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Monster Rain wrote:

Leotilt wrote:I'm currently swatting the wife away from the PC as she wants to post gratuatus male examples of porno plate (like the film 300) :lol:

Like this?

See,THAT lends some perspective to the whole debate.

Did you have to quote that picture? Now this page is tainted too

Monster Rain wrote:

Leotilt wrote:I'm currently swatting the wife away from the PC as she wants to post gratuatus male examples of porno plate (like the film 300) :lol:

Like this?

MY EYES! THEY BURN!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Please stop quoting it, thats three times we have been subjected to the retina scarring image.


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Leotilt wrote:Intresting to note that WARhammer online changed the character models for there korean/asia client to include pretty faces, big round doe eyes and spiky haircuts

I'm currently swatting the wife away from the PC as she wants to post gratuatus male examples of porno plate (like the film 300) :lol:

Don't stop her. So long as she doesn't post images with 'tackle' we ought to be able to accept it, not to would be very immature and grossly unfair.

ahhhh!! i will have nightmares aaaaaaaaaaaaarrggg!!! maybe can i find some "sexist" porno plate girls from the game i referred before....

Hey guys, so what's the discussion been like so fa-AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

...AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!




Buh...so anyway, I don't mind skimpier fantasy outfits now and then, if it "makes sense" I guess. For example, Dark Elf Blackguard in WAR, whether male or female, wear full plate armor because they're tanks, meant to be on the front line taking damage. Dark Elf sorceresses wield powerful magic and sit in the back, doesn't really matter what they wear to battle. Witch elves I can tolerate being near nude, because they're just crazy, bloodthirsty killers. Skimpier outfits kinda fit the background anyway, if you ask me...they're all cruel and depraved, practicing dark rituals and making blood sacrifices, torturing people, etc. They're not really "right" in the head.

SilverMK2 wrote:Did you have to quote that picture? Now this page is tainted too

Sorry Silver,but as you can now see... my error has been repeated...and the taint spreads.

well tell it to her!

its suposed that this armor protects something



someone told about images about "sexist" armor... then here's one
anyway, maybe it works as an eye antidote for the latest pics....

FITZZ wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:

Leotilt wrote:I'm currently swatting the wife away from the PC as she wants to post gratuatus male examples of porno plate (like the film 300) :lol:

Like this?

See,THAT lends some perspective to the whole debate.

I think I found next years adepticon team tournie outfits

Feminine and functional. The perfect coordination for today's savvy Crusader.

well, you can't see naked skin on this one, but... still sexy

I wonder why

Henners91 wrote:The only game that I've played (this includes video and tabletop) that doesn't have female armour as curve-shaped breasty-showoff rubbish is Mount&Blade where, if I take off my curaiss and give it to a woman... it retains its shape!

I mean, don't give me rubbish about women being uncomfortable in non-customised armour, I don't think that excuse can lead to the extremes we see in wargames and vidya games...

Sure, give them a bit of space for their breasts, but squeezing along the hips surely isn't necessary?

Tbh it just leads me to conclude that we're all supposed to be fapping under the table when Sisters enter play?

Sexism!

While you raise a valid point I really think this issue is inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. To be honest, why are females prevalent in fighting/strategic/rpg/ and other games when in reality there were maybe a handful of women that took up a sword throughout all of history? If you're offended by such a thing don't buy the game that promotes it.

The fact of the matter is these are only games, they are a creative escape from reality and any sexism is there to sell the game. I'm an artist and the last thing I'd want is some government body or organizations telling me how I can draw a figure, male or female, so that certain aspects of the population would not get offended.


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Black Corsair wrote:well tell it to her!

its suposed that this armor protects something



someone told about images about "sexist" armor... then here's one
anyway, maybe it works as an eye antidote for the latest pics....

Sadly, the armor set shown there is a combination of several sets. The lower portion is for a Mage robe Tallum set, while the upper portions looks to be a Heavy bronze or Composite set. Lineage 2 is an absolutely extreme example of armor being form fitted and the supposed 'sexism' of it is only a factor for horny pre-pubescent guys.

If you get into Lineage2, you find the most drama centered MMO w/ some of the best PvP available. Nothing like killing somebody just because you can

FITZZ wrote:
And as far as "objectifying" women,I honestly belive that most people "objectify" everyone to a greater or lesser degree...the guy behind the counter at Mcdonalds isn't "John,the student who also aspires to play in a band some day" to most people...he's just the "guy at Mcdonalds".

