Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Blood angels may not be broken, but I still have a feeling that my Orks are in for rough weather for the next month.

Oh yeah, I can agree with that! But the way I see it, I will not be just making fun lists to annoy BA players wif da boyz

I dont understand how anyone could compare an ironclad to a furioso and think BA got the short end of the stick

Lets see, same attacks.. same front armor

Ironclad can get grenades for 15 pts.. wow and has move through cover (yay) oh! it can also get hunter killer missiles@!#$%

Furioso.. Can get magna grapple which is nice and reusable.. Frag launcher which is much better than a heavy flamer

Blood talons
blood talons
blood talons
blood talons

Can I say that enough? That option makes furiosos absurdly better.. WS6 = hit on 3+ and virtually always wound everything (except T6 or higher.. with FC then 7 or higher).. Did you play with 3rd ed eldar codex? Its like having a swooping hawk exarch who is S6

Ironclad holds no candle

Asherian Command wrote:Yeah every race is balanced its common fact even though people at my store won't face the truth that one race is no more powerful than the other.


The blood angels weakness is that they don't have access to stuff like iron clads and orbital bomardments, and also they are not like the space marines in special rules.


Blood Angels look cool but the are balanced like every other race.

I mostly agree with you on this. I personally think that for the most part, every race is balanced. The older codices need a revamp big time, but even still they can pull out wins. I think there are some armies that do indeed have a slight heads up on a few others, but again not so much that its WFB demons lol.

I havnt seen the codex yet, but I am curious what they have in it!

Kirasu wrote:
Blood talons
blood talons
blood talons
blood talons

Can I say that enough? That option makes furiosos absurdly better.. WS6 = hit on 3+ and virtually always wound everything (except T6 or higher.. with FC then 7 or higher).. Did you play with 3rd ed eldar codex? Its like having a swooping hawk exarch who is S6

Ironclad holds no candle

I consider blood talons to be a sidegrade at best and often a downgrade. While they really brutalize many squads, those squads are already going to be in trouble against a Dreadnought of any variety. Their main benefit is probably that it gives you a fair chance to take out a Tactical Terminator unit before the chainfist rips you up. What many advocates of blood talons don't seem to realize is that blood talons basically make you a lot better against units that you're already good against, but make up for it by leaving you hanging against others (such as other Dreadnoughts). I would rather have a Dreadnought that can fight either infantry or vehicles effectively than one that is extraordinarily effective against infantry but can't really do much against vehicles.

Ravenous D wrote:

4 attacks on the charge, with Ws6 and have access to blood talons, which for every kill you get another attack, and it keeps stacking, normally you should kill around 10, or kill 29 orks before they get to swing depending on the dice gods.

Blood Talons look ok to me too but you give up Str. 10 which instas T5 models and gives you a fighting chance against other armor.

Also, I'm not quite sure about your math. Killing 29 Orks? (Average math ahead, I'm not doing probability charts for 40k);


WS 6, 3s to hit, anything but 1s with a reroll to wound.

First swing(s)
2.64 hits
Say all wound with rerolls

Second swing(s)
1.74 hits
Say all wound with rerolls

Third swings(s)
1.14 hits
Say all wound with rerolls

Fourth swing
.75 hits
Say all wound with reroll

After that, it's pretty touch and go whether you'll get anymore hits. So a total of 6.27 dead Orks....or 40ish points provided you never roll dup ones during your wound phase. It's good but not crazy.



Ultimately though, they'll suffer from the same issues all close combat machinery suffers from (Defilers, CC Dreads, Grinders).

1. On a pen half the chart makes that unit worthless.
2. On a glance, 1/3 of the chart makes them useless.
3. Everyone is carrying melta in 5th...which excels at popping armor at close range...where your CC Dread is forced to be.

AgeOfEgos wrote:

Ravenous D wrote:

4 attacks on the charge, with Ws6 and have access to blood talons, which for every kill you get another attack, and it keeps stacking, normally you should kill around 10, or kill 29 orks before they get to swing depending on the dice gods.

Blood Talons look ok to me too but you give up Str. 10 which instas T5 models and gives you a fighting chance against other armor.

Also, I'm not quite sure about your math. Killing 29 Orks? (Average math ahead, I'm not doing probability charts for 40k);


WS 6, 3s to hit, anything but 1s with a reroll to wound.

