Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I made this topic on another forums awile ago and i wonder what you guys think.
Are they within there rights or just brainwashing students.
I for one love the military recruiters on campuses. I think its great for the people who have no alternative to learn about the military.

...

They're not there to be awesome or teach you about the military or brainwash you or prevent fights.

They're there to present the fact that you CAN join the military, and you CAN find a way to pay for college that way.

I think it's a good idea in the main. College (Uni students here in the UK) students are usually fairly intelligent and not that prone to falling for the hyperbole and propaganda that recruiting officers tend to indulge in. I think a spot of military activity is good for a growing young man (or woman) speaking as one who has done some time in the UK forces. It adds structure, discipline and respect and I think that is good to teach our youngsters that and good for society as a whole really.

garret wrote: I think its great for the people who have no alternative to learn about the military.

Truly on losers and failures have ever joined the military. Like when that NFL player who no one liked was forced out of the NFL into the military. There is no money or future in sports.

filbert wrote:I think it's a good idea in the main. College (Uni students here in the UK) students are usually fairly intelligent and not that prone to falling for the hyperbole and propaganda that recruiting officers tend to indulge in. I think a spot of military activity is good for a growing young man (or woman) speaking as one who has done some time in the UK forces. It adds structure, discipline and respect and I think that is good to teach our youngsters that and good for society as a whole really.

See, but the thing is most recruiting officers don't behave that way. Most of them will tell you the basic services offered to you, alongside of the potential for advancement, etc.
But then, those same officers will also tell you that they will not let you sign on the dotted line until they've made sure to(at least with the high school recruiters, mind)have a lengthy sit down with you and your parents, at your home OR the recruiter's office, and answer any/all questions or concerns.

The problem is that most students who think that joining the military is "OMGWIN!" are the numbnuts who think that being given a gun is wicked sweet so they can go kill some Hadjis!

I have no problem whatsoever with military recruiters on high school campuses as long as it's part of a career fair type environment with other, non-military options equally represented.

There are loads of chavs who are going straight from school into the military because they messed up in school and have no where to go.

I guess its ok in college and Uni's.

chaplaingrabthar wrote:I have no problem whatsoever with military recruiters on high school campuses as long as it's part of a career fair type environment with other, non-military options equally represented.

Actually, my high school(can't speak for others) had specific days allotted to the recruiters.

So, say Monday February 1st to Friday February 5th--that was the Air Force's week to be there. But they can't actually "recruit". They give you their card, let you schedule an appointment, etc.

Then a couple weeks later, that's the Army's, with the same caveats. Then a couple weeks later, the Navy, etc.

I really wish this was the case here in Canada.

We hear a lot about the Conservative Gov't saying that Canada needs a stronger military, but save for about 4 or 5 commercials and a few internet banner ads, they aren't really doing much on this.

I think setting up recruiters, even just in BC, Alberta, Ontario, and Quebec high schools would do amazing things for the military. Especially for reserve regiments, which have a min. recruitment age of 16.

We have our Reserve Regiment a good 10 minute walk from the University Campus here in town, but I think popping down a few personnel in a semi-permanent station on Campus to promote the forces would be an awesome idea too, considering the students there are always complaining about insane tuition fees, cost of books, etc...

Joining up would be a great way to minimalize those expenses.

I'm friends with a few National Guard and Air Force recruiters and have a few non-recruiter friends that are/were in the Marine Corps.

I never joined the military because I never had the desire to. I also was not wild or out of control so didn't need the disciplinary skills they teach nor the teamwork as I got teamwork skills and people skills playing paintball for 8 years.

I do think it's important the military gets it's presence out their among HS kids. It would do these kids some good. I'd love to see all the wannabe gangstas in my town and their gf'/ho'/groupies forced into 12 weeks of hard, discipline and training and then shipped over to that big desert known as Iraq and see how they make it. Problem is though is that the military (at least in the US) won't take just anybody anymore. Most would fail the ASVAB placement test or be crying on the phone to mom after the first day.

