Whats after healthcare?

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**Fateweaver**

Commissar Molotov wrote:If you actually think that President Obama passed the healthcare bill...

Wow. And you own guns, too? Scary.

By the way - it's freaking hilarious that you're only now calling reconciliation "illegal." It's been used PLENTY in the last 20 years - most often by the Republicans:

http://www.slate.com/id/2245772/

He signed it into law. That's basically the same damn thing. Vetoing it means he didn't like it and agree with it but we knew that wasn't going to happen as he pushed for the damn thing.

**Frazzled**

Commissar Molotov wrote:
Fateweaver wrote:

I didn't lose rights gorgon. Had the government wanted to tap my phones they would have only heard the occasion confirmation of work, planned dates with my female friends and the occasional phone sex talk.

If the government wants to listen to me talk about whats for dinner, fine by me so long as they leave my 2nd Amendment rights alone (which Dubya did).

Just because you don't give a flying **** about your Fourth Amendment rights doesn't mean you didn't lose them, Fateweaver.

...Warrantless wiretapping of US citizens is a clear violation of US law. In fact, the reason that the law (FISA) is there is because the government was badly abusing their powers in the not-so-distant past:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

he didn't lose them, unless a terrorist called him. Sorry but there's no right violation unless you are worried about getting a call from a terrorist of course. Are you worried about that?

. Meanwhile they are talking about tracking cellphones in airports etc etc.

**Fateweaver**

I could only be so lucky to have a terrorist call me. I wouldn't understand a word he said but I'd probably get the gist of it with all the angry sounding words with the occasional "filthy American" thrown in in perfect English.

**Frazzled**

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/26/cbos-2020-vision-debt-will-rise-to-90-of-gdp/

**Fateweaver**

Fateweaver wrote:
Commissar Molotov wrote:If you actually think that President Obama passed the healthcare bill...

Wow. And you own guns, too? Scary.

By the way - it's freaking hilarious that you're only now calling reconciliation "illegal." It's been used PLENTY in the last 20 years - most often by the Republicans:

http://www.slate.com/id/2245772/

He signed it into law. That's basically the same damn thing. Vetoing it means he didn't like it and agree with it but we knew that wasn't going to happen as he pushed for the damn thing.

Legal or not it is the worst thing that could happen to this country right now. I get to pay a higher premium (because we all know how government run projects are cheap. I'm still waiting on cars from Government Motors to drop in price) just so that someone I could give a rats ass about can get insurance. All the people I know and care about and love have insurance through private insurers and can afford it easily. So me having to buy insurance will not affect those people I know and care about. If my meth-head neighbor across the street wants cheaper healthcare because of his addiction than make him pay the same or more as me (gak, don't let him have it I say; society would be better off with him dead) but don't FORCE me to buy it so that he can save money to spend on more meth.

Plus the other stipulations are dumb as hell too. Single man with no kids has to buy pediatric care at an extra cost? Women who can't possibly ever have kids needing to buy maternity coverage?

Again, what is sane or even logical about those 2 things?

Those people who are in love with B.O and this Bill love to use the phrase "it is our right to live healthy and be healthy" but will spit on those people who proclaim "it is our right to own and bear arms".

Espouse your love for this 2700 page pile of fail. Legal or not it's going to do more harm than good. Not to mention had Bush tried to pass this roles would be reversed. Liberals would be protesting it as much as Conservatives. Isn't it ironic? A little too ironic, don't you think?

**Commissar Molotov**

Frazzled wrote:
he didn't lose them, unless a terrorist called him. Sorry but there's no right violation unless you are worried about getting a call from a terrorist of course. Are you worried about that? . Meanwhile they are talking about tracking cellphones in airports etc etc.

Frazz, have you been drinking in the middle of the day? The Bush administration was listening in to US citizens' telecommunications WITHOUT OBTAINING A WARRANT, as they are required to do under FISA and US criminal law. If the US citizen's communication was supposedly with a foreign entity or agent, then they have to get a warrant under FISA. If it was not, then they have to get a warrant in the usual way. Either way, they need a warrant, PERIOD.

Oversight - it's all about oversight. So we really have absolutely no idea whether anyone was listening in on Fateweaver's phone calls or not, because they were ILLEGALLY monitoring US citizens' communications WITHOUT ANY OVERSIGHT.

**Fateweaver**

Frazzled wrote:http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/26/cbos-2020-vision-debt-will-rise-to-90-of-gdp/

Yes but Frazz. Just think of the meth heads and crack moms who can now get health care so that when they OD and have to go to the ER they won't have to pay as much for help/recovery PLUS they get the added benefit of reduced cost for rehab.

THINK OF THE METH HEADS AND CRACK MOMS FRAZZ!!!!!!!!!!! THINK OF THEM!

