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Why would Tau get to stand shoot and no one else?
Tau should have more difficulty standing and shooting than most armies, because they have trouble tracking movement at close distances and they use heavier weapons.

If you wanted to do something specifically for the Tau, some sort of markerlight-given Overwatch system would probably be your best bet.

-speedbump units
-transports
-if needed, more mobility in next Tau Codex

Tarpits would be better than speedbumps, like IG get, we have nothing really suitable for either.

Transports do nothing to stop you being assaulted if they are deployed they get melta'd if not they toasted when they come on in nice peicemeal chunks.

I know you can castle but why is that rather boring tactic forced upon the army?

Mostly because your making the BEST shooting army able to hold its own in combat.

I'd like to point out with blob squads that THE BEST Shooting army (IG) can already hold it's own in combat, they also have tarpits like sentinels and even Ogryns (which granted are over costed).

The 2nd best shooting army has probably the best CC unit in the game in it. That is a Vulkan SM build with MC Hammernators as an (almost manditory) option.

Why so against the 3rd best shooters having anything they can throw into assault?

Pathfinders with Markerlights. There, you just made your guys better shots, but you also reduced cover, caused pinning (?), and a metric buttload of other stuff (don't have my book right now)

But MLs are expensive unreliable and quite limited in their availability. Compare and contrast with the almost gauranteed IG orders or Sisters Faith points which both have wider applications and the IG don't need to stripe cover as they have about 15 different weapons that flat out ignore it as standard.

Slarg232 wrote:
Pathfinders with Markerlights. There, you just made your guys better shots, but you also reduced cover, caused pinning (?), and a metric buttload of other stuff (don't have my book right now)

A unit of 8 pathfinders will reasonably produce 4-5 markerlights (remember you have to roll a 4+ because pathfinders are BS3). You use three to remove a cover save and 1 to increase the BS of 1 unit all of that dice rolling and work to make one firewarrior squad capable of killing 1 or 2 marines or 3 or 4 IG at range.

Meanwhile, marines start out BS4 and with vulkan they are even deadlier with certain weapons.

Guard have leadership based orders (a heck of a lot better than 50% chance here). Sure they have shorter range but with the massive amount of firepower they can throw at opponents, quantity over quality will win out in this instance....and cost less pointswise to produce.

Again, I really don't get why people are so averse to making Tau more survivable. Why all the Tau hate? Every other army has close combat units and/or is shootier than Tau currently are.

Orkeosaurus wrote:Why would Tau get to stand shoot and no one else?
Tau should have more difficulty standing and shooting than most armies, because they have trouble tracking movement at close distances and they use heavier weapons.

If you wanted to do something specifically for the Tau, some sort of markerlight-given Overwatch system would probably be your best bet.

I'd rather see Pulse Carbines given some sort of "stand and shoot" method to them. Would make for an interesting role for Fire Warrior teams in DFs with Carbines to act as "charge blockers" and give the two weapons two very different roles.

FlingitNow wrote:

-speedbump units
-transports
-if needed, more mobility in next Tau Codex

Tarpits would be better than speedbumps, like IG get, we have nothing really suitable for either.

Transports do nothing to stop you being assaulted if they are deployed they get melta'd if not they toasted when they come on in nice peicemeal chunks.

I know you can castle but why is that rather boring tactic forced upon the army?

Flingitnow, you keep ignoring the piece where I state the following: (I'll make sure to emphasize it.)
the Tau need improvement, but this is not the improvement that they need.

I'm not totally sold on this idea myself just saying we need the help and something like this would be a useful boon (as I've stated prsonally I'd prefer a flee reaction possibly tied to Ethreals and/or Ethereal wargear). Wwe doneed some way to deal with assault. Not necessarily to win the assault or even do significant damage during it but some way of dealing with it.

I like it as long as things like targeting drones and junk are not allowed to be used. That would not be right if you could pin the unit trying to charge you in their own phase. Other than that I am a fan as I actually believe this mechanic (like the old overwatch rule) should be instituted in the game again.

So, after making this thread a while back and seeing the usual happen, I'm going to clarify my original idea after having played it a bit, and thought it out some more.

