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coredump wrote:Two issues.

1) It never gets that far, the IC can only move 6" this turn.

2) The rules do *not* say the IC must move into coherency to join a unit.

simply has to move so that he is within the 2"
coherency distance of a friendly unit at the end of
their Movement phase.

He simply as to move so that he is in coherency at the end of the phase.
So, if he moves, and does so in a way that he is in coherency at the end of the phase... he has followed the rules.

By moving to where the unit is going, he is moving to be in coherency at the end of the phase.

It says at the end of THEIR movement phase, not at the end of THE Movement phase. The end of Their (the IC's) Movement Phase is when you finish moving him.

hmm.. so the terminators move first and break the 2 inch rule from shrike. Right? Then shrike moves his 8 to 10 inches and then ends his movement phase within 2 inches of the terminators to 'rejoin' the unit at the end of the movement phase?

Then in the shooting phase they fleet?

Seems cheesy but possible.

blood angel wrote:hmm.. so the terminators move first and break the 2 inch rule from shrike. Right? Then shrike moves his 8 to 10 inches and then ends his movement phase within 2 inches of the terminators to 'rejoin' the unit at the end of the movement phase?

The terminators can't move "first" because when the unit goes to move, both Shrike and whatever terminator models are present are one unit and the unit moves together.

blood angel wrote:hmm.. so the terminators move first and break the 2 inch rule from shrike. Right? Then shrike moves his 8 to 10 inches and then ends his movement phase within 2 inches of the terminators to 'rejoin' the unit at the end of the movement phase?

Then in the shooting phase they fleet?

Seems cheesy but possible.

The ONLY way you can have an IC leave the unit is for the IC to leave - the unit cannot leave the IC. So no, this won't work.

The IC has to move out of the unit, and until the end of their movement is STILL part of the unit and can ONLY move 6".

Gwar! wrote:It says at the end of THEIR movement phase, not at the end of THE Movement phase. The end of Their (the IC's) Movement Phase is when you finish moving him.

Isn't there only 1 movement phase? I don't believe that each model/unit has its own movement phase. And therefore 'their' would just be referring to 'that player's' movement phase?

Deminyn wrote:

Gwar! wrote:It says at the end of THEIR movement phase, not at the end of THE Movement phase. The end of Their (the IC's) Movement Phase is when you finish moving him.

Isn't there only 1 movement phase? I don't believe that each model/unit has its own movement phase. And therefore 'their' would just be referring to 'that player's' movement phase?

Except it isn't. It is talking about the models Movement phase, which ends as soon as the model finishes it's movement.

Gwar! wrote:[Except it isn't. It is talking about the models Movement phase, which ends as soon as the model finishes it's movement.

The model's movement finishes when the model finishes moving. The phase finishes at the end of the phase.


If I have a Lunch Hour, but only take 15 minutes to eat lunch, my Lunch Hour still finishes 45 minutes later.

Gwar! wrote:Except it isn't. It is talking about the models Movement phase, which ends as soon as the model finishes it's movement.

If each model has its own Movement phase then the rules manage to completely avoid any discussion of how long that phase is, or what is performed in that phase. On the other hand, the rules do go into detail about a model's movement and a player's movement phase.

If 'model's Movement phase' is taken to mean 'model's player's Movement phase', then there's no need to invent a game mechanic referenced by only one sentence in the rules.

insaniak wrote:

Gwar! wrote:[Except it isn't. It is talking about the models Movement phase, which ends as soon as the model finishes it's movement.

The model's movement finishes when the model finishes moving. The phase finishes at the end of the phase.


If I have a Lunch Hour, but only take 15 minutes to eat lunch, my Lunch Hour still finishes 45 minutes later.

The PHASE ends later, but the individual models movement phase ends as soon as he finishes his movement.

By your logic Njal's Lord of Tempests powers never work, as they refer to "Njal's Shooting/Assault Phases", not "The Player Controling Njal's Phases."

Gwar! wrote:By your logic Njal's Lord of Tempests powers never work, as they refer to "Njal's Shooting/Assault Phases", not "The Player Controling Njal's Phases."

By my logic, Njal's shooting/assault phase is the Space Wolf shooting/assault phase, on account of him being a part of the Space Wolf army. Njal's shooting phase is the shooting phase in which Njal gets to shoot... which is the Space Wolf player's shooting phase.

Referring to the army's phase, and an individual model's phase are the same.

insaniak wrote:

Gwar! wrote:By your logic Njal's Lord of Tempests powers never work, as they refer to "Njal's Shooting/Assault Phases", not "The Player Controling Njal's Phases."

By my logic, Njal's shooting/assault phase is the Space Wolf shooting/assault phase, on account of him being a part of the Space Wolf army. Njal's shooting phase is the shooting phase in which Njal gets to shoot... which is the Space Wolf player's shooting phase.

Referring to the army's phase, and an individual model's phase are the same.

I can see where this is going and I am going to bow out now before things get too heated.

I have made my case and I have nothing further to add.

I keep looking for any rule detailing that there is more than one movement phase, but can't find that rule.

I looked for a rule stating that each unit has its own movement phase, but can't find that rule

If anyone else can find the rule that states this, I would appreciate it.

Gwar! wrote:It says at the end of THEIR movement phase, not at the end of THE Movement phase. The end of Their (the IC's) Movement Phase is when you finish moving him.

That paragraph refers to an IC many times, and every time it uses the *singlular* term or pronoun. Yet it refers to "their" movement phase, which is plural.

i see it as thus:

IC in a unit. if:
- you move IC first, then he can move his normal speed and use his wargear as normal, but reverts to being IC and not part of a unit that turn. (unless he moves into range of a diffrent unit so you could leave unit A to join unit B 12" away) because in order to join a unit, the IC must move into unit coherency with them. (not the other way around)
- if the unit moves first, IC moves with, going at slowest rate. so no jump pack etc.
- if IC leaves unit and does not move into range of another, but another unit moves to him, they are not joined, since in order to join a unit, the IC must do so as part of his move.

therefore: shrike moves 12" = leaving unit, and regardless of his ex units move, may not rejoin them this movment, since IC did not move into range, rather the unit moved to IC.

as far as movement in general, you pick a unit, move it, when its done its done, you then pick a diffrent unit and repeat. so by picking shrike (as an individual unit) and having him leave the termies, at the end of shrikes move, he is not within 2" of a unit, and therefore not joined. he then picks the termies, and moves them but must stay 2" asway from shrike, since shrike did not join or remain joined with the termies that movment phaze. if he wants shrike to stay with the termies, then they all move at the slowest pace, wich is 6" followed by a d6" run, and a 6" charge - barring any special unit rules.

as for a models phase being the armys phase this is not acurate. you have a phase, movment shooting assault, in wich your entire army may partake of that action at this time. during the phase you pick a single unit, declare and resolve its actions, when its finished its done, you then pick next unit and so on. you dont get to go "unit A shoots some stuff, then unit B shoots some stuff, then unit A does some more stuff" so a character that has an ability that works in a phase goes off when he does his actions during that phase. so for special shooting, during armys shooting phase, you pick character, shoot his weapons and/or use his abilitys. when finished, pick the next unit and do the same, applying any bonus or penalty incured as a result of previous actions, and so on.

Darthspader - excpet that would be your *house* rule, not the actual rule.

The actual rule is that you are part of the unit until the end of your movement, meaning you must abide by the 2move as slowest member" rule, meaining only a 6" move.