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So last night got a nice long look at the codex, and I found it to be a great codex. There is quite a bit of variety, lots of entertaining options, and just some plain ol' nastiness. Some characters are awesome, some were downgraded. Overall I think that it is a fairly balanced book, determined by the fact that you have to PAY for any special thing you might be able to think of. Our local BA player set up two lists against the same Nid player and was stomped both times. I chalk that up to codex inexperience, and think that when people get a feel for it and start figuring out its kinks it will be a very long-lasting codex. So yeah, overall impression: I love it, and I think it is a great addition to 40K. Thoughts? Disagreements? Comments? Concerns?

There's always cries of any given codex being seriously broken before it is released. This time around was no different. I've seen a few things in the codex that are pretty cool, and a few things that are absolutely stupid. Once I play against it a few times I'll give my final judgment.

Stupid stuff? Yes. Absolutely Broken? Hell no.

I don't dislike it because it is the cheesiest thing since WHFB deamons, but because it has quite a few things that the SM codex SHOULD have, including but not limited to +5 points for TH/SS terminators, LR's as dedicated transports, Dreads in HS and vendreads/ironclads in elites, Reclusiarchs, and if I'm not asking too much, the stormraven gunship.

I don't think the codex is broken, infact, I feel happy for all the hard-core BA players who suffered through the PDF days, and even happier to see that if they can @$$-pull so many BA BA units, I would love to see what they can do with BT, DA and IH. And Grey Knights

I thought the Codex wasn't going to be out until April?

Yeah every race is balanced its common fact even though people at my store won't face the truth that one race is no more powerful than the other.


The blood angels weakness is that they don't have access to stuff like iron clads and orbital bomardments, and also they are not like the space marines in special rules.


Blood Angels look cool but the are balanced like every other race.

InfernalMajesty wrote:I thought the Codex wasn't going to be out until April?

yeah, it shouldnt be out until next month should it?

What...Wait acalm discusion about the BA with out sceams of broken, where were you when the Space Puppies came out?

BTW: I like what I have seen so far and cant wait to own the Dex

stupid and broken.

Your not a space marine player.
They aren't stupid and broken only chaos is.

It isn't out until next April, but my FLGS got a copy of it early and we eagerly poured over it. Sorry, I should have clarified that in the beginning, it really is the GW codex...

I think pretty much all the 40k codexs are overall quite balanced. While fluff wise I think some things about the Blood Angels is stupid (Like blood for everything). But I do think rule wise they are fine are seeming balanced.

sniperjolly wrote:I don't dislike it because it is the cheesiest thing since WHFB deamons, but because it has quite a few things that the SM codex SHOULD have, including but not limited to +5 points for TH/SS terminators, LR's as dedicated transports, Dreads in HS and vendreads/ironclads in elites, Reclusiarchs, and if I'm not asking too much, the stormraven gunship.

I don't think the codex is broken, infact, I feel happy for all the hard-core BA players who suffered through the PDF days, and even happier to see that if they can @$$-pull so many BA BA units, I would love to see what they can do with BT, DA and IH. And Grey Knights

My EXACT thoughts.

The only REALLY strong thing about them is going to be the massed AV13.

Just played a game with them today. 1000 point game. Only weird thing I found was the lack of Landradiers as Heavy Support, they are dedicated transports that anyone can take. My sterngaurd rode around in one. Other than that, everything has an upside and a downside. Rather even in my opinion.

Overall it's pretty strong. My beef with the codex is that it has things that shouldn't exist like deep-striking land raiders and jump infantry dreadnoughts and dreadnought transports that they can assault out of and dreadnoughts with psychic powers. Also, cheap dreads that can wipe out an entire unit in one turn with those dual blood claws (wounds generating more attacks ad infinitum is a little silly), and furioso dreads are AV 13, basically better than ironclads in just about every way.

Hm, I see Ironclads as basically objectively better than standard Furiosos-- they have higher side armor, better weapons, and slot flexibility with a Master of the Forge, all for essentially equivalent costs. The Furioso Librarian is more of a worry, but has the cost to match.

Fetterkey wrote:Hm, I see Ironclads as basically objectively better than standard Furiosos-- they have higher side armor, better weapons, and slot flexibility with a Master of the Forge, all for essentially equivalent costs. The Furioso Librarian is more of a worry, but has the cost to match.

How many attacks do Furiosos get? I find that Ironclads simply don't have the number of attacks to really be effective against anything other than slow moving vehicles or other walkers. So the crazy claws seem to be an advantage to me. The AV12 sides are less of an issue. How often do you find your opponent in that tiny side arc?

Asherian Command wrote:Yeah every race is balanced its common fact even though people at my store won't face the truth that one race is no more powerful than the other.

I wouldn't go this far. Can every race/army defeat every other race/army ? Yes. Is every army perfectly balanced in comparison to every other? No, because it is very near impossible to balance things against one another. There are so many different combinations of equipment, squad makeup, unit selections, etc that you could never balance every army in every situation. There are absolutely older codex races out there that have to work harder and be smarter to keep their win ratio the same as some of the newer codexes(not really including my own csm in that, leaning more toward necrons/DE/inq+DH).

Gornall wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:Hm, I see Ironclads as basically objectively better than standard Furiosos-- they have higher side armor, better weapons, and slot flexibility with a Master of the Forge, all for essentially equivalent costs. The Furioso Librarian is more of a worry, but has the cost to match.

How many attacks do Furiosos get? I find that Ironclads simply don't have the number of attacks to really be effective against anything other than slow moving vehicles or other walkers. So the crazy claws seem to be an advantage to me. The AV12 sides are less of an issue. How often do you find your opponent in that tiny side arc?