If a team of Fire Warriors or Pathfinders is charged in the assault phase, they have the option to forgo their attacks in that phase and fire their weapon at the attacker. Any casualties are not part of combat resolution, and thus the tau will always lose, unless the opponent wiffs.

I still don't understand all the opposition to this idea, aside from people wanting to troll. The arguments against this have all lacked one vital part; an argument. They've all been "this is dumb because my khorn berzerkers might take a casualty when assaulting tau now" and "mah spehs mureenz mite hav 2 uze a nu stategee nau?!?! OMFG BROKEN!!" The idea of letting tau shoot while in CC is ludicrous, and the idea of plaid fire warriors makes me nauseous.

And in case the first 8 words didn't catch in the actual description of this idea, ONLY fire warriors and pathfinders would get this rule, not battlesuits.

And to the assault grenades person, since when have frag missiles been pinning? The purpose of frag grenades is to confuse and disorient when you're about to attack them. If they are shooting you before or as you throw them, you still get shot.

I love how a thread about making tau more shooty, has turned into a tau should be better at cc.

I think that the allied races will see a boost to their cc capabilities, before we see the tau get any such boost.

I would like to see some special abilities attached to the kroot shaper, give him a power weapon for starters, and a choice of one special cc ability
like giving his squad a 12 inch charge range (leaping), or reducing incoming enemy cc attacks by one (defend), Feel no Pain for the squad, or granting the kroot squad preferred enemy in close combat. You get the idea, there are lots of ways to increase kroot's tar pitting abilities.

On a similar note, giving vespids rending would give a nice cc capability to the tau as well.

let tau shoot pretty lasers, and let allied races take up the brutal close combats.

Within the tau themselves, changing the Ethereal into an inquisitor mystic equivalent would be helpful for dealing with deep strikers.

Another popular way to deal with first turn assaults is to place your army in reserve, and don't steal initiative. Give the highest ranking battle suit commander a master strategist or hive commander like ability.

Similarly allowing access to a master of the fleet like ability somewhere in the list to hamper enemy reserves, would help weaken the power of enemy outflanking lists by forcing them to come in piecemeal.

I think these changes would be better than giving tau fire warriors a "stand and shoot" ability which is lacking in the entire rest of the game.

'Issues' I perceive with the Tau army:

1) 5th Ed Cover saves screwed JSJ. Where Crisis suits previously could claim cover from some very flimsy objects, they must now have 100% of their body covered to make this tactic effective.

2) 5th Ed cover saves impacted tau infantry relatively less positively than anyone else. The game shifted from low numbers of high AP shots, to high numbers of low ap shots and cover negating fire. MEQ's benefited because there aren't so many lascannons. GEQ's benefited because they get a cover save in more circumstances than previously. Tau, stuck in the middle, got neither benefit.

3) Tau lack cover negating fire. Flamers (which require your suits getting up close and personal) and one special issue weapon makes up our entire template arsenal.

4) Tau have poor leadership. Most armies have good base leadership (SM's), or special rules that for a large part of the game overcome their leadership deficits (Orks, Nids, Guard). Tau have neither.

5) 2 + 4 combined make Fire Warriors bad at holding objectives. High cost, low number, easy to kill/break infantry are difficult to keep in place.

6) General lack of access to variety of weapons. The vast majority of Tau weaponry is S5Ap5. Our best anti-tank weapons come in the Heavy Support slot, and the number of other special weapons (PR's and MP's) are restricted by the number of crisis suits available in the army. I know the theme of the tau army is for all the units to work together, but S5Ap5 Firewarriors working together with S5Ap5 stealth suits and S5Ap5 piranhas doesn't really achieve anything, and there just aren't enough special weapons to bring to bear.

7) Weak close combat ability, no psychic ability. However, those are never going to change.

Ways I would personally fix this:
1) Fix JSJ so that crisis can survive more easily, or lower crisis cost and increase number available per elite slot.

2)

3) Add a barrage weapon as either a battlesuit weapon option, new battlesuit type, or hammerhead option. Increase the number of drone types to possibly include flamer drones. Allow Crisis suits to take hard-wired flamers.

