are pretty common in American High Schools, I have no problem with recruiters coming on campus, just make sure they do not insult the kids. (My experience of this was when a Navy recruiter told my Navy Junior ROTC class that none of us looked smart enough to become Navy officers and would only talk about the enlisted programs. Our CO (a marine) was fuming at that remark. After that we never had a Navy recruiter come class again for about a year.

I have no problem with it.

They're just there to talk about military service with potential volunteers. Nothing wrong with that.

If enlisted military recruiters that visit high schools are lying, manipulative, and pushy, it's PARTLY because they are under enormous (and often unjustified) pressure from above to perform, even when the quota of recruits is low.

I work in a Marine Officer Selection Office, basically recruiting college students to become Marine Corps officers. We are in constant contact with the enlisted recruiters, as we funnel leads to each other. The enlisted advisor to the Captain I work for is also a trained and experienced recruiter.

If an NCO is doing recruiting duty and misses his quota he could receive an "Adverse" Fitness Report, which can essentially destroy your chances for promotion. Our office had another enlisted advisor who left the Marine Corps for the Army for just that reason. Ridiculous to be losing one of the top 25 marksmen in the entire Corps because of his lack of charisma and inter-personal skills.

kinda went off on a tangent there...

Finally, there are so many misconceptions out there about the military in general it's not even funny. I see recruiters at high schools and colleges as serving an essential public function, striving to maintain some semblance of an informed citizenry and stemming the tide of ignorance that is prevalent amongst people who could very well be future decision-makers, responsible for sending us into harms way.

I will say that military recruiters have forced me reconsider my opinion of soldiers, which is certainly a good thing given that I will very likely be one of the decisions makers that you mention.

The military is an honourable profession and should be able to make itself known to students. But joining the military is a really big decision, and a lot more of a commitment than going to electrician's school, so there should be very tight regulations on military recruiters. They should be able to give presentations to groups of students, and students (and their parents) should be able to arrange meetings with them, but they shouldn't be able to engage individual students directly. And any claims of recruiters giving false or misleading information should be dealt with very harshly.

Kanluwen wrote:The problem is that most students who think that joining the military is "OMGWIN!" are the numbnuts who think that being given a gun is wicked sweet so they can go kill some Hadjis!

To be fair, being given a gun to go kill some people is wicked sweet.

sebster wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:The problem is that most students who think that joining the military is "OMGWIN!" are the numbnuts who think that being given a gun is wicked sweet so they can go kill some Hadjis!

To be fair, being given a gun to go kill some people is wicked sweet.

It is, until you find out the others have exactly the same opinion. Then it starts not to be that funny anymore

I don't have an issue with recruiters going to high schools at all. What I do have a problem with is the overwhelming perception that war is a game. I'd like to see more of an effort to discourage the misconception that joining the army is like being paid to act out your favorite first person shooter. It is disturbing and only fuels the fire of anti-Americanism worldwide.

dreadlord wrote:I don't have an issue with recruiters going to high schools at all. What I do have a problem with is the overwhelming perception that war is a game. I'd like to see more of an effort to discourage the misconception that joining the army is like being paid to act out your favorite first person shooter. It is disturbing and only fuels the fire of anti-Americanism worldwide.

I don't think anyone over the age of 18 who can do a little bit of thinking thinks that joining the army is like being paid to act out like a FPS. And it's not just the anti-Americanism, it's fueling the hate on every country of the coalition fighting in Afghanistan or Irak, so the feeling it's not only anti-American. I'm Romanian and i never agreed with my country sending troups there just to please its NATO allies. We have no interest and no quarrel there, the only thing it does is spend more of taxpayers' money on NATO buttkissing. Thankfully, we haven't had many casualties (i think there were around 10, maybe less, have to document upon it), or people kidnapped (there were only 2, and they managed to free them), or bombs (none in my country so far).
So, if anyone can explain me where the threat to my country is, i'd bow to the guy

aka_tizz wrote:I don't think anyone over the age of 18 who can do a little bit of thinking...

And what percentage of the population do you attribute this fact to? Perhaps you're less pessimistic than I am.

All I can say is that my opinion is based both out of pictures/videos I have seen come from America's troops over seas and what little contact I've had with them via MMOs and/or internet forums. I don't want to sound like an anti-military hippy fanboi ranting about things they don't fully understand but some of the things I have seen and heard are truly vile.