**Frazzled**

Commissar Molotov wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
he didn't lose them, unless a terrorist called him. Sorry but there's no right violation unless you are worried about getting a call from a terrorist of course. Are you worried about that? . Meanwhile they are talking about tracking cellphones in airports etc etc.

Frazz, have you been drinking in the middle of the day? The Bush administration was listening in to US citizens' telecommunications WITHOUT OBTAINING A WARRANT, as they are required to do under FISA and US criminal law. If the US citizen's communication was supposedly with a foreign entity or agent, then they have to get a warrant under FISA. If it was not, then they have to get a warrant in the usual way. Either way, they need a warrant, PERIOD.

Oversight - it's all about oversight. So we really have absolutely no idea whether anyone was listening in on Fateweaver's phone calls or not, because they were ILLEGALLY monitoring US citizens' communications WITHOUT ANY OVERSIGHT.

Yes but again only to the ones with that terrorist connection thing.
Frankly I want the government to have a record of every phone conversation anywhere on the globe with a GPS link. That way we could use computer algorhythms to build reasonable suspicion if within the the US, otherwise a link netwrok outside the US. We could then literally phone in the JDAM.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Frazz, have you been drinking in the middle of the day?

Well, actually....

The Bush administration was listening in to US citizens' telecommunications WITHOUT OBTAINING A WARRANT, as they are required to do under FISA and US criminal law. If the US citizen's communication was supposedly with a foreign entity or agent, then they have to get a warrant under FISA. If it was not, then they have to get a warrant in the usual way. Either way, they need a warrant, PERIOD.

Oversight - it's all about oversight. So we really have absolutely no idea whether anyone was listening in on Fateweaver's phone calls or not, because they were ILLEGALLY monitoring US citizens' communications WITHOUT ANY OVERSIGHT.

I should also note, if you are a US citizen you have the right to protection against unreasonable search and siezure-not the search but the fruits of that search. You have no right against that gathering of information, only it being used against you without a validly obtained and executed warrant.

**Fateweaver**

You got's it wrong. US citizens with terrorist ties is all made up by conservative media.

Like the dude who shot up the base after yelling "Allah Ahkbar" (sp) is not a civilian with terrorist ties. He was just shouting that to be "different". He thought "Die, military scum" was too boring.

If the government suspects I'm talking to terrorists let them tap my phone. They'll be in for a shock when all I talk about is pizza delivery, sex and what nights I'm playing 40k.

**Gitzbitah**

Fateweaver wrote:You got's it wrong. US citizens with terrorist ties is all made up by conservative media.

Like the dude who shot up the base after yelling "Allah Ahkbar (sp) is not a civilian with terrorist ties. He was just shouting that to be "different". He thought "Die, military scum" was too "American".

Its a trap!

**Anshal**

Hard to say as a non American, Although I am grateful for living in Norway even if our politicians resembles Bush more and more as the days passes. But perhaps something about immigration as people has mentioned in this tred befor?

**pombe**

The problem is that if the Democrats don't try to settle immigration, a certain segment of the population will stay at home this November because they will feel that they have been let down. However, by not dealing with immigration, the Democrats can avoid pissing off a lot of other Americans. So, in a way, the Dems lose either way with this issue and don't really stand to gain by taking up the issue.

Politics aside, however, this is an issue that will need to be eventually addressed, as illegal immigrants cost the taxpayers billions every year (regardless of whatever they say they contribute: the numbers always point to them using the system much more (unpaid taxes, emergency room visits, etc.) than they contribute to it (by working low wage jobs).

I don't want to get into an immigration debate here, but I do feel that granting citizenship/residency/whatever to the illegal immigrants already existing in this country is grossly unfair to the people who have been waiting patiently to earn their right to live in this country through the legitimate channels.

**ShumaGorath**

I thought banking industry and market reform were next, along with education reform.

**Fateweaver**

Hopefully banking won't be reformed like Healthcare or we'll end up being 100% owned by China.

**ShumaGorath**

Fateweaver wrote:Hopefully banking won't be reformed like Healthcare or we'll end up being 100% owned by China.

Do you ever have anything insightful to say? Or do you just copy paste glenn beck newsletters?

**Dreadwinter**

With the way Education is going right now, lets hope he steps up and fixes that crap. Otherwise his whole long term plan to save the US is going to go to crap in the long term with gakky teaching.

My second guess is he legalizes Prostitution. One can only hope.....

**Albatross**

sebster wrote:It's no longer possible for insurance companies to deny coverage to someone with a pre-existing condition. This means that people can wait until they're diagnosed with something serious and then get treatment, which is a big problem when you need healthy people buying insurance to pay for the sick ones. So, unfortunately, it means requiring people to get insurance.

How else can it be done?