4) Fix the C+C Node so that all models in range are Ld10. Increase the leadership inspiring abilities of ethereals. Change bonding back so that it applies to the entire team (not just the one carrying the knife). Consider adding leadership drones or addons to tanks (Propaganda Towers, anyone here play C+C Generals?)

5) Reduce FW costs (by maybe 2 points). Make photon grenades free/standard. ADD MORE MARKERLIGHTS TO THE ARMY Give FW some static defensive purchases, like one-use deployable Stealth Generators, Disruption Pods or Grav-Fields (slows enemy walking past a certain point - a literal tar pit). Increase out of battle support (hampering reserves, orbital strikes) or perhaps add medics.

6) Increase number of crisis suits available. Increase number of hammerheads available. Make Vespids better. Allow Heavy Gun Drones with battlesuit weapons. Allow firewarriors to take a special weapon. Allow for hammerhead variants like the forgeworld ones, or just nasty weapons like a S5Ap5 Heavy 20 turret option

7) Perhaps a psychic hood or null rod type item, but that would be getting out of character. Give photon grenades to more units - perhaps even to crisis suits? One thing i would like (which I know is unpopular) is for Crisis suits (or at least commanders + bodyguards) to have the option of purchasing a CC weapon of some sort at a slightly inflated price - not because I think it would be particularly useful, but for thematic/modelling reasons to represent a farsight army.


I know that adding all of those might possibly be too powerful, but selecting 1-2 from each point could help to bolster tau in weak areas and make them a competitive army without removing their thematic weaknesses

StarHunter25 wrote:So, after making this thread a while back and seeing the usual happen, I'm going to clarify my original idea after having played it a bit, and thought it out some more.

If a team of Fire Warriors or Pathfinders is charged in the assault phase, they have the option to forgo their attacks in that phase and fire their weapon at the attacker. Any casualties are not part of combat resolution, and thus the tau will always lose, unless the opponent wiffs.

I still don't understand all the opposition to this idea, aside from people wanting to troll. The arguments against this have all lacked one vital part; an argument. They've all been "this is dumb because my khorn berzerkers might take a casualty when assaulting tau now" and "mah spehs mureenz mite hav 2 uze a nu stategee nau?!?! OMFG BROKEN!!" The idea of letting tau shoot while in CC is ludicrous, and the idea of plaid fire warriors makes me nauseous.

And in case the first 8 words didn't catch in the actual description of this idea, ONLY fire warriors and pathfinders would get this rule, not battlesuits.

And to the assault grenades person, since when have frag missiles been pinning? The purpose of frag grenades is to confuse and disorient when you're about to attack them. If they are shooting you before or as you throw them, you still get shot.

How about some examples of combats you used this in? Did you try it vs. a variety of opponents (Nids, Orks, IG) or just MEQ? How many games did you try it in?

Generally, more info please.

Trasvi wrote:'Issues' I perceive with the Tau army:

1) 5th Ed Cover saves screwed JSJ. Where Crisis suits previously could claim cover from some very flimsy objects, they must now have 100% of their body covered to make this tactic effective.

2) 5th Ed cover saves impacted tau infantry relatively less positively than anyone else. The game shifted from low numbers of high AP shots, to high numbers of low ap shots and cover negating fire. MEQ's benefited because there aren't so many lascannons. GEQ's benefited because they get a cover save in more circumstances than previously. Tau, stuck in the middle, got neither benefit.

3) Tau lack cover negating fire. Flamers (which require your suits getting up close and personal) and one special issue weapon makes up our entire template arsenal.

4) Tau have poor leadership. Most armies have good base leadership (SM's), or special rules that for a large part of the game overcome their leadership deficits (Orks, Nids, Guard). Tau have neither.

5) 2 + 4 combined make Fire Warriors bad at holding objectives. High cost, low number, easy to kill/break infantry are difficult to keep in place.

