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Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Of course, the irony here is that whilst being based on Football Hooligans and Cockney spankers, rather than Ebonics, they very Football Hooligans and Cockney spankers have now adopted Ebonics. Well, some of them, with that ridiculous 'Urban' accent.

Tossers the lot of them. Yes, especially you, N-Dubz, you bad joke you!

init blud

And now....YOU DIE! DIE IN THE FACE! With a proper old school Cock-er-nee Gangland stabbing. None of this modern driveby tosh!

Anti-Mag wrote:
The absolute nadir of being involved in Games Workshop is to deploy your Orks to the sound of a store manager hollering at you ''in character''.

What's wrong with that? Whenever we bring up Orks in the FLGS, we all put on our Orky voices.

Anti-Mag wrote:or that Frazzled spends all day listening to Garth Brooks.

Frazzled? Garth Brooks?? I highly doubt he listens to music that modern. He probably listened to people banging sticks and dinosaur bones together and danced the "foxtrot" in front of stonehenge, in his day.

Albatross wrote:

Hordini wrote:

Albatross wrote:I think it says more about you than it does about GW.

They are not making fun out of anyone.

Actually, I thought GW had all but admitted that Orks were basically a jab at crazy soccer hooligans, etc.?

I'm certainly not ready to claim that they aren't making fun of anyone. They're making fun of someone, the question here is, who? They aren't poking fun at Ebonics though, that's for sure. Just keep in mind that GW is a UK-based company.


Also, Albatross. I have to say, your post is pretty damn cruel.

Cruel? How? I think it's a fair point - Orks are represented as stupid and brutal savages, this is represented in their language (according to GW fluff) as an unsophisticated form of spoken english. What you read into that is entirely up to you. When I first became aware of GW orks/orcs, I didn't think 'black', 'white', 'cockney' or 'geordie' - I just thought 'stupid' and 'savage'. Like I said, they aren't making fun of anyone in particular, just the stupid and violent, whatever form they may take.

Good job no-one overreacted though, that was a close one!

I was talking about him opening up and discussing a misconception that he had when he was younger, and you turn it around and say "I think it says more about you," which to me seems like some sort of smug implication that he's some sort of prejudiced or racist person because he misinterpreted an alien race in a sci-fi/fantasy game. And I think we've already established that yes, GW are poking fun at people. Who they're poking fun at is up for a bit of debate (it's not people of African descent though, we know that much)....but it's not just a stereotype of any form of "stupid and violent." Orks are a bit deeper than that, I think.

Perception is often informed by ones prejudices and assumptions - it isn't smug to point that out. Whatever, I don't really give a gak that you're offended on his behalf.

Orks started out as a mix of Football Hooligans and Nazis. Yeah, odd combination I know, but that's what they were.

I've never heard of anyone confuse them with Ebonics. I mean, Black Orcs, sure, but how could you not know that they were English, or that GW was English, for 10 years!

H.B.M.C. wrote:Orks started out as a mix of Football Hooligans and Nazis. Yeah, odd combination I know, but that's what they were.

I've never heard of anyone confuse them with Ebonics. I mean, Black Orcs, sure, but how could you not know that they were English, or that GW was English, for 10 years!

Hmmm, The football stuff yes but I disagree on the Nazi bit slightly.

Allot of the stuff was in the style of early/mid 80's bikers, as was allot of stuff GW was doing when 40k was released. If you can dig out a picture of John Blanche from the time he looks like hes dressed as an Ork most of the time. Think the biker gang from "Any which way but Loose"!

Back on topic, I have quite often found that Americans define themselves or at least identify allot more along lines of race/creed so the OPs original premise is not a suprise.

As for Mad Doc's racist diatribe against Cockneys, then you sir should bugger of back the other side of Hadrians Wall you skirt wearing Berk.

Yours Sincerely,

Offended of East London

Chim chim cherroo Mary Bleedin' Poppins! I was only 'avin a Giraffe! Gaw blimey lav a dack, keep your syrup on me old China!

Maybe it's because oi'm a Lahndahnaaa! That oi am sach a cant 'ava banarnar!

Hmmm, my MP is going to here about this!

Damn immygrunts!

Good grief.

I didn't know I would have to attach a disclaimer longer than my actual original thought to pre-defend myself from all the bloody haters.

I didn't know when I was 15... for a while... like maybe a year.

But I'd say I'm validated when that other american dakkite (who is black) confirmed he felt the same way... and that he thought it was cool.

"Perception is often informed by ones prejudices and assumptions - it isn't smug to point that out. Whatever, I don't really give a gak that you're offended on his behalf." Seriously? What's with the pissy pants?

What was it that Thumper always said? "If you can't say something nice, don't say nothing at all."

Thumper didn't use internet forums!

I wasn't having a massive go at you or anything - I don't think I said anything THAT bad, did I? I'm not saying you're an awful skinhead racist lunatic NOW - just that perhaps you might have been a little prejudiced when you were a kid. No big deal.
You said you didn't want to get into it with me, so I left it there - then people start jumping in and getting all offended on your behalf! That was the only thing I took issue with.
No hard feelings on my side, pal.

Observing that mannerisms or traits are frequently associated with a certain group by others doesn't necessarily mean that the observer thinks they're deserving of that association.

Orkeosaurus wrote:Observing that mannerisms or traits are frequently associated with a certain group by others doesn't necessarily mean that the observer thinks they're deserving of that association.

Well, my point was that every person (including me) brings their own prejudices to any analysis - you can't analyse anything without changing it's meaning. It's meaning to you, at any rate...
If a person thinks Orks sound 'Black', perhaps it's worth exploring why one would think that.

Albatross wrote:I think it says more about you than it does about GW.

They are not making fun out of anyone.

Except for us hobbiests(sp)

If a person thinks Orks sound 'Black', perhaps it's worth exploring why one would think that.

Ok. I could see why you'd say that.

I'm gonna say its because I live in Mississippi. Some of my black friends talk, at times, in a way that could, with little stretching of the imagination, be perceived as a version of what's written as Ork's language. But having said that, my white friends have a seperate accent that is very distinct that could easily be made fun of, but that would be less Orkish.

Go on youtube and look up Jeff Foxworthy. He has a skit where it talks about words that only southerners understand. Its making fun of the southern dialect. I'm not offended by the truth.

notprop wrote:Hmmm, The football stuff yes but I disagree on the Nazi bit slightly.

They wore German WWII helmets and threw potato-masher Style grenades (and still do!).

Not all of them mind you, and Orks have always been an amalgam of different styles, but the Blood Axes started off as Soccer Hooligan Nazi Orks

Dat cus we're da best orks arand mate...
[url=http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/52872-Blood%20Axe%2C%20Orks%2C%20Warboss.html]

Albatross wrote:Thumper didn't use internet forums!

I wasn't having a massive go at you or anything - I don't think I said anything THAT bad, did I? I'm not saying you're an awful skinhead racist lunatic NOW - just that perhaps you might have been a little prejudiced when you were a kid. No big deal.
You said you didn't want to get into it with me, so I left it there - then people start jumping in and getting all offended on your behalf! That was the only thing I took issue with.
No hard feelings on my side, pal.

It looks like I perceived your post to be a bit harsher than you intended. I apologize for that. I guess I have become somewhat biased in that sense, because in the ultra-PC university world I have been living in for the past few years, when someone makes comments like that, it's almost always with the loosely-veiled implication that the person in question is some kind of racist lunatic. Thanks for the reality check...seriously.