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Im seeing a lot of differences in Dash army´s way of combat. (im talking as i was a outstanding commander...hehehe )
But one thing i have noted is the lack of kommandos !!!
Can i ask you why?
I dont have Warbuggies, and because of it, i never use them. But you think they could help your army? IMO, they dont use LD and it´s great, but i still prefer the Deffkopta, due to their small size compared to the Buggie (i could be wrong) but i think they have a better chance to acheive a good spot with cover to shoot!

i dont have a opinion formed about the 5 lootas ! i Always tought in maximize ever. But i´ll look by another prism this idea.

good luck for you in the tourny and thanks for your ideas and tactics, you have helped me a lot!

Kveldulv wrote:What would be the disadvantages of having two 10-man loota squads instead of one 15-man and one 5-man?

I can think of some advantages:

- Harder target priority for your opponent
- Easier deployment (unless your cover is really small)
- Better chance at taking out two vehicles a turn.

The 10-man unit's biggest problem is leadership. A couple hits, they flee, and they are probably on the back edge, so they're gone.

The 5-man unit is usually ignored, so they get to shoot unhindered, or annihilated, meaning your opponent has wasted firepower on them that could have been spent elsewhere, so leadership not an issue. The 15-man mob can absorb a lot more shooting before they flee, so they have more staying power.

Otherwise, yes, the 10-man squads would be fine. Just that pesky ork leadership.

rvianarpg wrote:Im seeing a lot of differences in Dash army´s way of combat. (im talking as i was a outstanding commander...hehehe )
But one thing i have noted is the lack of kommandos !!!
Can i ask you why?
I dont have Warbuggies, and because of it, i never use them. But you think they could help your army? IMO, they dont use LD and it´s great, but i still prefer the Deffkopta, due to their small size compared to the Buggie (i could be wrong) but i think they have a better chance to acheive a good spot with cover to shoot!

i dont have a opinion formed about the 5 lootas ! i Always tought in maximize ever. But i´ll look by another prism this idea.

good luck for you in the tourny and thanks for your ideas and tactics, you have helped me a lot!

He used to use Kommandoes, but took them out in favor of more anti-tank. I find that making your opponent deploy farther forward doesn't help much in a mechanised list, because your get to them fast anyway. In footslogging however, they are very useful.

Snikkyd wrote:

rvianarpg wrote:Im seeing a lot of differences in Dash army´s way of combat. (im talking as i was a outstanding commander...hehehe )
But one thing i have noted is the lack of kommandos !!!
Can i ask you why?
I dont have Warbuggies, and because of it, i never use them. But you think they could help your army? IMO, they dont use LD and it´s great, but i still prefer the Deffkopta, due to their small size compared to the Buggie (i could be wrong) but i think they have a better chance to acheive a good spot with cover to shoot!

i dont have a opinion formed about the 5 lootas ! i Always tought in maximize ever. But i´ll look by another prism this idea.

good luck for you in the tourny and thanks for your ideas and tactics, you have helped me a lot!

He used to use Kommandoes, but took them out in favor of more anti-tank. I find that making your opponent deploy farther forward doesn't help much in a mechanised list, because your get to them fast anyway. In footslogging however, they are very useful.

Thanks for the Answer!

I was thinking what was the point in remove the kommandos
The idea is good.

I've been experimenting with 5 man loota units latley. 1. They run pretty easily (but only 75 points and it drew fire)2. thought it would be good for splitting fire but 15 really ups the odds of getting hits (goes from pretty much one vehicle down a round to mabey a hit or two), when I got lucky it was awsome. In the end at the RT I was at they really didnt add much compaired to the last RT in wich I ran two units of 13 (still need to kill 4 for a check and maintains ROF).

Grimgob wrote:I've been experimenting with 5 man loota units latley. 1. They run pretty easily (but only 75 points and it drew fire)2. thought it would be good for splitting fire but 15 really ups the odds of getting hits (goes from pretty much one vehicle down a round to mabey a hit or two), when I got lucky it was awsome. In the end at the RT I was at they really didnt add much compaired to the last RT in wich I ran two units of 13 (still need to kill 4 for a check and maintains ROF).