6) General lack of access to variety of weapons. The vast majority of Tau weaponry is S5Ap5. Our best anti-tank weapons come in the Heavy Support slot, and the number of other special weapons (PR's and MP's) are restricted by the number of crisis suits available in the army. I know the theme of the tau army is for all the units to work together, but S5Ap5 Firewarriors working together with S5Ap5 stealth suits and S5Ap5 piranhas doesn't really achieve anything, and there just aren't enough special weapons to bring to bear.

7) Weak close combat ability, no psychic ability. However, those are never going to change.

Ways I would personally fix this:
1) Fix JSJ so that crisis can survive more easily, or lower crisis cost and increase number available per elite slot.

2)

3) Add a barrage weapon as either a battlesuit weapon option, new battlesuit type, or hammerhead option. Increase the number of drone types to possibly include flamer drones. Allow Crisis suits to take hard-wired flamers.

4) Fix the C+C Node so that all models in range are Ld10. Increase the leadership inspiring abilities of ethereals. Change bonding back so that it applies to the entire team (not just the one carrying the knife). Consider adding leadership drones or addons to tanks (Propaganda Towers, anyone here play C+C Generals?)

5) Reduce FW costs (by maybe 2 points). Make photon grenades free/standard. ADD MORE MARKERLIGHTS TO THE ARMY Give FW some static defensive purchases, like one-use deployable Stealth Generators, Disruption Pods or Grav-Fields (slows enemy walking past a certain point - a literal tar pit). Increase out of battle support (hampering reserves, orbital strikes) or perhaps add medics.

6) Increase number of crisis suits available. Increase number of hammerheads available. Make Vespids better. Allow Heavy Gun Drones with battlesuit weapons. Allow firewarriors to take a special weapon. Allow for hammerhead variants like the forgeworld ones, or just nasty weapons like a S5Ap5 Heavy 20 turret option

7) Perhaps a psychic hood or null rod type item, but that would be getting out of character. Give photon grenades to more units - perhaps even to crisis suits? One thing i would like (which I know is unpopular) is for Crisis suits (or at least commanders + bodyguards) to have the option of purchasing a CC weapon of some sort at a slightly inflated price - not because I think it would be particularly useful, but for thematic/modelling reasons to represent a farsight army.


I know that adding all of those might possibly be too powerful, but selecting 1-2 from each point could help to bolster tau in weak areas and make them a competitive army without removing their thematic weaknesses

1) This is true. Maybe the Tau could "develope" Distortion feilds" which give their battle suits bonus' to cover or something.

2) I can not argue with that, however I do not have any suggestions for it either.

3) That would be awesome, though it would probably be a Broadside upgrade/varient, since they are the supporters. Though I would not be opposed to to making it a man-carried weapon.

4) I would leave the bonding knifes alone (since it is tied to the group leader, and watching the group leader die would be kinda shaking.) The C+C Node is fine, as it is meant for the bearer to inspire his soldiers. I agree with the Ethereal though, something needs to be done with them, the reroll just isnt enough.

5) I do not agree with this, as 8 pts a model for the best standard issue guns is kinda unbalanced, IMHO. Making the Pathfinders cheaper would be good, but not making markerlights "more common" per say. Pathfinders are supposed to be markerlighters, not the rest of the army. And the FW are not static defense, fluff-wise, so giving them options for such is just... wrong.

6) Again I do not agree. The number of suits is fine, its just that the rest of the army is basically crippled. Hammerheads should be reduced in cost (They only really have one gun....) a little, but not made like the Guard where you can have 9 of them in one army.

7) The Tau are, IMHO, the only army who shouldn't get psychic defenses, because as you said it is out of character. Photon grenades, nah, but maybe like a sort of Photon Flair that takes up a slot. I wouldn't mind giving the suits a Power Weapon, but thats as powerful as I would go, they are supposed to shoot things, after all.

and to above posts, I have no problem buffing the Tau army, but to make them better in CC is just not what the Tau are supposed to be doing.

Sorry about not clarifying my displeasure, but the only armies around me are MEQ. I quite literally do not have any ork players to test this against, so its kinda moot. Aside form that, I agree that Tau need some changes in a lot of areas, but I kinda wanted to keep this to a "how to make tau not instantly lose on turn 2 because they assaulted me" thread. At least we can't be daisy chained anymore. I'll leave it at that and let everyone else think up new stuff, plus I'm preoccupied with work and school to think up anymore good ideas.

