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I personaly don't see what all the fuss is about,fantasy minitures depicting females in skimpy dress or "porn armour" are just that..."fantasy".
If your offended by them,dont buy them or play against them...very simple.
And as far as "objectifying" women,I honestly belive that most people "objectify" everyone to a greater or lesser degree...the guy behind the counter at Mcdonalds isn't "John,the student who also aspires to play in a band some day" to most people...he's just the "guy at Mcdonalds".

Platuan4th wrote:

Kubik wrote:repeating crossbows

How is that fantasy?

omg, you know what I mean. I'm sure You will find real life chainswords too if you'll look hard enough

Because guys boobs

/thread

Because for female characters, armour class is inversly proportionate to amount of armour.

I guess that means running around completely naked= 1+ Armour 1+Invul?

Not only that, but all enemy models in LOS are unable to do anything but stare. Only daemons are invulnerable to this, and reduce her saves to 2+ and 2++.

I really haven't seen that much "Porno Plate" beyond my brief 2 years in WoW, before they completely ruined the game. Then again I haven't played many MMORPGs as it seems to be the epicentre for Porno plate and "I give you gold 4 look @ ur boobs!" kids. I think it really depends on Genre of game. I've played a couple Sci Fi MMOs and neither of them had porno plate. In Face of Mankind, one of the titles I tried out, players with female characters in Police or Military service were almost indistinguishable from male characters when wearing full body armour and shielded helmets. The only thing that really gave them away were their more slender forms. And then games like the Mass Effect titles, Metroid, and Anarchy Online, to name three, also have armour that's made -for- a female form without being revealing. There might be the odd scrap of porno plate now and then, but it's really not a signifigant enough amount to call out on.

I also don't consider Sisters to be wearing Porno plate, as it's not like they're wearing armour that looks more like a bikini than something you'd bring to a fight. They're in fully enclosed Power Armour. The fact that they've sculpted boob-holders into their armour is just to signify that they -are- women. Because, let's be honest, some of them are pretty manly looking.

metallifan wrote:Because, let's be honest, some of them are pretty manly looking.

...considers possibility that all Battle Sisters are actually transvestites...

Flashman wrote:

metallifan wrote:Because, let's be honest, some of them are pretty manly looking.

...Realizes fact that all Battle Sisters are actually transvestites...

Fix'd for ya

Is it really any different from male armor with giant broad chest and shoulders? Is not as if there's much of a double standard.

Shaman wrote:

This is sisters in reasonable armor disappointing no?

See I still prefer porno plate.. Guess Im sexist then haha.

I quite like it...

"Because the nerd is a tiresome, predictable creature..."

There are a few sculpts out there of women showing a lot of skin that I really like. I'm working on a set of conversions right now that will be almost totally nude. So it's not a case of offensiveness, it's just a case of class. I'm not against the chainmail bikini, but there's a time and place for it. A lot of times it feels like people who produce fantasy/sci-fi content for young men (nerds) feel the need to shoe-horn it into every female character's wardrobe.

It's not offensive, it's just kinda sad. By trying to make the product more adult, they've actually made it far, far more childish. It's the sex version of GW's GRIMDARK violence paradox.

I agree with the realism of some of the mini's that need to look, like they are dressed for the occasion of battle....but things like the bikini armour and what not falls into the fantasy of all aspects (whether sci-fi or medieval times) for the targeted market.

Though this is not mini related....I recalled when Metroid first came out in the 80's....people had no idea that Samus Aran was a female character until they defeated the game in x-hours to reveal her with out the armour.....Though the proportions of the armour shows some aspect of the female body....it threw everyone off by the true identity of Samus. Did people complain...maybe a few, but everyone accepted the armour for its functionality of it.



Its not that I am for it or against the lay out of how mini manufacturer's should represent female armoured miniatures,
but as the OP has mentioned some realism should be taken into consideration

Yes, I demand realism in my video games about bounty hunters... in space... fighting monsters genetically engineered... by... Space Pirates?

