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@OP

Let's see how you'll handle being shot at with a pulse rifle/shuriken cannon/mortar/bolter bolt with just a flak vest to protect you >

Henners91 wrote:@OP

Let's see how you'll handle being shot at with a pulse rifle/shuriken cannon/mortar/bolter bolt with just a flak vest to protect you >

HEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU FORGET SOMETHING!

They have the fleshy meatshield to the left and right! AND!!!! If they're lucky enough not to be on the front line they have the meatshields in front of them as well!

But those meatshields still die

That's a big casualty rate!

Well when you are armed with Barbies first flashlight, and your armor is composed of the worst part of hobo cardboard, and your opponent generally is a a green Ork who's muscles surrounding his ass are larger then half your body and the ability to just take a flash light to the face and rip apart your body along with flipping a tank. I'm pretty sure I would have a hard time to even with all that awesome equipment.

BloodDrop101X wrote:Why do the IG soliders die so easily seriously anytime you read about them in books and gak they get killed like their a cloud of flies being attacked by a kid with a can of hairspray and a lighter why is this? normal humans arnt that bad in combat

If you have a friend who happens to own an RPG-7, ask him to bring it round. Stand about 50 meters apart from one another and have him fire it at you. See what happens. Now imagine that happening several times a second.

That's why Guard die so quickly. Everything in 40K is better than them.

To be fair, the IG on well developed planets and primarily military planets are quite well trained and equipped, with training equal to your average American soldier, if not better(like for example, a Canadian one...).

Equipment wise, they're given plenty of equipment to help them survive in the field. Lasguns are in all actuallity fairly good weapons. They have as much punch as a military rifle, and have unlimited ammo, and being laser based, have impeccable accuracy.

Fafnir wrote:To be fair, the IG on well developed planets and primarily military planets are quite well trained and equipped, with training equal to your average American soldier, if not better(like for example, a Canadian one...).

Equipment wise, they're given plenty of equipment to help them survive in the field. Lasguns are in all actuallity fairly good weapons. They have as much punch as a military rifle, and have unlimited ammo, and being laser based, have impeccable accuracy.

Yea. As much as I joke I actually LOVE The Imperial Guard....they are the best of the best.but dude Las-guns don't have unlimited ammo...I don't know if you've read any guard books but they run out a lot. They are a cliped based system.

They esentially have unlimited ammo as those clips are battery packs that can be charged with either sunlight or heat. Also the main reason they get them is because they are incredibly cheap compaired to the other weapons they could get. Such as a solid amunition based weapon.

To be fair, in the fluff a lasgun on the maximum power setting can take off an Ork's arm.

Henners91 wrote:To be fair, in the fluff a lasgun on the maximum power setting can take off an Ork's arm.

Of course, on a setting like that, you'd have a limited amount of shots. I believe somewhere in their fluff, it is mentioned that the Death Korps use their lasguns at full power, but only have 25 shots per power pack.

n0t_u wrote:They esentially have unlimited ammo as those clips are battery packs that can be charged with either sunlight or heat. Also the main reason they get them is because they are incredibly cheap compaired to the other weapons they could get. Such as a solid amunition based weapon.

Well if we must "argue" then so be it......it is not unlimited. for even when they are recharged they can never get the full amount of power that the clip had when it was "fresh" clip. When ever they are "recharged" they loose some power lessening the shots.
For example. In a Gaunts Ghosts book Scout Mkoll recharged their clips by using fire but it was stated that recharging them would make them weaker.

When recharged normally, they can be recharged to full power without any loss. However, in emergancies, they can be thrown into fires, or any other high-heat source, and they'll recharge quite quickly, but it's likely the high temperatures will damage the power cells.

When using solar power or hooked up to a generator, they'll recharge normally with no setbacks.

BloodDrop101X wrote:Why do the IG soliders die so easily seriously anytime you read about them in books and gak they get killed like their a cloud of flies being attacked by a kid with a can of hairspray and a lighter why is this? normal humans arnt that bad in combat

Because IG are pretty much mass produced.
Imperium Goliath factory / transport ships would arrive to a planet to recruit / pick up the soldiers.
Between the time they get into transport and arrive on the destination they are trained ,geared on the ships.

About as useless as the storm trooper in starwars lol

To be fair, Stormtroopers in Starwars are pretty badass in any situation that doesn't involve a main character... or teddy bears...

They just happen to job more than any other mook in the history of trope-kind.

You can make space marines look like stormtroopers on steroids with the right kind of paint, but this is a digression from the topic on hand.

It would suck to run out of bullets as an IG, it would certaintly be like a situation in Bugs Bunny (No mo Buwwets). I would laugh as a sorcerous malestrom tore them to pieces.

Dialask wrote:You can make space marines look like stormtroopers on steroids with the right kind of paint, but this is a digression from the topic on hand.

It would suck to run out of bullets as an IG, it would certaintly be like a situation in Bugs Bunny (No mo Buwwets). I would laugh as a sorcerous malestrom tore them to pieces.