StarHunter25 wrote:Sorry about not clarifying my displeasure, but the only armies around me are MEQ. I quite literally do not have any ork players to test this against, so its kinda moot. Aside form that, I agree that Tau need some changes in a lot of areas, but I kinda wanted to keep this to a "how to make tau not instantly lose on turn 2 because they assaulted me" thread. At least we can't be daisy chained anymore. I'll leave it at that and let everyone else think up new stuff, plus I'm preoccupied with work and school to think up anymore good ideas.

A plethora of ideas have already been thrown out there...don't worry yourself. In this threads, you'll post ideas...some will agree...some will disagree...Skinnittar will show up and rant about Imperial Guard for a bit , and the thread will end with everyone saying "GW will do whatever they damn well please" (which probably means some OP units, some useless, several unclear rules, and the models/transports cheapening.)

A plethora of ideas have already been thrown out there...don't worry yourself. In this threads, you'll post ideas...some will agree...some will disagree...Skinnittar will show up and rant about Imperial Guard for a bit , and the thread will end with everyone saying "GW will do whatever they damn well please" (which probably means some OP units, some useless, several unclear rules, and the models/transports cheapening.)

QFT

The general census seems to be that the Tau as an army needs to be buffed in CC but the Firewarriors are a poor choice to do this with without making them too OP.

Why not buff up the Kroot?
Idea: Give the Kroot some kind of assault overwatch ability, so that when units attack Tau firewarriors they have an option to break before combat and have to pass an unmodified Ld roll to regroup (alternativley since it is an ordered retreat give them +1). But now the Kroot are stuck in CC with the attacking unit (tarpit).

Proposal: If a Tau firewarrior squad is assaulted; and a Kroot squad within 6" has not shot the previous turn or is not otherwise preoccupied with pinning, CC etc. then the Kroot may assault in and the Tau firewarriors have the option of autobreaking. In this case both the assaulting enemy squad and the Kroot squad get their assault bonus, but cover for either of these two is ignored. Think of this like castleing in chess.

Disclaimer: Obviously I haven't had a chance to play test this and the only friend I know who plays Tau is in the sandbox right now. Anyone who is interested let us know how this goes.

This is probably a very bad idea but why not give JUST FIREWARRIORS a rule that shows in obviously hopeless situations they will sacrifice their lives for the greater and just keep shooting till they are cut down?

Or probably better make this apply only if they are in an army containing an ethereal as he inspires them to great acts of bravery.

So all it means is the squad gets to rapid fire all weapons at normal ballistic skill maybe positive one for such ridiculous close range and are then instantly removed from the game as casualty's?

This wouldn't actually be making them better at cc and fluff wise would be representing there devotion to the greater good.

So you are saying they can detonate when they're assaulted? Are they taking cues from the Tyranids? I don't like this idea for fluff reasons, it doesn't seem to me that the Tau of all races would just off-themselves because they are getting stomped on in CC. A tactical retreat fits fluff.

Trasvi wrote:'Issues' I perceive with the Tau army:

1) 5th Ed Cover saves screwed JSJ. Where Crisis suits previously could claim cover from some very flimsy objects, they must now have 100% of their body covered to make this tactic effective.

2) 5th Ed cover saves impacted tau infantry relatively less positively than anyone else. The game shifted from low numbers of high AP shots, to high numbers of low ap shots and cover negating fire. MEQ's benefited because there aren't so many lascannons. GEQ's benefited because they get a cover save in more circumstances than previously. Tau, stuck in the middle, got neither benefit.

3) Tau lack cover negating fire. Flamers (which require your suits getting up close and personal) and one special issue weapon makes up our entire template arsenal.

4) Tau have poor leadership. Most armies have good base leadership (SM's), or special rules that for a large part of the game overcome their leadership deficits (Orks, Nids, Guard). Tau have neither.

5) 2 + 4 combined make Fire Warriors bad at holding objectives. High cost, low number, easy to kill/break infantry are difficult to keep in place.