First swing(s)
2.64 hits
Say all wound with rerolls

Second swing(s)
1.74 hits
Say all wound with rerolls

Third swings(s)
1.14 hits
Say all wound with rerolls

Fourth swing
.75 hits
Say all wound with reroll

After that, it's pretty touch and go whether you'll get anymore hits. So a total of 6.27 dead Orks....or 40ish points provided you never roll dup ones during your wound phase. It's good but not crazy.



Ultimately though, they'll suffer from the same issues all close combat machinery suffers from (Defilers, CC Dreads, Grinders).

1. On a pen half the chart makes that unit worthless.
2. On a glance, 1/3 of the chart makes them useless.
3. Everyone is carrying melta in 5th...which excels at popping armor at close range...where your CC Dread is forced to be.

29 came from a stupidly good roll we were testing at the table, 7 was the lowest we got while 10 to 14 was average and in rare cases got over 20, then the one kid got 29 which was just obscene, 4 hits with 4 kills 3 times in a row.

The BA dex is just fine..their new toys come with a points cost, which is just fine....

Can't wait to fight against it...

JEB_Stuart wrote:Alot of people are complaining about the fast element, and the FNP, which are both scary things don't get me wrong, but BA players have to PAY for all these things. their weapons and units are ALL more expensive then regular SM, so they are going to be throwing less of them on the table. I mean 30 Death Company+Jump Packs is already some 1050 pts. That is without a chaplain too! I am a firm believer that the points cost will bring a great balance to this codex.

Well thats because death company suck in this codex, just dumb expensive, assault squads are cheaper with a transport then their vanilla brothers and can take a 5 man unit with a meltagun. The codex was designed with marketing in mind to sell assault squads, dreads and preds, who normally you ever only see one. Not to mention razorbacks, it seems in both the wolves and angels the ability to make a razorback marine army is getting easier and more viable by the codex.

Back to the game part mixing obscene speed with double durabiltiy is what makes it broken, especially when you start figuring out how many shots you need to kill 5 terminators or 10 bikes with feel no pain with standard weapons, and thus is where the problem comes in especially for armies like tau which dont have a hope in hell of beating blood angels in a straight fight.

The things I think are good/undercosted in the dex are:
1)The characters arent super crazy or really all that needed in every list like most armies these days.

2) Death Company got the shaft, they are just too expensive for their own good, and can be led around by quicker units (like my wave serpents haha!)

3) The stormraven dropship is over hyped, although Im going to do more field tests on it because if it plows 24" into your lines and you blow it up the dread will barely take a stracth a majority of the time, but then again its 300+ points at that point.

I don't know I like the Idea of 3k, 31 model Army, HQ x1, Troop x2, expecialy if you get DoW Deployment

Its the feel no pain fest that will be BA that really burns my ass. I won't be able to leave home without an executioner or three

I find it funny that people can flock to the BA codex for World Eaters and possibly Death Guard due to the fnp spam...yay count as!

No... it's not broken, just good enough to make CSM and Vanilla SM drool...

Sanctjud wrote:No... it's not broken, just good enough to make CSM and Vanilla SM drool...

This.

BA are broken, just look at the cover art of the new dex.... breaks my heart...

The only thing I disagree with completely atm is dante's ability. I know he's very expensive, but IIRC before deployment he can pick an enemy character & give it -1WS -1A -1I (All of which I'm kind of ok with)
but then -1 wound. I believe that's some B.S. nothing else I have ever heard of gives you a free wound before deployment & since it modifies that stat itself the hive tyrants leech essence won't regain it.

HQ Character or Independant Character?
I'd like to see the RAW as the Tyrant isn't an IC, but an MC

Its IC so it can only effect Primes in the nid dex basically.

Ah right, but even still I gotta say that doesn't seem fair at all.

Really? We are using the word 'fair' now?
Pfft, just don't take IC's then...well, if you have no choice, then minimize HQ and maximize the rest of your list.

Adapt or die. "Unfair/Cheese/Overpowered" are all cries of the unprepared.

Fair & balanced was a term I see thrown around quite a bit so yes. Also as to your adapt or die, I play Tau 90% of the time.
We only have 2 HQ options (Not counting bodyguard & both of which are IC). The terri-bad ethereal. Or the XV8 commander. The ability for dante to, before deployment, reduce my model by 1 ea. (WS, A, I, W) without having to do anything but be there seems a bit broken.

So?
The commander is there to shoot and suck up wounds.
Ok, he gets to suck up one less wound...whoop-di-do...the BA player paid more than a land raider on an single model that....doesn't have that many force multipliers...and IIRC has no Eternal Warrior...