I was thinkimg about it right now. I think they should run of the table really easy in a group of only 5.
IMO i think i prefer to spend those points in other things like more gretchins, or more koptas, of course i know the role is different but even so i thought it is a best use of the points.

rvianarpg wrote:

Grimgob wrote:

I've been experimenting with 5 man loota units latley. 1. They run pretty easily (but only 75 points and it drew fire)2. thought it would be good for splitting fire but 15 really ups the odds of getting hits (goes from pretty much one vehicle down a round to mabey a hit or two), when I got lucky it was awsome. In the end at the RT I was at they really didnt add much compaired to the last RT in wich I ran two units of 13 (still need to kill 4 for a check and maintains ROF).

I was thinkimg about it right now. I think they should run of the table really easy in a group of only 5.

IMO i think i prefer to spend those points in other things like more gretchins, or more koptas, of course i know the role is different but even so i thought it is a best use of the points.

If you lose 2 then you have a 41% chance of them running. But if they run you are only losing 45 points.

If they get 1 shot you're looking at around 50% chance of at least preventing your opponent from shooting.
If they get 2 shots it's almost guaranteed.
If they get 3 shots you likely destroy your target or at least damage it significantly.

Well, for the same points as those lootas, you could have battery of kannons, which would distract just as much fire, but probably deal more damage. Especially if you take 3 ammo runts for rerolls. I think they could work.

Snikkyd wrote:Well, for the same points as those lootas, you could have battery of kannons, which would distract just as much fire, but probably deal more damage. Especially if you take 3 ammon runts for rerolls. I think they could work.

Agreed and I'd probably take those if my heavy slots weren't filled with battlewagons

Kevin Nash wrote:

Snikkyd wrote:Well, for the same points as those lootas, you could have battery of kannons, which would distract just as much fire, but probably deal more damage. Especially if you take 3 ammon runts for rerolls. I think they could work.

Agreed and I'd probably take those if my heavy slots weren't filled with battlewagons

This. The fact that you have to spend Heavy slots for transports are what slows down the support fire options. I'd love to have a battery or two of guns, at least compared price-wise with lootas, but if I'm not running max wagons in these types of lists, I worry about getting there.

Oh, well I thought he had an open slot, I figure the Ork HS choices are pretty good ( except maybe Flash Gitz) so theres not much reason to not fill them up.

Snikkyd wrote:Oh, well I thought he had an open slot, I figure the Ork HS choices are pretty good ( except maybe Flash Gitz) so theres not much reason to not fill them up.

He actually does I believe. I was talking about my triple BW list.

You raise a valid point though, 3 kannons with runts is proabably better than 5 lootas, at least early in the game when using runts, especially in a pitched battle (but probably not spearhead).

I believe we already ran this idea by dash but he didn't like it because he doesn't actually own the models.

Skarboy wrote:

Kevin Nash wrote:

Snikkyd wrote:Well, for the same points as those lootas, you could have battery of kannons, which would distract just as much fire, but probably deal more damage. Especially if you take 3 ammon runts for rerolls. I think they could work.

Agreed and I'd probably take those if my heavy slots weren't filled with battlewagons

This. The fact that you have to spend Heavy slots for transports are what slows down the support fire options. I'd love to have a battery or two of guns, at least compared price-wise with lootas, but if I'm not running max wagons in these types of lists, I worry about getting there.

There is a way around this limitation if you dedicated a wagon to the nobs, a trukk to some foot orks and then mess around with troop/transport musical transports. But I think it's more trouble than it's worth and really raises the cost of only 3 measly kannons.

Kevin Nash wrote:There is a way around this limitation if you dedicated a wagon to the nobs, a trukk to some foot orks and then mess around with troop/transport musical transports. But I think it's more trouble than it's worth and really raises the cost of only 3 measly kannons.

Yeah, I prefer not to do the "transport shuffle." Like you said, the payoff isn't worth it. I wish they'd just let ork mobs in general buy dedicated transports, but that's probably just wishful thinking.

