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They broke her fence, then asked her to pay for half of their new one, the whole situation would make me laugh in the neighbor's faces.

She is a minor, what freaking plonkers...

1. Take pictures. Many. In this day and age of digital photography, pictures weigh little and cost little.

2. Make no statements, demands, or "requirements". Honestly Luna, you are not an attorney, surveyor or real estate professional. You are also NOT the owner. More than likely anything you say will be thrown out in court, but that is supposition on my part. It's not your place to do anything other than tell them to contact the owner. I would write down a lengthy, detailed accoutn of all events and all interactions with them regading this incident, just so you have something to jog yiour memory when your rents come home. Over any length of time, memory fades and the small details go first. Having a nice reference around can help heaps. Do not let anyone know you are doing this until you turn it over to your parents.

3. Do not try to take this responsibility on. You are a minor Luna, go do minor things. Let your parents defend what is theirs. That includes you. Dont try and be the adult. I am not trying to say you are incapable of handling it, but rather that you should not HAVE to. You should be watching this one clinically form the sidelines, seeing what each side does, how they interact, and how it ends up in the end for them. VERY good lessons to learn here, including a possible validation/refutation of your mother's methods that you seem to disagree with. Valuable lessons here.

4. Do not give them a god damn thing. I wouldnt even give them the time of fething day. They try and take anything, or come onto the property uninvited, then I would certainly involve the police. Do not hesitaate. Even if they can do nothig, having a record that you were seeking exterior help could be useful. What could it hurt, to call the cops?

Good luck to you Luna.

You can defend yourself very effectively by telling them everything must wait until your parents get home.

I agree. Screw yer new neighbors your fence was fine before they showed up, so their mess is not your problem, parents or otherwise... just invest in a crowbar or something for the next time the a hole comes back. don't give them anything. Your fence existed. They made it not exist. Their choice to buy a new couch doesn't make you have to put cushions on it either, right? So why would their choice for a new fence warrant you having to pay for your half of a fence they wanted that you didn't need, want, or care about in the first place? Depending on yer neighbors, keeps a ballbat or crowbar or shotgun handy though if he keeps showing up trying to charge you for his stupid mess.

Guitardian wrote:I agree. Screw yer new neighbors....

@Luna: Don't screw your neighbors. That will just complicate matters even more.

I'd tell them to pound sand until they offer to cover 100% of the repairs the fence that they damaged.

Assuming that they do that, then I'd be willing to pay half, minus the *entire* cost of repairing the damage they did / removing my existing fence / estimating cost.

YOU are not the owner of the property so YOU do not have to do squat. They can demand all they want to no effect. Fix your own fence if you must and hunker down until the legal owner (your mother?) returns. It is customary to pay for half the cost of a fence but you already have a fence so they are on their own if they want to put one on their property. Also, I do not think these people are ever going to be your friends, an armed truce sounds like the best you can hope for!

I having dealt with a problem similar to this I would offer you this advice:

1. Don't ever pay for something not on your property.

2. Ask to see their land survey AND building / zoning permit. Chances are they don't have both. Without a survey they can not accurately build a boundary fence.

3. Type up a letter asking them to pay in full for the damages done to your fence, and if possible get a quote from a local contractor and attach it. Make sure they respond in wighting. Make sure the letter is polite, dated, and make duplicates.

4. Don't give them any money. I thought with was worth repeating since they seem to be trying to tack advantage of you.

Good luck.

Clthomps wrote:I having dealt with a problem similar to this I would offer you this advice:

1. Don't ever pay for something not on your property.

2. Ask to see their land survey AND building / zoning permit. Chances are they don't have both. Without a survey they can not accurately build a boundary fence.

3. Type up a letter asking them to pay in full for the damages done to your fence, and if possible get a quote from a local contractor and attach it. Make sure they respond in wighting. Make sure the letter is polite, dated, and make duplicates.

4. Don't give them any money. I thought with was worth repeating since they seem to be trying to tack advantage of you.

Good luck.

I will do the ones high lighted in red.
How do i accurately figure out the boundary zone?

LunaHound wrote:

Clthomps wrote:I having dealt with a problem similar to this I would offer you this advice:

1. Don't ever pay for something not on your property.

2. Ask to see their land survey AND building / zoning permit. Chances are they don't have both. Without a survey they can not accurately build a boundary fence.

3. Type up a letter asking them to pay in full for the damages done to your fence, and if possible get a quote from a local contractor and attach it. Make sure they respond in wighting. Make sure the letter is polite, dated, and make duplicates.

4. Don't give them any money. I thought with was worth repeating since they seem to be trying to tack advantage of you.

Good luck.