Well for me, the closest thing to an 'ideal' system would be to have a public option similar to our National Insurance, but that includes the provision of the possibility to 'opt out' in order to secure private health insurance/pension plan etc. Kind of a hybrid, really.

**gorgon**

Financial services reform would be perfect for the Dems. Beating up the bankers is something a lot of Americans would get behind, whether that's fair or not.

Although call me a skeptic about whether the government will be able to truly change that industry beyond more forms and hoops to jump through. Someday I will have more to share on this topic, but not now.

Anyway, that's something that I think Dem candidates can tout in November, even if it's not particularly effective legislation. As others have mentioned, immigration is a minefield. I dunno that I'd touch that after all the carnage that healthcare created.

**Fateweaver**

ShumaGorath wrote:
Fateweaver wrote:Hopefully banking won't be reformed like Healthcare or we'll end up being 100% owned by China.

Do you ever have anything insightful to say? Or do you just copy paste glenn beck newsletters?

Can you ever post without attacking someone?

HOW is it you are still able to post on Dakka?

Not every conservative is a fan of Glenn Beck and FYI I've never read or watched any of his commentary.

We want to get personal than I'd say the way you defend the big O's decisions must mean you are blowing his horn (get my drift).

**Dreadwinter**

Fateweaver wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:
Fateweaver wrote:Hopefully banking won't be reformed like Healthcare or we'll end up being 100% owned by China.

Do you ever have anything insightful to say? Or do you just copy paste glenn beck newsletters?

Can you ever post without attacking someone?

HOW is it you are still able to post on Dakka?

Not every conservative is a fan of Glenn Beck and FYI I've never read or watched any of his commentary.

We want to get personal than I'd say the way you defend the big O's decisions must mean you are blowing his horn (get my drift).

Woah there buddy, woah. Lets step back a second here, eat a snickers bar, smell a flower. (Not a Dandelion)

Be cool man, be cool.....

**Fateweaver**

Dreadwinter wrote:
Fateweaver wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:
Fateweaver wrote:Hopefully banking won't be reformed like Healthcare or we'll end up being 100% owned by China.

Do you ever have anything insightful to say? Or do you just copy paste glenn beck newsletters?

Can you ever post without attacking someone?

HOW is it you are still able to post on Dakka?

Not every conservative is a fan of Glenn Beck and FYI I've never read or watched any of his commentary.

We want to get personal than I'd say the way you defend the big O's decisions must mean you are blowing his horn (get my drift).

Woah there buddy, woah. Lets step back a second here, eat a snickers bar, smell a flower. (Not a Dandelion)

Be cool man, be cool.....

What for? I get attacked I fight back. So my next ban results in a 7 (or is it 10 for the 2nd one) day vacation. I'll be back again and again until it's permanent.

Just making the point that while I don't agree with everyone I also don't attack every post of everyone I don't like.

But I digress. Apparently I'm an idiot for seeing something that is going to do more harm than good, thought up by a man who doesn't know his head from his arse and passed by an administration that thinks the best way to fight terrorists is to befriend them and make them feel welcome.

It's all good. In 2 years the Dems won't have a prayer of winning the Presidency and eventually Conservatives will win back both House AND Senate. Until then I'll suck it up.

**ShumaGorath**

Can you ever post without attacking someone?

I thought banking industry and market reform were next, along with education reform.

Hopefully banking won't be reformed like Healthcare or we'll end up being 100% owned by China.

Sure can. But back to my question. Do you ever have anything insightful to say? Your post was an attack, was unrealistic, was factually incorrect, and was effectively contentless. Sure, I didn't turn the other cheek, but its true. You don't post anything that I wouldn't expect to hear raved about on contalk radio.

HOW is it you are still able to post on Dakka?

I post insightfully often. You don't see that because a large percentage of my posts in reference to you are either implying or simply outright stating you are wrong.

Not every conservative is a fan of Glenn Beck and FYI I've never read or watched any of his commentary.

Yes, and I'm sure the moon never saw a show about spinning around giant blue things. That doesn't mean it's doing something else.

We want to get personal than I'd say the way you defend the big O's decisions must mean you are blowing his horn (get my drift).

I ask if you ever have anything insightful to say and you make fellatio jokes about me and the president.

**dogma**

gorgon wrote:Financial services reform would be perfect for the Dems. Beating up the bankers is something a lot of Americans would get behind, whether that's fair or not.

Yep, my thinking as well.

**Dreadwinter**

dogma wrote:
gorgon wrote:Financial services reform would be perfect for the Dems. Beating up the bankers is something a lot of Americans would get behind, whether that's fair or not.

Yep, my thinking as well.

You know what else everybody can get behind? Hookers.

Come on guys! Don't let my dream die!

We can make change! Real change!