Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Frazzled wrote:bs. You don't need 27 COMBAT SHOTGUNS (in addition to their current inventory evidently) to protect an office. Thats what rent a cops are for and they would have no business having armed security in the first place. Thats more shotguns than a major prison and more than protect the Texas capital.

All federal offices have professional security with military grade weapons.

However, in this case, the answer lies here.

Linked Article wrote:
“The Office of Inspector General is the law enforcement arm of the U.S. Department of Education and is responsible for the detection of waste, fraud, abuse, and other criminal activity involving Federal education funds, programs, and operations. As such, OIG operates with full statutory law enforcement authority, which includes conducting search warrants, making arrests, and carrying firearms. The acquisition of these firearms is necessary to replace older and mechanically malfunctioning firearms, and in compliance with Federal procurement requirements. For more information on OIG’s law enforcement authority, please visit their Web site at : www.ed.gov/oig”

A. I never saw a social security office with it.
B. If so thats insane, absolutely insane. This country is doomed.

Frazzled wrote:A. I never saw a social security office with it.
B. If so thats insane, absolutely insane. This country is doomed.

Yeah, sorry, I meant central offices; essentially only those buildings in Washington.

Frazzled wrote:bs. You don't need 27 COMBAT SHOTGUNS (in addition to their current inventory evidently) to protect an office. Thats what rent a cops are for and they would have no business having armed security in the first place. Thats more shotguns than a major prison and more than protect the Texas capital.

I find it incredulous that the Texas State Capitol doesn't have a significant armory. It ruins my image of Texas. As for Prisons - I don't know your career you might be privy to that sort of info.

But lets step aside for a moment and look at their spokesperson's statement:

...the guns are for use by officers with the agency’s Office of Inspector General. They have full federal law enforcement authority, and the IG’s office investigates “waste, fraud, abuse, and other criminal activity involving Federal education funds, programs, and operations

Oh, wait. they're (apparently) restocking a federal enforcement agency.
But that's ok, an enforcement agency (whose validity is for another thread) shouldn't be armed. None of those other ones are.

"You can have my guns when you pry them from my pasty, soft, ink-stained hands!" - Angry Bureaucrat

Frazzled wrote:A. I never saw a social security office with it.
B. If so thats insane, absolutely insane. This country is doomed.

Chances are they are not going to have their shotguns and defense tactics in a glass display case for you to look at in a place like that...but they are there.....


and why does having shotguns in federal buildings and offices make this country doomed? The Disney Channel, Today's Youth, most of the Mass Media etc, and right and left wing extremists are why this country is doomed.

and as far as the question asked in the topic title...have you ever been to South LA, Brooklyn, Hilltop, etc? why do you think?!?

Oldgrue wrote:
But that's ok, an enforcement agency (whose validity is for another thread) shouldn't be armed. None of those other ones are.

I'm pretty sure that the FBI, being a federal law enforcement agency, has a few shotguns. I know for a fact that Homeland Security, also a federal law enforcement agency, has a few shotguns. In fact, I'm pretty sure that all federal law enforcement agencies have a few shotguns.

Commissar Molotov wrote:"You can have my guns when you pry them from my pasty, soft, ink-stained hands!" - Angry Bureaucrat

Automatically Appended Next Post:

IG_urban wrote:

Frazzled wrote:A. I never saw a social security office with it.
B. If so thats insane, absolutely insane. This country is doomed.

Chances are they are not going to have their shotguns and defense tactics in a glass display case for you to look at in a place like that...but they are there.....


and why does having shotguns in federal buildings and offices make this country doomed? The Disney Channel, Today's Youth, most of the Mass Media etc, and right and left wing extremists are why this country is doomed.

and as far as the question asked in the topic title...have you ever been to South LA, Brooklyn, Hilltop, etc? why do you think?!?

Lets restate
Department of Education. Bureaucracy that doesn't even deal directly with teachers.

Shotguns. Designed to terminate zombies, crackheads, and used car salesmen.

Frazzled wrote:
Lets restate
Department of Education. Bureaucracy that doesn't even deal directly with teachers.

But they do have to deal with politicians. If I ever meet a politician I'd love to be carrying a 'government approved' shotgun that i could blast their lying, gak-eating teeth out with.

More likely, they've got them because they can. Which I'm guessing is a reason a lot of Americans use for gun ownership.

I got it!

There going to give the guns to the bullies!

Frazzled wrote:
Lets restate
Department of Education. Bureaucracy that doesn't even deal directly with teachers.

Through the Office of the Inspector General they do indeed deal directly with teachers.

dogma wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
Lets restate
Department of Education. Bureaucracy that doesn't even deal directly with teachers.

Through the Office of the Inspector General they do indeed deal directly with teachers.

Hence the need for combat shotguns.

It's to ward off da Inspecta' Genaral:

Frazzled wrote:

Commissar Molotov wrote:"You can have my guns when you pry them from my pasty, soft, ink-stained hands!" - Angry Bureaucrat

Automatically Appended Next Post:

IG_urban wrote:

Frazzled wrote:A. I never saw a social security office with it.
B. If so thats insane, absolutely insane. This country is doomed.

Chances are they are not going to have their shotguns and defense tactics in a glass display case for you to look at in a place like that...but they are there.....


and why does having shotguns in federal buildings and offices make this country doomed? The Disney Channel, Today's Youth, most of the Mass Media etc, and right and left wing extremists are why this country is doomed.

and as far as the question asked in the topic title...have you ever been to South LA, Brooklyn, Hilltop, etc? why do you think?!?