Exactly. The problem with the 'sexualisation of women' argument is that, if you follow it to it's logical conclusion you end up with the the argument that any person, or any gender, behaving in any way that is commonly accepted as 'attractive' or 'arounsing' is therefore being turned into a sexual object.

If you argue, as previous in the thread, that Lady Gaga revealing lots of skin and singing suggestive lyrics (i.e behaving in a way which may be sexually attractive to men) therefore 'objectifies women' then you have to conclude that any media depiction of a male character behaving in a traditionally 'masculine attractive' way (i.e having big muscles, exposing his chest, protecting things, rescuing people) therefore 'objectifies men'.

Oh dear lord Sexy outer space ninjas indeed

I thought of something else too. Look at superman and supergirl. This would be sexist if supergirls powers where baking really nice cakes and keeping her hands soft while she does the washing up while wearing a frumpy apron. But instead she is a kick ass babe in a sexy outfit fighting crime just like superman is a kick ass hunk in a sexy outfit fighting crime

Because it's Hawt.

Some of the posts in here concerning those two fella's almost killed me by the way, Sid's post, well I almost forgot to breathe there for a min.


Tbh I can see where folks are coming from, but its not something that really bothers me eithereay. Hell Northrend armour in WoW is so heavy in some styles it looks like you'd need a pair of shears to get it off some of the girls. There is certainly less of the Bikini style stuff the highier in lvl you go though, I can think of one plate set that is really silly, although funny to wear, but not a lot that jumps out at me.

Orlanth wrote:
Porno plate is partial plate often without any support padding or gambeson over naked or near naked flesh. It is very common in D&D style fantasy. It is historically accurate when depicting female gladiators, and for that matter male gladiators as they were designed to look sexy too. Normally in juveleine fantasy the area protected mimics the lines of the cut of a dress often a very skimpy dress.



Here is a pretty near perfect example of the dress mimicing concept. The cryxian Witch coven are armoured not clothed yet what you see is a low line dress, crop top and sideless halterneck all known forms of limited cover summer or evening wear but not armouring. The shoulders are often bare with prono plate wheras that is the first place to armour for a real fighter, including real gladiators wearing real arena armour that is designed to arouse as much as protect.
Take a look at real gladiator armour for a second.

As much as I agreed with the rest of your post, this example doesn't support your thesis because the female models pictured above are not wearing any armor. The three casters have ARM 12, the same armor given to all of the other Cryx models that aren't wearing effective armor. Completely naked undead constructs get an ARM 12, and a model has to strap a rocket to its back or be a non-warcaster wearing cloth in order to get a lower ARM stat.

That's not porno armor because that's not armor. Whether that makes it worse or not, I don't know.

Monster Rain wrote:In closing, the more exposed She-Elf skin the better.

He has stolen the words from my heart and mind and placed them here in digital format for the world.

Why is armour in video games usually sexist?

why not?

This ceased being a serious discussion when sexism was brought into the debate

I think it was best summed up by this post

ArbitorIan wrote:

FITZZ wrote:
And as far as "objectifying" women,I honestly belive that most people "objectify" everyone to a greater or lesser degree...the guy behind the counter at Mcdonalds isn't "John,the student who also aspires to play in a band some day" to most people...he's just the "guy at Mcdonalds".

Exactly. The problem with the 'sexualisation of women' argument is that, if you follow it to it's logical conclusion you end up with the the argument that any person, or any gender, behaving in any way that is commonly accepted as 'attractive' or 'arounsing' is therefore being turned into a sexual object.

If you argue, as previous in the thread, that Lady Gaga revealing lots of skin and singing suggestive lyrics (i.e behaving in a way which may be sexually attractive to men) therefore 'objectifies women' then you have to conclude that any media depiction of a male character behaving in a traditionally 'masculine attractive' way (i.e having big muscles, exposing his chest, protecting things, rescuing people) therefore 'objectifies men'.

right on all points. But the root of the problem is that the wrong word is being used here. Objectifies definition is being twisted so severly out of proportion that it ceases to apply. Now replace the word objectify with "sexually attracted to" in most conversations and you have successfully deciphered the secret message .

It reminds me of when feminists demand that you stop thinking of them as women. Well lady unless you've had a recent sex change or you were born a hermaphrodite you ARE a women.

OT: The Discussion of Porno-plate is the least of your worries in a science fiction universe where you have Dark Eldar rape patrols, Mass murder, Xenophobia, religious heretics being murdered, Mass Brainwashing, etc.