6) General lack of access to variety of weapons. The vast majority of Tau weaponry is S5Ap5. Our best anti-tank weapons come in the Heavy Support slot, and the number of other special weapons (PR's and MP's) are restricted by the number of crisis suits available in the army. I know the theme of the tau army is for all the units to work together, but S5Ap5 Firewarriors working together with S5Ap5 stealth suits and S5Ap5 piranhas doesn't really achieve anything, and there just aren't enough special weapons to bring to bear.

7) Weak close combat ability, no psychic ability. However, those are never going to change.

Ways I would personally fix this:
1) Fix JSJ so that crisis can survive more easily, or lower crisis cost and increase number available per elite slot.

2)

3) Add a barrage weapon as either a battlesuit weapon option, new battlesuit type, or hammerhead option. Increase the number of drone types to possibly include flamer drones. Allow Crisis suits to take hard-wired flamers.

4) Fix the C+C Node so that all models in range are Ld10. Increase the leadership inspiring abilities of ethereals. Change bonding back so that it applies to the entire team (not just the one carrying the knife). Consider adding leadership drones or addons to tanks (Propaganda Towers, anyone here play C+C Generals?)

5) Reduce FW costs (by maybe 2 points). Make photon grenades free/standard. ADD MORE MARKERLIGHTS TO THE ARMY Give FW some static defensive purchases, like one-use deployable Stealth Generators, Disruption Pods or Grav-Fields (slows enemy walking past a certain point - a literal tar pit). Increase out of battle support (hampering reserves, orbital strikes) or perhaps add medics.

6) Increase number of crisis suits available. Increase number of hammerheads available. Make Vespids better. Allow Heavy Gun Drones with battlesuit weapons. Allow firewarriors to take a special weapon. Allow for hammerhead variants like the forgeworld ones, or just nasty weapons like a S5Ap5 Heavy 20 turret option

7) Perhaps a psychic hood or null rod type item, but that would be getting out of character. Give photon grenades to more units - perhaps even to crisis suits? One thing i would like (which I know is unpopular) is for Crisis suits (or at least commanders + bodyguards) to have the option of purchasing a CC weapon of some sort at a slightly inflated price - not because I think it would be particularly useful, but for thematic/modelling reasons to represent a farsight army.


I know that adding all of those might possibly be too powerful, but selecting 1-2 from each point could help to bolster tau in weak areas and make them a competitive army without removing their thematic weaknesses

1) And yet you can still use your Hammerheads or Devilfish as mobile cover for your Crisis suits; it's not *as* effective against Guard, but then again your vehicles are tougher in a protracted slugfest.
2) 5th edition's emphasis on large amounts of cover meant that lasplas tacticals went out of style. Fire Warriors were overcosted to begin with and designed around static warfare.
3) I personally bring two Pathfinder units at 2000 points. What was that about no cover-ignoring weapons?
4) Your suits are Leadership 8 which is Guard-level for the most part.
5) Why haven't you meched up your Fire Warriors? See part 3.
6) Don't you mean S8 AP 1 Piranhas? This I agree with though as the Tau armies look alike once the points scale up. Fireknifes? Check. Broadsides? Check. Krootscreen? Check.
7) Kroot are *fine* as is. Thhey aren't great melee, but are enough to finish off units softened up by your shooting. Give them Hounds and optionally attach a Shas'el w/ Target Lock to them.

As to your fixes:
1) JSJ is fine. If you're doing it right, you should never *not* have a cover save anyway. For costing about the same as a CML Terminator, yet not having to be burdened with cheapo members, and putting out more firepower, the Fireknife feels about right. Of course, making the points costs become a multiple of 5 never hurt.
2) Hrm?
3) They'll probably put the XV-9 in. Honestly though, the simplest thing to do would be to make the Smart Missile System a move-and-fire Barrage option. Because it feels weird now how it's basically a machinegun firing magic bullets.
4) What is this C&C Generals you speak of? Do not disturb Westwood's slumber with idle rumorings. Giving universal Leadership 10 bubbles would be crazy though.
5) I'd say reduce by 1 point, build both grenade types in (against a lot of vehicles, the EMP is worse than a Krak Grenade). The carbine is Assault 2, but a 3-point upgrade. Not a fan of any other options.
6) Fire Warriors specifically are *not* supposed to take Special Weapons. Making it so Farsight allows Crisis Suits as Troops would be fun though.
7) The Ethereal can take Alien Auxiliaries. One of them is a Kroot Shaman. There's your Hood-equivalent, as well as some booga-booga Jungle Magic.

