EBay Item # 140380510642 ( aka Fluffless fluff)

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**LunaHound**

Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:
@Luna, to clarify, If you are breaking fluff (or even just bending it) under the admitted notion of personal strategy, maximum army potential, or some other explained reasoning, by all means if it makes sense then go for it. (For instance I found the "Pink Horde" list quite comical) I only pick away at this poor Ebayer because of the false and unjustified claims at a Tzeentch army, and was wondering if anyone else had a similar experience with someone who ignorantly wields the argument of "fluff" in defense of a list (be it poor or ~~cheese~~ powerful).

Hopefully this helps put things in perspective.

Yes , but do you actually know this person? What i have been saying is , how do you confirm that the whole army = his Tzeentch army?
instead for all we know , it might be his TZEENTCH army + few extra Chaos minis he wish to get rid of TOGETHER?

For example , i have a Ork Kan wall army . But i do have loota and burnas running around.
If i want to sell my Orks , i might say Ork Kan wall army for sale . And you would be complaining about my loota and burnas been unfluffy?

**Daemon-Archon Ren**

LunaHound wrote:
Yes , but do you actually know this person? What i have been saying is , how do you confirm that the whole army = his Tzeentch army?
instead for all we know , it might be his TZEENTCH army + few extra Chaos minis he wish to get rid of TOGETHER?

What you are looking at is a large Chaos Space Marine Tzeentch Army. Everything is partially or completely painted except for 5 Terminators which are put together but they have no paint on them. If you would like to see more pictures let me know and I can email them to you. The army consists of:

Abaddon
Daemon Prince w/ Wings
Ahriman
Chaos Terminator Lord
Typhus
9 Thousand Sons w/ Sorcerer
10 Chaos Space Marines w/ Champion
10 Chaos Space Marines w/ Champion
7 Plague Marines w/ Champion
5 Raptors w/ Champion
4 Obliterators
5 Terminators
5 Terminators (unpainted)
2 Rhinos
1 Defiler
1 Vindicator
2 Land Raiders

First off,he makes it a point to say its a CSM:TA (puts the letters in gold even) then goes to claim he has Ahriman, when by the picture there is no Ahriman to be found...

LunaHound wrote:
For example , i have a Ork Kan wall army . But i do have loota and burnas running around.
If i want to sell my Orks , i might say Ork Kan wall army for sale . And you would be complaining about my loota and burnas been unfluffy?

Not necessarily, especially if you openly say "The lootas and burnas are extra"

But if you tried to claim your army was an Evil Sunz army without a hint of Fast vehicular mayhem that can be "Orks" then yes, I would call you out on your obvious misinformation about Warhammer 40k Fluff...

**LunaHound**

Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:But if you tried to claim your army was an Evil Sunz army without a hint of Fast vehicular mayhem that can be "Orks" then yes, I would call you out on your obvious misinformation about Warhammer 40k Fluff...

His army look really really blue though , i would say thats enough as a hint .

**Daemon-Archon Ren**

LunaHound wrote:His army look really really blue though , i would say thats enough as a hint .

I laff'd

10pts

**JohnHwangDD**

TheTrueProtoman wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:6. If numbers mattered, why aren't they mentioned anywhere in any the current Codex (CSM or Daemons) or Army Book (WoC, DoC, or Beasts)? Also, if you have Fluff that says that Tzeentch never fields units other than 9, please put up or shut up.

You know that even if you can say that he isn't backing anything up, you are going in on it the same way, post your proof as well?

See example above. D-AR said that the squad must number 9, but that isn't supported by any of the current rulebooks. I say that Sacred Numbers don't matter anymore. My proof is that they've been removed from all Chaos books. This is easily verifiable from the above rules books. I've amply backed my position. He hasn't. Please try to read more carefully, next time.

@D-AR: If you want to talk Fluff, please let me know where the Sacred Number Fluff is in any of the current Codices, preferably C: CSM, as that's the Army in question.