I don't know how extensive the army's psychological profiling is but some of the troops should never have been accepted in the first place.

dreadlord wrote:I don't have an issue with recruiters going to high schools at all. What I do have a problem with is the overwhelming perception that war is a game. I'd like to see more of an effort to discourage the misconception that joining the army is like being paid to act out your favorite first person shooter. It is disturbing and only fuels the fire of anti-Americanism worldwide.

I have a big drama in my regiment with that mentality. The average age of the guys is 20. They are all parachute trained(any serving/ex services will know the attitude airborne soldiers have). Most have not been to Afghan,so they think its all Call of Duty modern warfare over there. Most of the guys that have been to Afghan have left, as they would rather face the hardship of the recession than go back to Afghan. I myself will be going back at some point. But the young guys think they're invincible. That will change when they get back. It's not fun. And I think its safe to assume that its the same across the pond in the US. Young civilians thinking its all CoD, until they are picking up bits of their friends in the desert when they get sent to some hell-hole.

However, the Army (I'm not sure how it is in the RAF and RN) has given me the opportunities see and do things civvies only dream about. Jumping over Arizona with 82nd Airborne was awesome (6 months with the yanks was brilliant), battlefield tours across france on motorcycles was also brilliant. And not to mention the friends I have made.

And it all started with a Recruiting Sgt from the Household Cavalry who came to my school in 2002.

(Technically Hosehold cavalry don't have Sergeants. Sergeant means 'Servant' in some lost tongue, so Queen Victoria decided that her personal Regiment will have all non-commissioned ranks carry the title Corporal, so the ranks go Trooper,Corporal of horse,Corporal,Staff Corporal,Corporal-Major,Regimental Corporal-Major)

You know, i've always wondered how you guys who've seen it and experienced it firsthand can put up with that. I wanted to go to the Airforce Academy in my country but due to brazen laziness i chose Computers instead. But being in a war zone and see people you know dying, that's gotta be something you never forget.
I guess it's all fun and games until someone loses their head kind of thing, right?

No offense intended

aka_tizz wrote:You know, i've always wondered how you guys who've seen it and experienced it firsthand can put up with that. I wanted to go to the Airforce Academy in my country but due to brazen laziness i chose Computers instead. But being in a war zone and see people you know dying, that's gotta be something you never forget.
I guess it's all fun and games until someone loses their head kind of thing, right?

No offense intended

No offense caused. The armed forces is only a small cog in the great machine that is humanity,yet it plays such a large part in shaping our history.

And you are completly correct. It is all fun and games till someone dies.

aka_tizz wrote:And it's not just the anti-Americanism, it's fueling the hate on every country of the coalition fighting in Afghanistan or Irak, so the feeling it's not only anti-American.

I'd just like to point out that I commonly forget this fact. Living in America and being faced with the delusion of "We're #1!" on an almost daily basis commonly causes me to forget that we're not in a "one country against the world" kind of war. Sometimes it feels that way. I want to jump ship to another country (probably Canada or Britain) but I can't make a decision and I'm not exactly economically stable enough to make such a huge move. I wish Canada would accept American refugees...

dreadlord wrote:

aka_tizz wrote:And it's not just the anti-Americanism, it's fueling the hate on every country of the coalition fighting in Afghanistan or Irak, so the feeling it's not only anti-American.

I'd just like to point out that I commonly forget this fact. Living in America and being faced with the delusion of "We're #1!" on an almost daily basis commonly causes me to forget that we're not in a "one country against the world" kind of war. Sometimes it feels that way. I want to jump ship to another country (probably Canada or Britain) but I can't make a decision and I'm not exactly economically stable enough to make such a huge move. I wish Canada would accept American refugees...

Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out boyo. They can have you.

dreadlord wrote:
I'd just like to point out that I commonly forget this fact. Living in America and being faced with the delusion of "We're #1!" on an almost daily basis commonly causes me to forget that we're not in a "one country against the world" kind of war. Sometimes it feels that way. I want to jump ship to another country (probably Canada or Britain) but I can't make a decision and I'm not exactly economically stable enough to make such a huge move. I wish Canada would accept American refugees...

Well, you can always have North Korea or some African countries...Just don't come to Europe. Most of them will send you back to the U.S. in flaming bits.
Oh, and if you wanna do it legally, don't. I've been there (my mom lives in Portugal and i've lived there for a year and a half). Even though you think your country sucks ass, believe me, living in another country will suck even bigger ass. It's just same problems, different country kind of thing.

I've served with Romanian medics in Iraq (Al Amarah) in 2005. I've also had the honor of working with US 101st Airborne (Now Zad) in Afghan in 2007. Both were very professional in the way they conducted themselves and the love they had for their country.