As for my 'Adapt or Die' statement, it's a little more basic than that...Adapt (ie change armies ) or die...(stick with Tau).
I'm sure you have your fair share of victories...so it's not all bad and is fair as it gets.

If you tell me you lose 100% of the time, then we have something going .

Shas'O Dorian wrote:The only thing I disagree with completely atm is dante's ability. I know he's very expensive, but IIRC before deployment he can pick an enemy character & give it -1WS -1A -1I (All of which I'm kind of ok with)
but then -1 wound. I believe that's some B.S. nothing else I have ever heard of gives you a free wound before deployment & since it modifies that stat itself the hive tyrants leech essence won't regain it.

Erm, wouldn't that instakill the GK brothercaptain before the game has even started?

Prob. has a rule that says "to a minimum of one" or something like that.
If not, then RAW, yes, and many grounds for a FAQ/Errata...

/Shrug, don't use BrotherCaptains ... GKGM is where it's at.

Yea it does say to a min of 1. Also I get my friend telling me to change armies all the time . I just can't they were my first army & I still do decently came in 7th out of 31 in a local tournament. (Well 9th but that was because some bogus sportsmanship score brought me down 2 slots as there was a 3 way tie for 7th)

This isn't a fluff thread butttt, why FNP on everything? Give it to the DC, fine. But everyone?

How is it BA have the same attributes as Plague Marines who are essentially the undead; bodies thousands of years old being kept alive by the power of Father Nurgle, a satanic demi-god that worships bloat, plague, and pestilence, and infuses such attributes into his followers? They get FNP as well as...marines that want to hurt others really bad. How does that add up?

It doesn't. It's GW's latest form of logic...

KingDeath wrote:

Shas'O Dorian wrote:The only thing I disagree with completely atm is dante's ability. I know he's very expensive, but IIRC before deployment he can pick an enemy character & give it -1WS -1A -1I (All of which I'm kind of ok with)
but then -1 wound. I believe that's some B.S. nothing else I have ever heard of gives you a free wound before deployment & since it modifies that stat itself the hive tyrants leech essence won't regain it.

Erm, wouldn't that instakill the GK brothercaptain before the game has even started?

Its okay grey knights have a lot more to worry about than that anyway..

Kirasu wrote:

KingDeath wrote:

Shas'O Dorian wrote:The only thing I disagree with completely atm is dante's ability. I know he's very expensive, but IIRC before deployment he can pick an enemy character & give it -1WS -1A -1I (All of which I'm kind of ok with)
but then -1 wound. I believe that's some B.S. nothing else I have ever heard of gives you a free wound before deployment & since it modifies that stat itself the hive tyrants leech essence won't regain it.

Erm, wouldn't that instakill the GK brothercaptain before the game has even started?

Its okay grey knights have a lot more to worry about than that anyway..

But having a cheap HQ choice which could be hid in a retinue wasn't one of those things, well, until now if that rule really works in such a way.
It's time that they get a new dex

Ravenous D wrote:

29 came from a stupidly good roll we were testing at the table, 7 was the lowest we got while 10 to 14 was average and in rare cases got over 20, then the one kid got 29 which was just obscene, 4 hits with 4 kills 3 times in a row.

4 hits with 4 kills 3 times in a row is 12 dead Orks, not 29. For 29 kills you would need to essentially get 4 hits and 4 kills 7/8 times in a row. I believe the rough chances of that happening are around 3ish%. It will likely will be around 6/7 dead.

As I said though, a couple of pens and close combat armor usually becomes worthless. Immob is essentially a wreck/destroyed until they get around to finishing it off (If KP absolutely dictate they do).

Ravenous D wrote:Back to the game part mixing obscene speed with double durabiltiy is what makes it broken, especially when you start figuring out how many shots you need to kill 5 terminators or 10 bikes with feel no pain with standard weapons, and thus is where the problem comes in especially for armies like tau which dont have a hope in hell of beating blood angels in a straight fight.

If you're relying on using small arms to kill FNP terminators then you're doing it wrong. They're a really expensive assault unit so you blow up their transport, figure out if you've got the big guns capable of taking them out, and if you don't get out of their way or give up an expendable unit.

Meanwhile you set about taking out the rest of his list. Expensive assault units are rarely that useful, unless the other player gets that deer in the headlights look and start firing everything at them.