They wouldn't be detonating just firing to the last.

And what kind of tactical retreat can you make when you have space marines about to stomp on your heads and they have jump packs or termagants about to tear your face in.

By poor leadership I mean, no leadership ignoring rules. Many/most armies have rules which make them much stronger in the leadership game than their raw Ld value would suggest. Mob rules, synapse, re-rolls, fearless, stubborn, all that jazz.

J+J... you can always have a cover save, but in previous edition it was not hard to be completely out of LOS; now it is much more difficult to get the ninja going.

More alien auxiliaries would be good in my opinion, but not so much that a list requires them to be effective. An all-tau army should be sufficient. Kroot or Nicassar psykers would be awesome, though I'd prefer to see them in more of a buff/debuff role than offensive casting.

J+J... you can always have a cover save, but in previous edition it was not hard to be completely out of LOS; now it is much more difficult to get the ninja going.

Yeah and the cover save is no use if you're receiving small arms fire anyway... Remember a tree may be able to stop a Lascannon but it is powerless to help you against a lasgun or bolter...

FlingitNow wrote:

Yeah and the cover save is no use if you're receiving small arms fire anyway... Remember a tree may be able to stop a Lascannon but it is powerless to help you against a lasgun or bolter...

Imagine if you will a deathrain crisis squad with stealth field generators....mmmmm Say, 20 pts each?

Realistically, Tau should ideally have viable alternatives to Fireknife-spam in their Elite section. They're like Eldar in that they only really have one good Elite.

MagicJuggler wrote:Realistically, Tau should ideally have viable alternatives to Fireknife-spam in their Elite section. They're like Eldar in that they only really have one good Elite.

Yeah, out of two choices but some people will argue that the Stealth teams aren't terrible (I'm not one of them).

Like pretty much everyone else, I am writing a Tau fandex.

It's mostly a schizophrenic set of ideas to make them less FINAL DESTINATION more than anything else. Their shooting is fine for the most part.

Good luck with that.

I think I'll tape "Suck" over Tau on the cover of my codex. I unshelved my Tau Saturday for a game because I haven't played them in a while; about the end of the 2nd turn I was thinking, "Oh yeah, that's why I don't play them anymore."

That said, there are some ideas I was contemplating, regarding additional Markerlight abilities. Tell me what you think of the following ideas?

Coordinated Fire: Two or more units may spend a Markerlight Token per unit involved, to count as the same unit for determining the number of hits.
Example: Three Railheads wish to fire Submunitions at an Ork horde. A Pathfinder unit scores 3 Markerlight Hits. By spending all three, the Railheads count as a squad of 3 Railheads for purposes of determining wounds, benefitting from multiple blasts, etc, when shooting at this target.

AI Guidance System: By spending two (or three, depending on if it proves too powerful) Markerlight Tokens, a unit may fire one more weapon at this target beyond those it would normally be allowed to fire.
Examples: Allowing a Piranha to fire after moving Flat-out (How's that for an airstrike). Letting a Hammerhead fire its Railgun despite being Shaken.

You'd have to make markerlights more available first. Keep points and other things the same and make them heavy 2 perhaps? I would also like to see them all, "networked".

In terms of making MLs more available I'd make "normal" ML 18" assault weapons, bump the pathfinder units size up to 12" and allow them to fire MLs out of their transport (I'd invent a new transport for this that comes with infiltrate and stealth field generator). This would allow you to use them in FW squads more and make pathfidners actually scouts.

Then I'd make the drones 15-20 points each with Networked ML which stay heavy 36" range.

I'd move sniper teams to troops and allow you to switch the sniper dornes for ML drones.

How about that for making MLs work very differently? Making pathfinders actually scouts and allowing more MLs into the team.