I will do the ones high lighted in red.

How do i accurately figure out the boundary zone?

You shouldn't do any of the things highlighted in red. You should listen to KilKrazy. All you have to do is tell them they must deal directly with your parents when they return. Then politely tell them good day, and close your door or walk away. If they continue to ask, intimidate or bother you on your own property, you may call the police to escort them off and remind them again that you have no authority in this matter and that they must contact your parents.

Take detailed pictures of the damaged fence and write down detailed accounts of what is happening.

If you do decide to do the things highlighted in red, it's very possible that you could damage your case when your parents do finally get home to resolve it.

I meant i'll follow them ><
like do as what clthomps say ^^;

No offense to Clthomps, but most of his advice is entirely useless.

I can almost guarantee they have both a survey, and zoning permits. Beyond this, you are a minor, and your actions will be effectively null and void in a court hearing. Read: ENTIRELY A WASTE OF YOUR TIME.

Don't do anything, this is completely out of your control. TBH, you could end up causing problems for your parents when they get back. This stuff is almost always messy, just don't get involved. Take pictures of the damage, that is all.

The less you have anything to do with your neighbors, the better. Keep trying to get in contact with your parents, and ask them to get call a lawyer about the situation. As long as you are not provoking your neighbors, any constant requests from them, could be construed as harassment due to your age/situation.

Wow, kinda rude neighbors.

First off, looks like you will have to wait for the parents. If they broke your fence, they should pay for your fence. Now if it improves your property as well, they can ask you to pay for half of it, and get an agreement to put it on the property line. If they put it on the property line it must be certain they are not overing on your acreage! (may add cost to get it surveyed unless it is marked by a bearing) If the owner does not want to pay for half they could put it totally on their property, there is no reason for your parents to pay for it.

Just a disclaimer, I know nothing of housing disputes!! I am shooting from the hip here. I work in forestry and fire, and deal with property lines and ownership of allotments and timber at times! Plenty fences out in the forests are totally on 1 owners property, due to the other owner (sometimes state) did not help pay for the fence.

Well ... asking my parents is out of the question , their attitude is like.

Dad: If you cant take care of something like this , how would i entrust you with anything in the future.

Mom: I can care less since its nothing to do with me.

Me: Oh FFS ( but i dont tell them i think that )

Your parents sound irresponsible.

This has absolutely nothing to do with you, and your bound to find at one way or another. I just hope you don't spend a bunch of time trying to fix a problem that is well out of your control.

If the house is actually in your name, which I doubt would matter in the least, you may be able to do something. That aside, your folks need to grow up and deal with this problem.

I dont blame them , because i understand why my dad feel i should learn how to deal with this.

And i also understand why my mom want no part to do with this.

And i also know if i dont do it , NO ONE will ...
trust me , they are in a war with each other , im like the collateral / tool.

But yes , for now i wont do anything , but monday i'll phone city hall and atleast get some info on the local laws.

There is nothing wrong with you studying local laws, and talking to various professionals. In the whole of it, you still will have very little recourse at your 'personal' disposal. It has everything to do with the laws, and literally nothing to do with what your parents want to see out of you in life.

Contact a lawyer who specializes in this stuff, a Landscape Architect, Surveyor, Contractor, and so on. You are unlikely to get much free advice, but poking around a little bit, will give you a bit more information. Professionals make their living knowing nitty-gritty details, and as such, few are willing to help out random people for free.

A good place to get generic information on all of this, would be your city hall, and your local library. I would not be surprised if you could find a librarian that could help you find some good information on the subject. At your city hall though, their may be a few professionals on staff, that are there just to answer your questions. This varies quite a bit, given country, county, etc... but it is a possibility. Anything you can learn is good, but don't try and take any action, just pictures, and continue to ignore your neighbors.

I see two resolutions to this (these would be my two choices if this happened to me while my father was away for an extended period of time and for some reason none of my relatives were handy for assistance):

Option A: Twelve gauge loaded with bird shot and a lawn chair. Ya ain't crossin' mah propertah line, partnuh.

Option B: Tell them that once I've had the fence repaired, I'll be expecting them to repay me for time and materials (my fence is all wood, I actually replaced a twenty foot segment this summer due to rot). Then get a shotgun and a lawn chair. And some wiener attack dogs.

If you're a minor, you can't legally enter into a contract with anyone. And shame on the neighbors and your parents if they don't understand this.

The most important thing is to stand your ground. Bullies win disagreements like this by slowly wearing you down, in effect, pulling a con-job on you. Hold your ground, don't back down.