Take a look at Halo Legends.The Spartan in one episode looks just like the Chief, yet when the Brute attacks them, SHE takes her helmet off in her dying breaths. She was female. Did she have massive breats armour? No.

JOHIRA wrote:There are a few sculpts out there of women showing a lot of skin that I really like. I'm working on a set of conversions right now that will be almost totally nude. So it's not a case of offensiveness, it's just a case of class. I'm not against the chainmail bikini, but there's a time and place for it. A lot of times it feels like people who produce fantasy/sci-fi content for young men (nerds) feel the need to shoe-horn it into every female character's wardrobe.

It's not offensive, it's just kinda sad. By trying to make the product more adult, they've actually made it far, far more childish. It's the sex version of GW's GRIMDARK violence paradox.

It just goes to show that many of the creative people are really, really immature. Even otherwise great miniature lines usually produce cringeworthy female models. Off the top of my head, I could list ten great male figures that don't look like beefcake, but would be at a loss to find even five awesome non-cheesecake females.

Kubik wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:

Kubik wrote:repeating crossbows

How is that fantasy?

omg, you know what I mean. I'm sure You will find real life chainswords too if you'll look hard enough

I don't know about that, but you don't have to look too far to find 6' long swords: the average Scottish Claymore was about 5'.

Also, back on topic, it's called fantasy armor for a reason.

I can't help but remeber a seinfeld bit about this kind of thing. Actualy, that sentance is applicable to almost anything.

Henners91 wrote:



Full armour can still look alright

Sorry but Joan of Arc was the only one I could think of...

I though more or less along the same lines but rather than look at St Jeanne herself as a sex symbol, which is rather unfair I prefer to think of Milla Jovovich during her depiction of of Jeanne D'Arc for The Messenger. And yes she still manges to look hot in field plate. You probably wouldnt notice if she wore a helmet though.



It does leave it to the imagination whats underneath the rather masculine shaped shell, but that is little deterent. Pictures arent enough, watch the film and you understand why the french knights depicted thought she was hot as well as holy. A woman in armour can still move like a woman and act like a woman, ironically that can make her a lot sexier than if she was wearing a dress at the time.



Even bulky power armour cannot completely remove feminine charm if the helmet is missing. Brotherhood of Steel armour is far from sexy. Ballsy yes, sexy no. However I don't know about you but I distinctly got a positive mental impression about what is underneath Sarah Lyons ironwork.

Shaman wrote:

This is sisters in reasonable armor disappointing no?

See I still prefer porno plate.. Guess Im sexist then haha.

Standard sisters armour is not 'porno plate', It might cut a figure but doesn't skimp from protection unless the sister fails to wear a helmet. Besides some female armour can and should make allowances for the chest depending on the woman.
Sisters Repentia on the other hand....


Porno plate is partial plate often without any support padding or gambeson over naked or near naked flesh. It is very common in D&D style fantasy. It is historically accurate when depicting female gladiators, and for that matter male gladiators as they were designed to look sexy too. Normally in juveleine fantasy the area protected mimics the lines of the cut of a dress often a very skimpy dress.



Here is a pretty near perfect example of the dress mimicing concept. The cryxian Witch coven are armoured not clothed yet what you see is a low line dress, crop top and sideless halterneck all known forms of limited cover summer or evening wear but not armouring. The shoulders are often bare with prono plate wheras that is the first place to armour for a real fighter, including real gladiators wearing real arena armour that is designed to arouse as much as protect.
Take a look at real gladiator armour for a second.



This armour is designed for three purposes. Cheap, cut a manly figure for the audience and also protection. However the protection is limited its enough for which to attack faithfully but not enough to 'tank' your opponent unlike real soldiers armour. When duelling and in a fighting stance the protection offered is fairly good mostly shoulder and weapon arm cover, with head cover if you have a short ranged weapon. Thats good mimimal armour for duelling and saves you fro easy kills, but you need skill to keep your armoured side showing and skill to parry other blows.