**TheTrueProtoman**

Well to argue fluff with a current one, there are no such numbers within just the Chaos space marine codex, but if you go into Chaos daemons they will be there, and any searching online will easily fill in where these numbers came from. They are there, and when it comes down to fluff, having a unit matching your favorite deity could mean good luck for you.

Do you need the numbers for fluff no, would you like to have something extra onto your army for gaks and giggles, then sure throw on the chaos god lucky number into a group of guys. Now you are arguing continuously onto the point of how you are right, and there is no such thing as a back story, every.

If you actually take the time to look around, you can easily find information you seek.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Nurgle

Here is a reference to nurgle, and his lucky number being 7. Now before you say where is the proof, this website draws all of its information from codex's new and old, and books. Now fluff wise using 7 in your army can be fluffy, rule wise there is nothing there, because its going off of FLUFF.

**JohnHwangDD**

Everybody knows where they came from, but they should also acknowledge that they simply don't apply for current CSM, and aren't a vaild criticism against a Mark-themed army which doesn't purport to be a pure Cult Legion list.

Otherwise, why not argue from antiquity about horse-car interactions or archery practice on the King's highways?

**Daemon-Archon Ren**

JohnHwangDD wrote:Everybody knows where they came from, but they should also acknowledge that they simply don't apply for current CSM, and aren't a vaild criticism against a Mark-themed army which doesn't purport to be a pure Cult Legion list.

Once apon a time...

Fluff is not the same as rules. Thats why it is FLUFF and not RULES. While there are no longer benefits for having your god's number in unit count / squad size, it still matters in terms of Fluff. If GW did not believe this they would not sell units of:

Emperor's Children (sound marines) in boxes of 6 (Slaanesh) (Pre-4th edition box)

Death Gaurd (Plague marines) in boxes of 7 (Nurgle)

World Eaters (Khorne Bezerkers) in boxes of 8 (Pre-4th edition box)

Thousand Sons (Rubric Marines) in boxes of 9 (8 rubric marines 1 aspiring sorcerer).

The numbers are for FLUFF purposes, so if one is not THEMING their army of FLUFF then one shouldn't CLAIME to be FLUFF THEMED. (Thus the critizm)

TTP Has it 100% accurate... and thats where the complaints come from... not that the army isn't Rule Legal (which, if you field everything he lists... it isnt. 4+hqs, 4+ Heavy supports, Fake Ahriman etc) but counter Fluff...

**JohnHwangDD**

As has been noted time and again:

NOT ALL TZEENTCH ARMIES ARE "PURE" THOUSAND SONS

And this hold for all of the other Marked armies not being Cult Leigion armies.

If you don't yet understand this, please print this out, tape it to a brick and beat it into your head until you get it.
____

Oh, yeah, for the record, GW sold boxes of Khorne Berzerkers and Plague Marines in units of 5. I guess that means that their Sacred Numbers are actually 5, right?

**Daemon-Archon Ren**

You really need to learn the art of discussion bro... you seem to only focus on one point time and time again, ignoring the blatant rebuttals to your other arguments and circling back to an endless paradox of "But I meant..."

So again I ask you... WHEN DID I SAY THAT IT HAD TO BE THOUSAND SONS TO BE A TZEENTCH ARMY!

IF ANY AND ALL OF THE REASONS I HAVE LISTED DO NOT CONSTITUTE A FLUFF BASED TZEENTCH ARMY THEN WHAT BY YOUR OBSCURE DEFINITION DOES CONSTITUTE A FLUFF BASED ARMY!

But then again, seeing as you run ELDRAD in a "Tian-bing" Craftworld... You probably haven't read much fluff... (Using a dead Ulthwé Farseer in a custom Craftworlf is totally fluffy...)

**TheTrueProtoman**

Well I still find it hilarious that the guy wants that much for a gakky painted, wrong advertised ebay auction. Since if I was paying 300 bucks I would atleast want the units i'm paying for correctly, since I actually like using ahriman and I wanted to purchase his army I would be sad for the fact is that what I just bought looks like gak and no ahriman in sight. Also I run my plague marines with their lucky number everytime.