I know form personal experiance the bad media light that all co-alition troops have had over the past 9 years (prisoner abuse,bombing innocents,shooting incidents etc) I know for a fact that some troops,what ever flag they wear on their arm will always tarnish the many.
It's human nature sadly.

BTW I don't mean to thread-jack or go off tangent. The subject for the thread has so many topics and lines of discussion. So apologies in advance

Well, i do love my country, what i hate about it is the guys up the ladder. They're the ones who make any crap bigger then it is instead of cleaning it out. And i think this is quite general for every nation
And i have nothing against the troops doing their job there, they just do what they're told to, where they're sent to. I even look up to them. I hate the ones who sent them there.

Curly wrote:At college/uni I have no problem with it.
I however don't like the idea of them being at high schools with a large group of younger teenagers who are more likely to be persuaded into something that they might not think through or regret later.

As opposed to all those other well thought out and reasoned decisions that teenagers make. Frankly most of the ones who are so impressionable that walking past the recruiter once every few days "persuades" them to join up are better off in the military for a while.

Ahtman wrote: The test is the ASVAB and everyone takes that whether they have a diploma or not.

Ugh, I hated that test. Not taking it, but because immediately after I did I could not get the recruiters to stop calling me. All four services, all the damn time.

aka_tizz wrote:It is, until you find out the others have exactly the same opinion. Then it starts not to be that funny anymore

Sure, if you're going to be all realisitic about it, then it also sucks to have to kill other people, to have them kill you, and in between those short moments of sheer terror there's really long stretches of boredom.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

dreadlord wrote:I don't have an issue with recruiters going to high schools at all. What I do have a problem with is the overwhelming perception that war is a game. I'd like to see more of an effort to discourage the misconception that joining the army is like being paid to act out your favorite first person shooter. It is disturbing and only fuels the fire of anti-Americanism worldwide.

You mean it isn't all circle strafing and noob toobing? All my training is wasted?

dreadlord wrote:I don't have an issue with recruiters going to high schools at all. What I do have a problem with is the overwhelming perception that war is a game. I'd like to see more of an effort to discourage the misconception that joining the army is like being paid to act out your favorite first person shooter. It is disturbing and only fuels the fire of anti-Americanism worldwide.

...you must know some REALLY, REALLY stupid people.

Tyyr wrote:

dreadlord wrote:I don't have an issue with recruiters going to high schools at all. What I do have a problem with is the overwhelming perception that war is a game. I'd like to see more of an effort to discourage the misconception that joining the army is like being paid to act out your favorite first person shooter. It is disturbing and only fuels the fire of anti-Americanism worldwide.

...you must know some REALLY, REALLY stupid people.

I get the impression that you do not? I've actually talked to people who glorify the act of killing. They joined the army just to kill. They don't care who or why just that they can. Being paid for it is only a fringe benefit. The sad thing is this isn't all that rare.

dreadlord wrote:I get the impression that you do not? I've actually talked to people who glorify the act of killing. They joined the army just to kill. They don't care who or why just that they can. Being paid for it is only a fringe benefit. The sad thing is this isn't all that rare.

See, there's your problem. You're obviously living in a mental hospital as you're surrounding yourself with psychopaths. I've never met anyone in the military or going into the military that had that attitude.

Then again given the statement,

I want to jump ship to another country (probably Canada or Britain) but I can't make a decision and I'm not exactly economically stable enough to make such a huge move. I wish Canada would accept American refugees...

I think your bias is showing.

dreadlord wrote:

Tyyr wrote:

dreadlord wrote:I don't have an issue with recruiters going to high schools at all. What I do have a problem with is the overwhelming perception that war is a game. I'd like to see more of an effort to discourage the misconception that joining the army is like being paid to act out your favorite first person shooter. It is disturbing and only fuels the fire of anti-Americanism worldwide.

...you must know some REALLY, REALLY stupid people.

I get the impression that you do not? I've actually talked to people who glorify the act of killing. They joined the army just to kill. They don't care who or why just that they can. Being paid for it is only a fringe benefit. The sad thing is this isn't all that rare.

From working with US troops, you guys (Yanks) are very 'animated' in the way you guys talk and act. From what I have seen and been involved in the adrenaline amplifies the emotion and fear and exilaration. so it may not be 'glorifying' the act of killing, but the feeling and emotion attached to that situation.