I would describe the "crazy claws" as a sidegrade at best, and often a downgrade. Dreadnoughts already own normal squads, doing so in 2 rounds of combat is better than doing so in 1 round, and going down to strength 6 hurts your chances against many opponents, primarily vehicles. It also means any other Dreadnought is going to kick your ass-- if you're super lucky, you might get a draw, but you're sure not going to destroy them anytime soon. AV 12 sides are a significant issue when dealing with fast opponents. Against primarily static foes, they aren't that important, but Land Speeders, Vendettas, Eldar vehicles, and the like will be able to take advantage of them. The lighter side armor also means that plasma guns and autocannons have a chance to take you out.

I'm not certain, but I believe that Furiosos also don't have access to hunter-killer missiles.

Blood Angels broken? No.

It hear it's the upcoming Dark Eldar and Necron Codices that are totally broken!!! And the ones after them are even more broken!!!!!!



Actually, while I wouldn't call Blood Angels 'broken', there's a level of Codex Creep inbuilt to current Codices. Each one has some slightly more crazy things than the previous one that are either no brainers or just plain silly, or even both (Vendettas, Tervigons and Deep Striking Land Raiders spring to mind). But that's par for the course. Get used to it. Just accept the ultra-silly nonsense rules for whatever GW writes next, and just enjoy the models.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Just accept the ultra-silly nonsense rules for whatever GW writes next, and just enjoy the models.

Try telling that to us Beastmen players .

JEB_Stuart wrote:It isn't out until next April, but my FLGS got a copy of it early and we eagerly poured over it. Sorry, I should have clarified that in the beginning, it really is the GW codex...

Thumbs up to you.

Little lord Fauntleroy wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Just accept the ultra-silly nonsense rules for whatever GW writes next, and just enjoy the models.

Try telling that to us Beastmen players .

yeah, worst models for a very long time in that release...

On Topic: cant wait to see how BA work out, cant wait for some more variety (even if it is more MEQ variety)

Still eagerly awaiting plastic GK's

I personally find alot of the army broken, which may just be synonymous with simple these days.

Its strengths are brutal assaults, its exceptional speed and its dumb ability to give everything FNP.

Its weakness is... well hell, the two tactics against them are: 1) shoot them before they get to you, which there speed makes a joke out of, and 2) fight them better in combat, which some armies like tau just will never be able to do.

The reasons I think its broken is the complete no brainer access to feel no pain which automatically makes a unit twice as tough against small arms fire. The other day we tested an army with 10 TH/SS termies with a priest and the thing doesnt die especially when you need 120wounds with standard attacks to kill it. Just recently I saw a tactic that you keep bikes in front of your assault squads to give them a cover save while the priests in the assault squads will be close enough to give the bikes FNP.

Gornall wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:Hm, I see Ironclads as basically objectively better than standard Furiosos-- they have higher side armor, better weapons, and slot flexibility with a Master of the Forge, all for essentially equivalent costs. The Furioso Librarian is more of a worry, but has the cost to match.

How many attacks do Furiosos get? I find that Ironclads simply don't have the number of attacks to really be effective against anything other than slow moving vehicles or other walkers. So the crazy claws seem to be an advantage to me. The AV12 sides are less of an issue. How often do you find your opponent in that tiny side arc?

4 attacks on the charge, with Ws6 and have access to blood talons, which for every kill you get another attack, and it keeps stacking, normally you should kill around 10, or kill 29 orks before they get to swing depending on the dice gods.

The real bastard one in the dex is putting a death company dread in a storm raven giving it and its Ws5 5 attacks with blood talons a 24 to 29" threat range because of fleet and its massive base size.

I think this is going to work out like the past 3 'dex releases I've seen in my short time on Dakka:

'Dex comes out, all the material hypes up all the strengths and cool stuff (because if they didn't no-one would bother buying the new kits etc) ->

People focus on these and build cheesy/unfluffy/WAAC lists ->
---Broken Phase---
Because all we see are the good points and cheese, we complain it's broken->
Once the new dex gets some serious time in use, all the power-gamers get bored/are ignored and the complain begins to ebb
---/Broken Phase---
Now that the weaknesses in the dex are as apparent as the strengths, and in most meta's tactics and lists are developed to combat the cheese lists the dex is percieved less as broken ->

Eventually talk of broken dex is negligable, now that the 'hype' over all the fun stuff has died down.

I can't wait for the Necron codex so when people cry out that we are broken I can smugly say 'ITS ABOUT DAMN TIME!'

FNP and Furious Charge on entire army is what makes me most nervous.

Deep striking LR crusaders is also a concern.

JEB_Stuart wrote:Our local BA player set up two lists against the same Nid player and was stomped both times. I chalk that up to codex inexperience

Funny, my mate instantly made one list, played our local Tyranid player with a Mawloc, Swarmlord, 2x Carnifex and much more, yet he battered him, I suppose it was down to 3 Librarian Dreadnoughts mainly!

Alot of people are complaining about the fast element, and the FNP, which are both scary things don't get me wrong, but BA players have to PAY for all these things. their weapons and units are ALL more expensive then regular SM, so they are going to be throwing less of them on the table. I mean 30 Death Company+Jump Packs is already some 1050 pts. That is without a chaplain too! I am a firm believer that the points cost will bring a great balance to this codex.

JEB_Stuart wrote:Alot of people are complaining about the fast element, and the FNP, which are both scary things don't get me wrong, but BA players have to PAY for all these things. their weapons and units are ALL more expensive then regular SM, so they are going to be throwing less of them on the table. I mean 30 Death Company+Jump Packs is already some 1050 pts. That is without a chaplain too! I am a firm believer that the points cost will bring a great balance to this codex.