It's not unreasonable to try to reach some middle ground. But, if the neighbors are unreasonable, there is no middle ground. And if that's the case, then I would suggest telling your parents 1) what you've attempted to do; and 2) that you need their help, consul, and wisdom to resolve the issue.

IMHO, your parents (if they have already said that) are being COMPLETELY unreasonable, (if they hadn't and you just think thats what they would say, then they would almost definately not say that) you had absolutely nothing to do with the fence being broken, so you don't have do anything, its your parents house, and its your parents responsibility to sort this sort of thing out, it doesn't matter that they aren't there for whatever reason. Besides, its UTTERLY STUPID AND RIDICULOUS that they (the neighbours) expect you, a minor, to pay for the damage that they caused, and then pay for a new fence. It is nothing to do with you, it is not your house. Why can't they just wait until your parents get back? They (the neighbours) are clearly complete Scumbags, and are trying to take you for a ride, I would literally tell them to go feth themselves, and If they don't, I reckon you would be at complete liberty to phone the police due to harrasment.

I'm not actually a homeowner (don't flame me for this, the sitution made me very annoyed), but from any veiwpoint what they are asking you to do is completely ridiculous.

EDIT: Hmmm, perhaps my post was a bit strong, however, the point still stands: it isn't your house, therefor it has nothing to do with you unless you caused the damage.

dietrich wrote:If you're a minor, you can't legally enter into a contract with anyone. And shame on the neighbors and your parents if they don't understand this.

The most important thing is to stand your ground. Bullies win disagreements like this by slowly wearing you down, in effect, pulling a con-job on you. Hold your ground, don't back down.

It's not unreasonable to try to reach some middle ground. But, if the neighbors are unreasonable, there is no middle ground. And if that's the case, then I would suggest telling your parents 1) what you've attempted to do; and 2) that you need their help, consul, and wisdom to resolve the issue.

Under English contact law, minors can enter into contracts.

English contract law is the basis of US and Canadian contract law. Therefore, I would recommend checking if the restriction on minors applies in Canada.

Kilkrazy wrote:English contract law is the basis of US and Canadian contract law. Therefore, I would recommend checking if the restriction on minors applies in Canada.

Interesting. In the US, minors can't be legally bound to a contract because they are not considered of 'sound mind'. Because, in the time it takes someone to go from 17 years and 364 days old to 18 years and 0 days old...they suddenly become wise. It's why you can't enter into a contract when you're drunk, under duress, mentally disabled, etc. While a minor can agree to a contract, it wouldn't hold up in court. And if they presented themselves as minors, the other party would get their knuckles rapped by a nun with ruler for trying to agree to a contract.

Kilkrazy wrote:

dietrich wrote:If you're a minor, you can't legally enter into a contract with anyone. And shame on the neighbors and your parents if they don't understand this.

The most important thing is to stand your ground. Bullies win disagreements like this by slowly wearing you down, in effect, pulling a con-job on you. Hold your ground, don't back down.

It's not unreasonable to try to reach some middle ground. But, if the neighbors are unreasonable, there is no middle ground. And if that's the case, then I would suggest telling your parents 1) what you've attempted to do; and 2) that you need their help, consul, and wisdom to resolve the issue.

Under English contact law, minors can enter into contracts.

English contract law is the basis of US and Canadian contract law. Therefore, I would recommend checking if the restriction on minors applies in Canada.

If I've read the rest of the thread correctly, whether or not she can enter into contracts is sort of irrevelent, the point is, these neighbours are asking her to do something completely unreasonable and unfair. Unless she owns the house legally, can enter into contracts under canadian law AND has already signed one saying she will pay up, she is completely at liberty (I believe) to tell them to go away and leave her alone, which is what I strongly advise her to do.

Luna all the advice above is entirely useless, here is a far more simple answer. Wait until about an hour before dawn, then fire a rocket propelled grenade at the window of the master bedroom. This will ensure a clean kill of both the adult neighbours with little likelihood of witnesses and without you having to face them directly, as i am aware that knocking on the door and shooting them at pointblank range may be emotionally taxing for a civilian. :-)

Young fellow, notice the Canadian flag beside my avatar. I have been a property owner in Canada for over thirty years. Your parents NEED to deal with this not you. You have no obligation under the law. There is also nothing going to happen until some sort of suit is launched if they want to spend the money on one. If you are being threatened you can make a police complaint just to document the occurrence for later reference if necessary. Try to maintain a low profile and not let what is a minor property dispute escalate into something stupid.

Wrexasaur wrote:No offense to Clthomps, but most of his advice is entirely useless.

I can almost guarantee they have both a survey, and zoning permits. Beyond this, you are a minor, and your actions will be effectively null and void in a court hearing. Read: ENTIRELY A WASTE OF YOUR TIME.

