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Manchu wrote:I think SW has a better chance of surviving in the popular imagination than Star Trek because it is more psychologically elemental. SW as a franchise . . . I don't know. As far as I'm concerned, it's not doing well. But I can't back that up with numbers. The Clone Wars series is in season 2, there's a new MMO coming up, a never ending stream of toys pumped into stores, and several series of novels and comics. I guess it just may be that SW belongs to someone else now. As for Trek, the last movie was very entertaining but also kind of alienating. Trek has always, it seems to me, struggled more as a franchise than SW. Were Generations, Insurrection, and Nemesis (compared to which Search for Spock and especially Final Frontier were both very passable), for example, that much worse a movie than Episodes I and II? Enterprise, too, seemed like an alright if somewhat dragging show (no worse, IMO, than Voyager but certainly no DS9). I won't even bring up the video games . . .
Star Trek is not as big a franchise as Star Wars, but being the second biggest hamburger chain behind McDonalds isn't really a position of weakness. The Star Trek movies have been very successful - even Insurrection was profitable despite being rubbish (thought it's crappiness probably contributed to Nemesis' poor box office). That's before you include the DVD sales, endless reprints of encyclopedias, toys and models, ship schematics, books, comic books and other fiction... I wouldn't be surprised in annual revenue was in the realm of a billion dollars.
Remember that ST: Enterprise struggled in the ratings over its life, but the production company kept it going and even ran the show at a loss, because keeping a Trek show on the air meant a lot to their on-going merchanise sales. When a marginal property like old Battlestar Galactica disappears off the air they wait 30 odd years before trying again, but when Trek had one unwatched TV series and one unprofitable movie they waited a couple of years before giving the property to an a-list director for a reboot.
To answer the OP's question, yeah the franchises as we know them now will die, or certainly get a lot more marginalised. There is a lot of money to be made in building franchises that appeal to geeks, and as a result we're now getting all kinds of franchises built every year. While Trek and Star Wars have 30 years of history and an established fan base, it's inevitable that something will come along and usurp them sooner or later.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Eventually, Star Wars and Star Trek will go the way of Flash Gordon and The Phantom. Some of the Sci-Fi tech of the programs/movies has already been surpassed (I get a kick out of Mr.Spock's analog countdown machine). Hell, even my phone which I paid exactly nothing for is way better than anything Captain Kirk had. Grant it, mine is made with bearskins and knives.
A better debate would be who is more awesome: Kirk or Solo?
Munch Munch! wrote:Oh yeah. Plus his phlem soaked voice was really gross. BTW was anyone else creeped out by his black teeth?
Almost as much as by anakin's manscara.
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"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude
Manchu wrote:You would think that something would have inevitably come along in the last thirty years to usurp them but . . .
In 1977 the Soviet Union celebrated its 60th anniversary, you'd think if they were going to collapse it would have happened by then. Everyone says collapse is inevitable until it happens, then everyone says it was inevitable.
Now, I'm not saying that either Star Trek or Star Wars are going to collapse anytime soon, I'm just saying that forever is a long time and the market payoff for anything that can usurp either is growing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/02/08 06:28:34
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Prepare yourself, I am just waiting for the reviews for episode 2-3.
Yes, I agree in general with this guy, and yes, I have literally no interest in discussing why people would even think that episode 1-3 were any good at all.
Have fun.
Make sure to watch the entire review, and listen to him. Just listen... and remember to laugh intermittently, when you think he just made a joke. That was a joke right? Oh... it wasn't?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/02/08 06:53:46
Look for finemolds models AFAIK, theyre about to release a new Falcon model, scale 1:144.
Also, check out the the replica prop forum (http://www.therpf.com/index.php). They got some great studio scale builds as well as all kinds of other awesomeness.
Now the movies ...
EP1 was a train-wreck and I think everybody knows this. That doesnt mean that it makes me like Star Wars in general any less. EP2 was alright, EP3 is my favorite next to ESB.
Now the clone wars. Its getting better and better. Every episode basically trumps the previous one. And you gotta remember, that its suppose to be a family-friendly show. Your kids wont give a damn if you dont like it or think its killing SW. Because to them, thats not the way it works. To the kids, EP1-3 & the clone wars IS Star Wars. You show em AHN and they look at you with that "WTF is this s**t" look. And whining ... oh yes....
"But I wanne go to the Toshi station to pick up some power converters".
Anyways. Im a big fan of the overall story that is Star Wars. Inclunding the original movies, the prequels, the EU, hell I enjoy TCW a helluva lot more than I enjoyed the clone wars micro series. Any expansive universe like this is bound to have some weak points. So what EP1 sucks, I couldnt care less. Because SW in general is pure WIN!
metallifan said: I almost wonder is "Matt Ward" another pen name for C.S. Goto?
metallifan said: The Imperium would probably love Hitler...
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As long as Star Wars and Star Trek continue to make money they'll be around.
I think Star Trek will win out in the end - there'll be more movies and its a franchise/license thats easier to harness. Who knows though, maybe after Lucas croaks some fans will be able to get the Star Wars movie rights and release the prequels that should've been
The narator sounds like Ben Stein with marbles in his mouth.
GG
p.s. I get it, he's supposed to sound like that.