Female gladiators were rarer but had fairly similar concepts for armouring.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gallery_of_female_warrior_Elite_Gladiator_armor

The armour at the above site is fantasy by not that bad, only for the real arena she would have a pectoral and armoured breast cups. Crouched for the attack and with the standard myrmidon weapons loadout of scimitar and buckler used for female gladiators she would have a good chance of protecting herself. Ironically the areas of the body actually armoured are with the exception of small greaves and vambraces almost exactly opposite to the 'armour' sported by Lady Aribeth as imaged in my prior post.

This is what is so ridiculous about prono plate. Female partial plate armour for the real arena existed and it got plenty of male attention and was far skimpier than most of the plate evening dresses so common for D&D and Privateer Press but far better designed.

i'd blame it on the Cod pieces....

You're right, lets do away with the fantasy porno plate....

...as a matter of fact, lets do away with ALL clothes on females in video games!



(did someone say sexist? Yep, proud of it!)

Dragon Age has a mix of both, the lighter armours are much closer to porno plate but usually aren't quite, the heavier armours however look nearly the same as they do on male characters as well. I think this is just something that Bioware does quite often, as I remember that only a few armours from either KOTOR was exactly revealing, though if you gave Bastilla sith armour then took it off her underwear went from golden good girl to black corset with stockings, but then again, that is underwear.

I don't generally play games that have waaaay too stupid female armour on them.

As for that fellow who mentioned that barbarians were perceived as masses of muscle who were little to no armour or if they did wore just furs, that's partially correct. As the warlords, cheifs, or higher ranking tribesmen would indeed have chainmail or some other form of armour, the vast majority of barbarians would fight with little to no armour. Some even thought that wearing anything at all was a sign of cowardice, look at the naked fanatics that are prevalent throughout celtic culture. The celtic warrior ideal wore no armour.

if guild wars female armors and dragon age looks sexist... take a look to Lineage 2 (i'm sure that someone will know what i'm talking about) it truly distract the player... as someone told before, it sells...

The same reason men in video games are muscle bound body builders with incredably huge shoudlers and a dashingly strong jaw line. Works both ways and my statement has as many exceptions as the OP does

Simple fact is that video games and comics etc.. are not fine art and go for a cariacture effect to convey the impression the artist wants. Also "strong and sexy" is not sexist at all as they do the same to guys, you just dont notice because you probably dont butter your bread on that side.

Leotilt wrote:The same reason men in video games are muscle bound body builders with incredably huge shoudlers and a dashingly strong jaw line. Works both ways and my statement has as many exceptions as the OP does

Simple fact is that video games and comics etc.. are not fine art and go for a cariacture effect to convey the impression the artist wants. Also "strong and sexy" is not sexist at all as they do the same to guys, you just dont notice because you probably dont butter your bread on that side.

100% true! and even more in the last years, 10-15 years ago was really strange to see a girl playing video games, so, thinking it coldly, is a "natural evolution" games makers must think in both, males and females as a greater market....

WAR did female Knights of the Blazing Sun well.

I think we all should post as many pictures as possible of this "sexist" armor so that I can exactly understand what you are talking about.

Leotilt wrote:The same reason men in video games are muscle bound body builders with incredably huge shoudlers and a dashingly strong jaw line. Works both ways and my statement has as many exceptions as the OP does

Simple fact is that video games and comics etc.. are not fine art and go for a cariacture effect to convey the impression the artist wants. Also "strong and sexy" is not sexist at all as they do the same to guys, you just dont notice because you probably dont butter your bread on that side.

Exactly,it's "fantasy escapeism"...huge powerfuly built men and busty curvacious women do not automaticly eqaute to "sexism".
Besides,as I've stated in previous threads,anyone who is cappable of becoming aroused or offended over a video game image or a minutare should get out and interact with the opposite sex more often.

Intresting to note that WARhammer online changed the character models for there korean/asia client to include pretty faces, big round doe eyes and spiky haircuts

I'm currently swatting the wife away from the PC as she wants to post gratuatus male examples of porno plate (like the film 300) :lol:

Leotilt wrote:I'm currently swatting the wife away from the PC as she wants to post gratuatus male examples of porno plate (like the film 300) :lol:

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