As far as brainwashing the worst brainwashers on the planet are liberal college professors but that's a whole other thread.

Well, i think it's a pretty good thing for some kids who really have no idea what to do with their future. I remember i was really impressed by the guys who came in my class presenting the Academy's Officer Educational Program (military college).
I had the chance to go into the military academy here in my country and never took it...now i'm really feeling sorry

Kanluwen's school sounds like it has the balance about right.

But the option for other large employers (and colleges) should also get time.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:Kanluwen's school sounds like it has the balance about right.

But the option for other large employers (and colleges) should also get time.

Thing is, college recruiters have a designated day that lasts *all* day.
Versus military recruiters who get just your lunch period to talk to you.

The other thing is most large employers(at least in the RDU area) require college degrees, so there's no need for them to poke around a high school.

The college I'm at, does things completely differently. Certain days during the year are Law Enforcement Career days, with every possible choice there, etc etc.

I've no problem with recruiters in schools, giving kids as many options as possible is the best way to get them the right career. some kids will be idiots in school, but once in the military they excel.
The one thing that annoys me most is when people (1% of a campus) protest because recruiters are there, they think that they are more important than anyone else and that allowing others who want to talk to a recruiter is wrong (being anti-military is fine, forcing it on others is annoying as hell).
Officer training had always been a back up plan for me during school.

I joined after college, so it obviously wasn't that influential in my decision, but putting recruiters in highschools does provide a forum in which interested youngsters can ask questions without going too far out of the way. In other words, most <18 yr olds might feel squeaming about going to a recruiter's office. But if they see that recruiter in the cafeteria, it opens up the possibility of dialogue.

My only problem with it, and this is a problem with recruiters in general, is that they will tell you pretty much anything to get you to sign up. Once the military reorganizes their commissions, this won't be a problem.

FWIW, I served in a conscript army (Tzahal, the IDF) with other American volunteers, and there was a huge difference between the Israeli conscripts and the Americans in terms of morale and attitude. Recruiters must practice full disclosure with potential recruits. The US military's greatest strength is that it's a professional, volunteer army.

My experiences with recruiters in high school was nothing like Kanluwen's. In general, I found them pushy, dishonest, and generally evasive when questioned about factual information; especially concerning the GI bill. I imagine that's simply a function of geography. The Chicago area doesn't have the same storied relationship with the military that NOVA and the Carolinas do.

Still, they weren't trying to brainwash people by any stretch of the imagination. Really, even if they wanted to do so, the format provided wouldn't have allowed it. You can't really brainwash someone who is free to simply walk away. When compared to my other experiences with recruiting I'd say that the military recruiters I've encountered sit around 4th in terms of overall annoyance.

Well now you've got to name the other 3.

1. College football coaches.

2. College wrestling coaches.

3. NGO development offices; especially when they want to hire fundraisers.

And to round out my Top 5:

5. Law school recruiters. Worst mistake I ever made was allowing LSAC to put me on a contact list.

At college/uni I have no problem with it.
I however don't like the idea of them being at high schools with a large group of younger teenagers who are more likely to be persuaded into something that they might not think through or regret later.

You cant join the military until 18, so that isn't a huge danger.

Many of the branches require at least a GED and prefer High School degrees so they aren't going to be pulling people out of school to join up.

no i read thet if your 17 and passed a certain test you can join.

garret wrote:no i read thet if your 17 and passed a certain test you can join.

Not true. I think Marines may not require a High School diploma/GED still but the others require a HSd/GED. The test is the ASVAB and everyone takes that whether they have a diploma or not. There are some programs where the military will help get a recruit a GED to be able to enlist, but until you have it you can not join.