Don't do anything, this is completely out of your control. TBH, you could end up causing problems for your parents when they get back. This stuff is almost always messy, just don't get involved. Take pictures of the damage, that is all.

The less you have anything to do with your neighbors, the better. Keep trying to get in contact with your parents, and ask them to get call a lawyer about the situation. As long as you are not provoking your neighbors, any constant requests from them, could be construed as harassment due to your age/situation.

I doubt they have both as they sound like cheep-skates that are doing all the work them selves and have no idea how to use the proper equipment (Deduced from the fact that a contractors insurance would have covered the damaged fence.)

A survey of a 1/2 acre plot cost around $500 here. If you land is larger the price goes up.

As for the building/zoning permit regulations state that it has to be posted in a highly visible area in view of the road. If you don't see one call the local zoning office and have them come out to the property. This will lend a great deal of leverage to any court case you (or your parents since people keep saying you are a minor) might have.

If you are a minor, I would not send any letters since they wont be legally binding.

Hey Luna, exact same thing happened to me just this spring here in Mississauga. I don't know if Mississauga bylaws might be different to where you live, but I'm guessing since it's still Canada, it'll be generally the same.

1) you're not obligated to pay for ANY of the cost of their fence. If they wanted to go halfsies, like we did with the neighbours on one side of us, they need to talk about it -beforehand-. after construction, it's their job to pay the contractors because they hired them.

2) The damage to your fence isn't a criminal matter, so the police are out of this. This is a civil matter. Get a contractor to assess the damage to the fence, and the cost of getting it fixed or replaced. You are then entitled to sue them for said amount.

3) If the fence is damaged beyond repair, you can sue them for the cost of removing it.

At my house, what happened was that the neighbour broke multiple planks that make up the fence, at first they suggested we go halfsies on the repairs. I was living with my parents then, and my mom wouldn't have any of it. After she held off on taking the halfsies offer and threatening legal action, the neighbour had the fence fixed on his dime.

What I suggest for you? (Get approval from your parents first though) Is too offer the neighbour a deal where you'll go halfsies on removing your fence, and rebuilding you a gate that stretches all the way out to the new fence they built. I think that's an amicable solution.

Also, fences are measured by length. The conractors charged us X dollars per metre etc.

Clthomps wrote:I doubt they have both as they sound like cheep-skates that are doing all the work them selves and have no idea how to use the proper equipment (Deduced from the fact that a contractors insurance would have covered the damaged fence.)

I don't doubt that possibility, but they would have to be quite stupid to take this kind of action, without such. It is also possible that they are simply trying to squeeze some cash out of Luna, but that in itself strikes me as odd. It really just sounds like they are being average bad neighbors, that have little to no social skills.

A survey of a 1/2 acre plot cost around $500 here. If you land is larger the price goes up.

As for the building/zoning permit regulations state that it has to be posted in a highly visible area in view of the road. If you don't see one call the local zoning office and have them come out to the property. This will lend a great deal of leverage to any court case you (or your parents since people keep saying you are a minor) might have.

Surveying is generally expensive, certainly a useful action to take, for any house. Cheaper than paying for half a fence though, I have few doubts about that.

As I said before, the neighbors would have to be pretty freaking dumb, to actually be building an entire house without the appropriate documents and such. As they are seemingly strong-arming a teenager into shelling out cash, it is possible, but very unlikely.

bsohi wrote:Also, fences are measured by length. The conractors charged us X dollars per metre etc.

Generally, and this varies by region, you should expect to pay in the region of 30-50$ a foot. That also depends on quality, but most fall squarely in the more expensive end of that price range. Fancy fences can easily double that cost. Nothing like a nice gateway, with nice trim, and an arbor above... mmmm, tasty.

That is one sexy entryway.

Regarding the survey and the property line ,
im sure the constructor MUST have them to be legally buildthing things right?

If i ask them to provide the info , its illegal for them to lie to where the line is right?
Was thinking if i should just ask them then pay for $500 @_@

They are likely required to have a survey, along with various permits that cost enormous amounts of cash. Permits can easily rack up a cool 5k dollars, you better believe the city wants that money in their pocket.

In order to get almost any permit, you're likely to need a certified contractor. As they appear (from what I gather from your posts) to be building an entire house, it is almost guaranteed they are fully licensed and permitted to do so. In the Bay area, there are a few cities that have people who actually drive around looking for any construction. Some are overzealous, but generally, they get their way no matter what.

They could lie, and it would not matter, since you are not going to have much to do with anything in the long run. If this does go to court when your parents get time to deal with it, I would be surprised if you had to do anything at all.