I haven't considered batteries before; not sure if the idea got presented or not. I could do it easily enough - I've got zzap guns and kannons from battlewagons that could get mounted on some wheels, and I've got gretchin that can serve as crew.

I've never played with them or considered them before, mostly because of my focus on fast mechanization.

Dashofpepper wrote:I haven't considered batteries before; not sure if the idea got presented or not. I could do it easily enough - I've got zzap guns and kannons from battlewagons that could get mounted on some wheels, and I've got gretchin that can serve as crew.

I've never played with them or considered them before, mostly because of my focus on fast mechanization.

I suggested them to you two weeks ago =P.

Kannons are great and I would use them in any list where I had the heavy slot available. That's difficult to achieve with BW spam but if for some reason you have that third slot....

Make sure you take ammo runts. Make sure you put the grots in cover (giving the entire unit a cover save despite the fact they are vehicles).

I'd run them in addition to the lootas not instead of them but that's because I love shooting.

@Nash- would you throw those kannons as close to the front as possible (in cover obviously) or would you put them in the back of the field and allow an opponent to target it for the measly 60ish points they would get by killing the battery?

I am currently trying 1 heavy slot of lobbas for my footsloggers and they are decent at annoying horde armies and pinning units it hits when their transports pop. With indirect fire and a sag big mek attached to them, it provides loads of fun against my enemies.

Kannons are far more versatile though.

Well, if you can get together some Kannons, you should take them instead. If not, thats fine.

Hey, the Deffrolla can ram now, will you be using more wagons from now on because of that? Or will you just add them here?

Deffrollas will definitely be going into the list.

Not sure how, or if there will be more battlewagons yet - but I can't change my list for the SVDM GT that I'm going to this week, so I'll adjust afterwards.

Dash is your list finalized in the first post? What are you taking to the GT?

Yeah bad timing on the ruling, but at least we finallu have one!

Seriously, the codex was released around 2 years ago. I can't believe it took that long to rule that. I figured you may go all wagons or something to capitalise on it, but you may only need 2, plus its mostly for taking out LRs anyway.

Kevin Nash wrote:
Dash is your list finalized in the first post? What are you taking to the GT?

Not taking this to the GT; no time to build warbuggies. What I have:

Ghazghkull
KFF Mek

17 Boyz+Nob(Wagon with KFF)
12 boyz in trukk
12 boyz in trukk
10 gretchin/runtherder

15 burnas (Wagon with Ghaz)
15 Lootas
15 Lootas

1 Deffkopta, Rokkits and Buzzsaw
1 of the same

2x Battlewagons, 'Eavy armor, boarding plank, grabbin klaw, big shoota

That sucks, the new list seems better, with the buggies and gretchin. Maybe next time.

You forgot to write in the mandatory, auto-include Deffrollas.

Fearspect wrote:You forgot to write in the mandatory, auto-include Deffrollas.

I don't think he had the time, but yes, everyone will have Deffrollas now.

I've updated my list to 2k, and optimized it for what I think the final iteration is going to be.

Agh, that burna squad looks sooooo nasty! I have wanted tor try that for a while myself.

how are those warbuggys working for you? really have been thinking of testing them out my self.

Reecius wrote:Agh, that burna squad looks sooooo nasty! I have wanted tor try that for a while myself.

Head over to battle reports - you can see how they did in the GT I was at this weekend.

*holds flame template over squad and says to opponent...*

"How many can I get? Its up to you."

Opponent says, "You've got nine there."

I say, "Ok, great! 15 burnas unloading on your nine guys....what's nine times fifteen?"

Dashofpepper wrote:

Reecius wrote:Agh, that burna squad looks sooooo nasty! I have wanted tor try that for a while myself.

Head over to battle reports - you can see how they did in the GT I was at this weekend.

*holds flame template over squad and says to opponent...*

"How many can I get? Its up to you."

Opponent says, "You've got nine there."

I say, "Ok, great! 15 burnas unloading on your nine guys....what's nine times fifteen?"

Not to diminish the hilarity of that ass kicking you gave those necrons but did you count to see how many hits you actually needed? I'm curious.