Tyyr wrote:

dreadlord wrote:I get the impression that you do not? I've actually talked to people who glorify the act of killing. They joined the army just to kill. They don't care who or why just that they can. Being paid for it is only a fringe benefit. The sad thing is this isn't all that rare.

See, there's your problem. You're obviously living in a mental hospital as you're surrounding yourself with psychopaths. I've never met anyone in the military or going into the military that had that attitude.

This is impressive. If true, you've given me hope for the future. I don't know about where you live but here it's all about guns, god, and America. Yes that is an exaggeration but one that isn't too far off the mark. As someone that isn't currently feeling too keen on any of those topics I am moody and seeking living arrangements elsewhere. Perhaps I am too harsh on America as a whole but within my small spectrum of experience, I haven't enjoyed it much.

Tyyr wrote:Then again given the statement,

I want to jump ship to another country (probably Canada or Britain) but I can't make a decision and I'm not exactly economically stable enough to make such a huge move. I wish Canada would accept American refugees...

I think your bias is showing.

Yes, I am bias. Everyone is to their own degree.

You're fleeing human nature, not a particularly American predilection. Violence has always been subject to glorification; particularly by those who have little experience with it. Just read the Illiad, the Odyssey, Beowulf, or any similar work.

You also have to realize that soldiers create coping mechanisms to be able to prepare themselves to do what it is soldiers do. It isn't like they are picking up trash on the side of the road or doing someones tax returns. It is the same reason the Spartans were known for their black humor. You can't go around somber and shaking your head about the horror and difficulty of it or you won't make it through it. This isn't even second year psychology.

If anyone has ever the Sven Hassel series, it's also there. A bunch of German WWII soldiers with a really really morbid humour, and it's said many times throughout the series that it was the only thing helping them cope with the horrors they were forced to face

Most of the recruiters and such I've ever met really weren't trying to sell anyone a bill of goods. Yeah, you have the guys wanting to join the Marines because they get a cool sword or Army because they like Call of Duty. But that isn't the recruiters saying that...they talk about careers, ways to pay for college, etc. All "what we can do for you" stuff.

When I was in AFROTC in college, I spent a little time on campus recruiting. It's not like we were brainwashing or giving anyone a hard sell, LOL. Mostly we just made ourselves available to talk about AFROTC, the USAF and options they can give you. I really don't see the issue, except for those who are misguided military haters.

I was 17 when I went to Air Force basic training. I've been in about two years now (still no deployments yet, -ing long training program ) and I still think it was the best thing I've ever done with my life. I 100% approve of letting recruiters on high school campuses. I went to a private school that for whatever reason did not allow recruiters to talk to students on-campus, which in my opinion was stupid as hell. I look at what a lot of my former classmates are doing now, and half of them just party and drink 24/7 and change their major every few months. Because of what they at the time told me was a stupid choice, I now am making and retaining more money than them, and I have skills and life experiences that they will never have. I think its necessary to have recruiters around campus, it shows people they have other options once they graduate. Also, free education FTW, I'm going to have my associates' degree before the year is even half over, and I won't have had to pay a cent for it.

and aka_tizz, I know this is random, but your country makes some fine weapons. I own a Romanian AK47 (semi-auto only of course) and a Romanian PSL marksman's rifle, and both are absolutely outstanding firearms.

I haven't ever actually seen a recruiter trying to recruit (Sign up now!) in a high school. My school didn't have any kinda job/school fair so I had to go to the city to look at universities. The Royal Military College did a little 15min presentation & video bit, handed out pamphelts but even if you were enthuisiastic to sign up then and there, they gave you the recruitment offices card and refered you to them.
My current unit often does booths at events 'cause of our specialty (geomatics) and most of the time it's the College/University that invites us b/c we are a decent player in the Geo world.
I've never met the aggressive arrogant kind of recruiter and b/c it's a process with a couple steps, I've never seen anyone shoved into a uniform and put on a bus before they've had serious time to think about it.
I think it is a great idea to increase the awareness of the army in Canada as not many people even think of the reserves as a possible form of summer employment and part time job during school. And for people who are finishing high school and honestly don't know what they want to do with their life, a short stint in the army is a great way to get money, experience and pad your resume, not to mention signing up for something like electrician, plumber or welder can earn you the civilian liscences too...

Anyway, my 2 cents is, b/c Canada ain't all "Guns, God and America" people don't even think about the Army as an option unless it's waved in front of their nose. More presentations to increase awareness would be good!

@Metallifan: It's been bugging me for a while, is the cap badge in your avatar a triforce badge?