**JohnHwangDD**

Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:You really need to learn the art of discussion bro...

But then again, seeing as you run ELDRAD in a "Tian-bing" Craftworld... You probably haven't read much fluff... (Using a dead Ulthwé Farseer in a custom Craftworlf is totally fluffy...)

First off, I'm not your "bro"... call me that again, and I'll tase you in a second.

Second, you suck at rebuttal.

Third, you interpret the "Tzeentch" theme so narrowly, that only a Thousand Sons Cult list based on obsolete Fluff can satisfy you, when there is no basis for your argument in in the current Codex.

Fourth, if you can't understand the simple concept of "counts as", then you're really beyond help.

And with that, I wish you a fine time in your little narrow-minded universe of obsolete Fluff.

**LunaHound**

John , i bet you that is someone's alt account.

**MIKEtheMERCILESS**

Somewhere out there, a 12 yr old child is watching his ebay List, completely oblivious to the carnage he has caused.

What a bizarre debate we're having.

**Daemon-Archon Ren**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
First off, I'm not your "bro"... call me that again, and I'll tase you in a second.

ok bro.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Second, you suck at rebuttal.

Example?

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Third, you interpret the "Tzeentch" theme so narrowly, that only a Thousand Sons Cult list based on obsolete Fluff can satisfy you, when there is no basis for your argument in in the current Codex.

Example? (like, go ahead and quote me where I say that only Thousand Sons Cult lists are Tzeentch themed.)

JohnHwangDD wrote:
Fourth, if you can't understand the simple concept of "counts as", then you're really beyond help.

Example?

JohnHwangDD wrote:
And with that, I wish you a fine time in your little narrow-minded universe of obsolete Fluff.

Example of any of the fluff we have discussed here being "obsolete". Like, where did the Ret-con the numbers, and when did they add the Herald of Nurgle, and his chosen Space Marines (death Guard) to the theme of Tzeentch.

So please, list examples.

Otherwise, you are just ~10k posts of "All talk" (which from what I have seen, is probably the case)

@Luna: No

@Mike: Yes

**xGhost4000x**

Why do you hate Ebay armies OP?

I got my army from Ebay(here and there)......

Sometimes you go with what you can afford. If I got the same thing from my local store it would have costs me a small fortune....

**Daemon-Archon Ren**

@xGhost

The point wasn't that I hate ebay armies. Hell, Half of my forces I buy off of Ebay (its much cheaper) and my initial investment into Dark Eldar was from a 3000 point army I got back in 2k1.

I love Ebay! The point is that this listing was an example of someone who not only did not know the fluff of the game (whist trying to claim a certain theme) but also misrepresented the models. Thats where my qualm lay. For as a lover of Ebay and a player of Chaos Tzeentch (both CSM and CD) I tend to look for "Tzeentch" listings, this listing was misrepresented(in a humorous light) and as such also brought up the point of "Does anyone else have gamers in their group that misrepresent fluff in their lists"

It sadly made a 90 degree turn off course and devolved into a conversation of "Fluff does not matter for army lists" (Which was not the point at all btw) so I can understand the confusion...

**xGhost4000x**

Yea I understand you were talking about the listing....

See I thought you were saying from the line below that there was something wrong with Ebay armies.....my bad if I misinterpreted it..

"Now the point isn't to just make fun of this shining example of Ebay-Armies (while in itself, is more then enough fun for a thread) but to instead ask... "

**Daemon-Archon Ren**

xGhost4000x wrote:
See I thought you were saying from the line below that there was something wrong with Ebay armies.....my bad if I misinterpreted it..

"Now the point isn't to just make fun of this shining example of Ebay-Armies (while in itself, is more then enough fun for a thread) but to instead ask... "

I meant similar listings, as some people have some mighty funny stuff up there, especially in the warhammer realm of things...

**Anarchyman99**

We should all relax, just because he spelled "Ultramarines" wrong....ie "Tzeentch"....they are Blue Marines right?