Thats why they give us those handy dandy pointy things we put on the end of our rifles ^.^


Okay.....I guess I loose the "argument" about the lasgun ammo.....curses.

Soladrin wrote:

dark6spectre wrote:can i just ask? what is better in the 40k universe? laser pointing torches or autoguns. i think autoguns more as semi-automatic 7.62 mil weopons, like an m1 garand. because lasers just burn a hole into you, while solid rifle rounds do have some damage besides the wound they make. if autogun, why the hell are IG still using lasguns when they do F*** all!

Las gun's have better penetration then a stubber in 40k. Easier to replenish ammo (can be recharged). And I'm guessing flak/carapace armor stops bullets better then lasers.

And because its grimdark to have crap weapons.

I've never heard grimdark used this way now I must begin to.

The reason IG suck at surviving? Because they are just that grimdark.

As the agent at Matrix says: Only human

Toughness that suck, armor that suck,BS that suck,Initiative that suck = easy death, oh yeah that and wearing only shirts in battle (i.e. catachans, hehehe)

Because, as others have stated, the average human is a weak animal compared to a 300-pound greenskin with muscles like an Arnold Schwarzenegger caricature. Or indeed, a Tyranid with swords for arms and a gun for a mouth.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mindfield wrote:As the agent at Matrix says: Only human

Toughness that suck, armor that suck,BS that suck,Initiative that suck = easy death, oh yeah that and wearing only shirts in battle (i.e. catachans, hehehe)

I dunno, if they get the same armour save Cadians do from their flak jackets, then I'd say all that muscle has to be good for something.

Hey, leave out all the Guard hate!

Guard are awesome, they die easy because they CHOOSE to.

Plus, flak armour would be the equivalent to kevlar armour, if not better. A lasgun would be the AK47 of the future.

Guard = win

End of story.

Also, Guard are mah favourite 40k force

S_P

Despite all of their handicap they fought on, and thats what attracted me to IG.
I remember when me and my gf are watching superman face off a guy firing a huge gatling gun at him pointblank, as superman approached the firing guy seemingly undisturbed thru the hail of bullets thrown at him, my gf remarked: "yeah, it's pretty easy to be brave when you know you're nigh impossible to kill!"

Nuff said

becouse theres thousends of them

Because they are the Imperium's 'cannon fodder', serving only to defend the tanks they fight alongside. I mean, which would you choose to win a war? A bunch of men, or a Tank? Guess which one I chose.

(Sorry if this comes across rudely)

Oh, and I like IG anyway, so 'cannon fodder' is nice compared to things I've heard.

someone told me things in films, (e.g Star wars) and i guess in 40k too, is to do with the numbers rule. it goes.

the more of them there are, the crapper they are at shooting and hitting something.

the less there are, the more of a challenge there is to the hero as this 1 guy is nearly hitting him and the hero cannot kill him properly *even if its for an extra five seconds*

ofcourse if both sides have high numbers, in-accuracy does not apply as someone will get hit.

this can apply to 40k. with the huge numbers of inacurate and easy to kill guys as IG, with the less dudes and harder to kill guys as SM.

I would compare it to how effective humans are in combat even here, I mean, we couldn't kill half of what we keep as pets unarmed. As a race were pretty pathetic when it comes to hand to hand combat. It doesn't surprise me that the IG have such a tough time.

Imperial guardsmen aren't equipped to be the best of the anything. They are fielded as the most cost efficient way of making use of a basically limitless resource (people). Equipping individual troops more effectively gets exponentially more expensive and energy-intensive. Space Marines represent an incredible expenditure of Imperial resources, but they're worth it, because they handle their own recruiting, munitioning (to a degree), and deployment, and the Imperium doesn't have to train them or pay them, so they're great in the long run. But when you've just conscripted a few billion soldiers and only have four factories running, you figure out what rolls off the assembly lines fastest, start passing 'em out, and prey for the Emperor to keep anyone that doesn't end up with one. The Imperium is a cruel, cruel place.

What's with the flak armor hate?
IG (5+ save) have just as good armor as the footsoldiers of the superhuman former rulers of the universe (Eldar 5+ save) and the alien hivemind from beyond the stars (Nid 5+ save). Their armor is better than the armor of a genetically engineered survivor race that outlasted the Necrons (Ork 6+ save). The Tau just barely beat them, and then all your left with is the "small" amount of super-killy 10,000 year old CSM and metal zombies of doom and the occasional Aspect Warrior, MC, daemon or mega-armored Boss.
So all in all, flak armor isn't that bad.

Poke yourself. Now imagine that squishy flesh being hit with all sorts of pointy, stabby objects, shot with rocket propelled mini grenade bullets, tore into by demonic claws and talons and finally flayed away by energy beams.

That is why imperial guard die so easy. Just regular humans getting hit with objects they weren't meant to get hit with.

Because they go into battle with nothing but a wife-beater and standard issue balls of steel

Retribution wrote:Because they go into battle with nothing but a wife-beater and standard issue balls of steel

This... is true

if guard have one thing going for them its that they have balls.

and tanks, lots of tanks