I've got no problems with military recruiters visiting High Schools - those that do must HATE the JROTC programs available at a lot of schools. It stands for Junior Reserve Officer Training Corps and basically its a combination of military cadets meets boy scouts. Students dress in military uniforms, get taught by retired military folk, perform community service, and stuff like military dress/drill/ceremony. Some even teach how to shoot and clean rifles and most at least have drill teams where you throw inert M1 Garands around.

I've got no problem with JROTC programs either, imo the more community and resume-building stuff available for students, the better. There's no military obligation and upon successful completion of the program you can enlist as a higher rank than E-1 depending on years spent in JROTC.

Ahtman wrote:

garret wrote:no i read thet if your 17 and passed a certain test you can join.

Not true. I think Marines may not require a High School diploma/GED still but the others require a HSd/GED. The test is the ASVAB and everyone takes that whether they have a diploma or not. There are some programs where the military will help get a recruit a GED to be able to enlist, but until you have it you can not join.

IIRC it's the Army,not the Marines,that doesn't require HS diploma/GED,but I may be mistaken.

It is possible that I remembered that backwards.

Checking both, both Army and Marines said GED as a minimum, so it may be that none of the services allow drop-outs anymore.

Lord-loss wrote:There are loads of chavs who are going straight from school into the military because they messed up in school and have no where to go.

Well, at least they aren't hanging around on the street. I for one would be in favour of some form of national service, be it military or otherwise. It (in my nightmarish dystopian vision of the future ) would be mandatory for all 16+ year-olds not in full time education. Wanna go to college and learn to be a bricklayer? Fine! Plumber? Fine! But sponging off the state whilst contributing nothing but teenage pregnancy to society?


Get in the back of the van.

Yeah, you can actually sign up at 17 I think (with parental consent) but you won't actually get expected to go anywhere for processing until the day after you graduate or you are 18 if you don't graduate.

You do need a GED to enter any branch of the military and of course if you pass the ASVAB you still have to go to MEPS (Military Entrance Processing Station). You actually get a prescreen before MEPS and if you get the ok to go ahead (you won't if you are missing a limb or are deaf or blind) you get to go to the MEPS. The first day of MEPS is the first day of "training" so to speak. You are expected at the MEPS station at 4:45 AM, if you are late it will terminate your chance to get into the military; you will take a piss test that morning, if you piss hot for drugs or alcohol your enlistment is terminated and you are sent home. You actually have a curfew the night before so no staying out till 3AM, no drugs or alcohol the night before (for the reasons I just stated) and if you haven't already taken the ASVAB you will.

If you get past the ASVAB and get through MEPS than you get 8-12 weeks of the worst time of your life (depending on the branch of service you join). If you graduate than you can expect your enlistment bonus usually within 8 weeks and you are now a fully recognized and uniformed officer in the military. Congrats.

My point in all of this is that the recruiters can try to get people to sign up all they want but if they fail to get a GED or graduate HS, fail the ASVAB or have a condition that prevents them from going to MEPS then their name on the recruiter contract won't mean jack and gak.

So if you sign your name on the dotted line but decide the military isn't for you just get drunk or stoned the night before MEPS and you'll get DQ'ed just like that. You won't get a dishonorable so it won't hurt your future. You basically can feth up at any point UP to the point where you sign the final contract and get sworn in. Once you have been sworn in though and sign the final contract you are military and anything you do to harm your future WILL in fact harm your future.

Trust me, you don't want a dishonorable. Many white collar employers won't take you, no bank will borrow you money, Universities won't accept you. Get a dishonorable from military and you'll flip hamburgers and live in an RV your entire life (unless of course you stayed in military long enough to save up a nest egg). Dishonorable also means that if you put in enough time to get a pension (usually 15+ years) you lose that too.

@Ahtman,

When I was in the Marines during the 80's they required high school or GED. Not sure they ever dropped the requirement.

@Albatross,

If you ever consider running for public office over here you'll get my vote!

@Relapse - Uh, thanks man, but the last time you chaps had a Brit in charge over there, it didn't work out so well!