This is the full series of videos that start in Wrexsaur's post. If anything, watch Part 6, it pretty much sums up what I dislike about the Prequels, with a great quote from George Lucas in there too.
And so, due to rising costs of maintaining the Golden Throne, the Emperor's finest accountants spoke to the Demigurg. A deal was forged in blood and extensive paperwork for a sub-prime mortgage with a 5/1 ARM on the Imperial Palace. And lo, in the following years the housing market did tumble and the rate skyrocketed leaving the Emperor's coffers bare. A dark time has begun for the Imperium, the tithes can not keep up with the balloon payments and the Imperial Palace and its contents, including the Golden Throne, have fallen into foreclosure. With an impending auction on the horizon mankind holds its breath as it waits to see who will gain possession of the corpse-god and thus, the fate of humanity......
On the movies, they where great and imagination inspiring as a kid. Now they are just long. However, I still do love the look of the Storm Trooper and AT-AT walker.
I am both selfish and chaotic. I value self-gratification and control; I want to have things my way, preferably now. At best, I'm entertaining and surprising; at worst, I'm hedonistic and violent.
In all seriousness though, I was never really crazy about the originals. Call me cynical, but I just didn't think they were all that.
I like the series, but I don't get why it's fanbase is quite so hugemungous. In my mind, though, it died with the animated Cartoon series. When Droids had feelings and they played stripper music when C3P0 takes off a piece of clothing, I called it quits and lost all respect for Lucas.
mattyboy22 wrote:
This is the full series of videos that start in Wrexsaur's post. If anything, watch Part 6, it pretty much sums up what I dislike about the Prequels, with a great quote from George Lucas in there too.
You know what I thought was interesting was the look on the faces of the producers in the viewing room after they had finished watching the movie for the first time. It was like,"This movie sucks, how can we get out of this mess" And then Lucas says "Maybe I've over done it". LOL
And then he starts to try and figure out how he can fix the movie, but it's too late.
GG
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/02/09 13:39:08
garret wrote:honestly the only reason i think the adults hated them is because they expected them to take them back to there child hood. and we all know you can never go back there.
Disagree. Pirates of the Caribbean and the new Star Trek movie. I enjoyed that movies as if I were 7 (I'm 27).
Episodes I-III will never reach the status of the original trilogy. As someone said before me, they have many good stuff, like OST, epic duels and such. I would have liked them better if they would have been more similar to Episode III. I absolutely loved to see again the corridors of the Tantive IV and know Captain Antilles - about time! I loved to see moments like Anakin beginning with Jedi purge. I loved Darth Maul's saber. But I hate what the actors did. And I hate seeing that half movie is CGI. I wanted more "used space" and more cardboard and paint. I wanted Anakin being heroic, not a cocky whining kid.
Obi Wan didn't kill Anakin.
Palpatine didn't kill Anakin.
Luke didn't kill Anakin.
George Lucas did.
The problem with episode III was,like Eps.I-II,it also suffered from the "lets cram as much gak on the screen as we can CGI bug",sometimes less really IS more.
I will however say that of the 3 "preqeules" Episode III is the "best".
I am both selfish and chaotic. I value self-gratification and control; I want to have things my way, preferably now. At best, I'm entertaining and surprising; at worst, I'm hedonistic and violent.
A full screen isn't always a bad thing. A good example of this was the space battle at the beginning of Episode III. Yes, it was overwhelming. Yes, it was supposed to feel overwhelming and sharply contrast to the Jedi's casual attitude which makes them appear like epic heroes rather than regular grunts. The reviews posted by Wrex, et al., aregood no doubt but the guy overdoes it sometimes. One example of this is his weak cheap shot about the length of the duel in Episode III. If you're bored during that scene, you must have an attention span problem. Good luck making it through the nearly silent, totally still, achingly long scenes of "artistic" cinema (*cough cough* 2001--or should that be *snore snore* 2001?).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/02/10 00:18:05
While I will agree that the opening battle/final light sabre duel in Episode 3 were good( and I will only say "good" as they were still LOADED with wooden dialouge),I still belive that Eps I-III were still over loaded with BOOM BANG POW & no where near enough character development/content.
You must remember my friend that I sat totaly engrossed by 3 men in an old beaten up boat chasing a yellow plastic barrel around the ocean (JAWS),simply because I "cared" about the characters.
I am both selfish and chaotic. I value self-gratification and control; I want to have things my way, preferably now. At best, I'm entertaining and surprising; at worst, I'm hedonistic and violent.
I offer no defense of Episodes I and II. I totally forgive the woodeness of III, however, because of how cathartic it was.
As for any lack of emotion or development:
"YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE!"
This scene is the first in all three movies (actually all six, to be really honest) where Anakin/Vader and Obi-Wan feel like they actually have had some kind of real friendship. And I believed it totally, even Hayden Christensen's wail of "I hate you!" This movie was emotionally soaring throughout. Yes, there are lame bits, too, but you can hardly say that IV-VI are perfect gems. Revenge of the Sith is definitely in The Empire Strikes Back's league. For me, it's a better and more important film.
I actually cried in episdoe III....not your total sobbing, needing a hanky kind of cry, but tears were shed. It was at the point where Anakin is confronted by Padme on the volcano planet.
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