Lets restate
Department of Education. Bureaucracy that doesn't even deal directly with teachers.

Shotguns. Designed to terminate zombies, crackheads, and used car salesmen.

ah...literal man is literal...


"In addition, the secretary brings national attention to education issues by giving speeches, writing articles for publication, addressing the media and making personal appearances in schools and other education settings." http://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/focus/whattoc.html

Federal Department Secretary in a setting where an outbreak of violence is a clear and present danger? (good movie). A 12 gauge shot gun makes an ideal lethal AND non lethal defense weapon which would be ideal for bringing into a tough South LA / Brooklyn / etc school. They can be loaded with a number of non lethal rounds that would probably be better than armed guards with loaded M4A1s as an escort.

now, in all honesty, I was making a joke as an afterthought as a commentary on the subject's title....but you didn't have to go and be a smartass.

Why does the Department of Education need combat shotguns?

Because they are better than the normal kind!

I got ninja'd. I got ninja'd real bad by Dogma.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

dogma wrote:I'm pretty sure that the FBI, being a federal law enforcement agency, has a few shotguns. I know for a fact that Homeland Security, also a federal law enforcement agency, has a few shotguns. In fact, I'm pretty sure that all federal law enforcement agencies have a few shotguns.

I am left wondering why fraud and other criminal matters relating to public education wouldn't be turned over to state and federal police, but the US has no shortage of similar oddities. Once you accept that they have their own department investigating such matters, it makes sense for them to be armed.

They should be. hence the reference to the utter stupidity/we are doomed part.

Office politics and faction fighting are endemic in all organisations, government or private.

I think it was Admiral Leahy (World War 2 Chief of Navy Staff) who said the only people he hated worse than the British were the US Army.

That's why the D of E needs combat shotguns.

Frazzled wrote:They should be. hence the reference to the utter stupidity/we are doomed part.

I dunno about that. Anything that takes the workload off the FBI/SBI and lets them focus on real issues rather than some spanker skimming cash off the top of the education board is good in my opinion.

Yes because the Department of Education is equipped to handle investigations.

I think the Department of Investigations needs to educate Frazzled not to double post.

So nice I had to say it twice? Editing.

Frazzled wrote:Yes because the Department of Education is equipped to handle investigations.

Apparently, they are in Illinois

But really, it actually makes the most sense if they have a few dedicated investigators who're extremely familiar with the material. For all we know, they have a form of "Internal Affairs" that handles these kinds of situations.

So why do they need shotguns again?

Why not? Shotguns are the most versatile weapons today. They can load non-lethals, lethals, and all kinds of wacky rounds(door breachers anyone?).

Makes the most sense to a number-cruncher.

Plus, it makes a statement to any teacher who thinks it's okay to diddle kids. Namely:
"We will beanbag round your nuts. Enjoy what you thought was a victimless crime!"

Frazzled wrote:So why do they need shotguns again?

You've never gone up against teachers, have you.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Frazzled wrote:So why do they need shotguns again?

You've never gone up against teachers, have you.

Exactly. You wouldn't use a shotgun. An elementary school teacher would eat a shotgun for breakfast.

No you don't need shotguns for "investigations." What world are you people on?

What follows investigations when you find something?

Taking action.

Kanluwen wrote:What follows investigations when you find something?

Taking action.

With shotguns? Get real. This isn't Pablo Escobar.

Sorry what federal authority do they have to make arrests again?
Since when do they arrest someone with shotguns?
Again. people get your heads out of video games.

Frazzled wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:What follows investigations when you find something?

Taking action.

With shotguns? Get real. This isn't Pablo Escobar.

Sorry what federal authority do they have to make arrests again?
Since when do they arrest someone with shotguns?
Again. people get your heads out of video games.

I don't know what kind of shotguns you're used to, but they're one of the most commonly used law enforcement tools next to pistols.
As mentioned before, non-lethal rounds loaded into combat shotguns=success. And we don't know exactly how these shotguns are going to be distributed(for all we know--they're going to be stashed for the school Resource Officers--y'know, the cops that they have on campus?--to use in a very bad situation) or what their intended use is.

sebster wrote:
I am left wondering why fraud and other criminal matters relating to public education wouldn't be turned over to state and federal police, but the US has no shortage of similar oddities. Once you accept that they have their own department investigating such matters, it makes sense for them to be armed.

Almost all the various regulatory agencies have an internal law enforcement branch. The theory being that specialization leads to greater efficiency. Moreover, since any given Office of the Inspector General will already be investigating any given instance of alleged impropriety it makes sense to allow them to move on said impropriety.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazzled wrote:
With shotguns? Get real. This isn't Pablo Escobar.

Sorry what federal authority do they have to make arrests again?

The most recent legislation was the Homeland Security Act of 2002, prior to that the majority of Inspector General agents were annually deputized by Federal Marshals.

Frazzled wrote:
Since when do they arrest someone with shotguns?
Again. people get your heads out of video games.

Wait, do you have a problem with the fact that all police cars contain either a shotgun, or assault rifle? Because the theory here is essentially the same. The shotguns are not for everyday use, they're precautionary.

Honestly, for someone who is strongly against gun control to take your position on this is ridiculous.