I guess no 1 here has been fencing (sword fighting) with women, they have breats, and they need to be protected, you can just squish them, its painful for females, its onlt reasonable that the armour is designed to mould the body, and funny that there should be a bumb on the front.

Just common sense really

Rymafyr wrote:I'm an artist and the last thing I'd want is some government body or organizations telling me how I can draw a figure, male or female, so that certain aspects of the population would not get offended.

No one has said anything about government bodies or organizations telling anyone how to do anything. Isn't basic civillity reason enough to act like an adult?

The Unending wrote:It reminds me of when feminists demand that you stop thinking of them as women. Well lady unless you've had a recent sex change or you were born a hermaphrodite you ARE a women.

That hasn't happened in this thread either. If I didn't know better, I'd think you guys were arguing straw mans.

Squig=herder wrote:I guess no 1 here has been fencing (sword fighting) with women,

Actually, I have. And women's fencing uniforms are not that different from men's. And the war-torn battlefields of most fantasy and science fiction worlds are quite different from the average university gym fencing mat.


Look, I think a lot of you guys are taking this thread off in a direction that's not useful. Quit panicking about words like "objectification" or "sexism". Just look at the reaction of revulsion that near universally came out here from those guys wearing ball slingshots. That doesn't happen when screenshots from Bayonetta or X-Blades get posted.

Now, I'm not saying we can't have scanty-clad ladies in fantasy armour. Just that the adults that design these things should act like adults. So should players. In the things people wanted to change about the hobby, a huge majority of Dakkaites wanted to meet more attractive women through it. That same proportion in this thread almost sound like they resent that we're even having this conversation. I promise you people- those two phenomena are directly related.

I think there are plenty of armor that is sexist , i mean look at these guys for example:
Depicting male as 8 feet tall super humans , all muscle. Even their nipple gets their own armor.

solkan wrote:

Orlanth wrote:
Porno plate is partial plate often without any support padding or gambeson over naked or near naked flesh. It is very common in D&D style fantasy. It is historically accurate when depicting female gladiators, and for that matter male gladiators as they were designed to look sexy too. Normally in juveleine fantasy the area protected mimics the lines of the cut of a dress often a very skimpy dress.



Here is a pretty near perfect example of the dress mimicing concept. The cryxian Witch coven are armoured not clothed yet what you see is a low line dress, crop top and sideless halterneck all known forms of limited cover summer or evening wear but not armouring. The shoulders are often bare with prono plate wheras that is the first place to armour for a real fighter, including real gladiators wearing real arena armour that is designed to arouse as much as protect.
Take a look at real gladiator armour for a second.

As much as I agreed with the rest of your post, this example doesn't support your thesis because the female models pictured above are not wearing any armor. The three casters have ARM 12, the same armor given to all of the other Cryx models that aren't wearing effective armor. Completely naked undead constructs get an ARM 12, and a model has to strap a rocket to its back or be a non-warcaster wearing cloth in order to get a lower ARM stat.

That's not porno armor because that's not armor. Whether that makes it worse or not, I don't know.

Its armour alright, its just that PP realised that porno plate protects nothing and decided to stat the witches accordingly. If you look at the artwork the articulated halterneck and other attire are plate metal. I have the book but not a scan of the imagery. Page 86 of Apotheosis. Let me see if I can find a picture.....I found cosplayers with cloth versions of the Covens armour, and I found fan art (which doesnt count) but the orginal artwork is very clear its plate. So if it is clothing on account of its ARM 12 its clothing made of thick metal plates held together with rivets and screws. In fact other than some thin arm straps and a G-string, with the gusset replaced by metal plates the witches are not wearing any visible clothing at all, just metal. The miniatures are different in that they also have cloaks, omitted from the codex artwork.

If a weapon hits the plate the girls will possibly be ok, but there is no padding (common to porno plate) and wide open vitals from various common attack directions. The witch in a plate crop top is the nearest to having a chance as her armour is broadly similar to that of a secutor, but she only carries a dagger, not short sword and tower shield needed to survive that level of armouring, just too bad.


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LunaHound wrote:I think there are plenty of armor that is sexist , i mean look at these guys for example:
Depicting male as 8 feet tall super humans , all muscle. Even their nipple gets their own armor.

Armoured sixpacks and plate nipples are nothing new. The Greeks and Romans loved ornamenting cuirasses this way.


Here is the real thing.

Not much bronzework survives, but we see the style a lot from friezes mozaics and statues.

Why is armour in video games usually sexist?

Every entertainment meduim embraces sexuality in some form or another, and any or all of this could be interpreted as sexist.

Personally, I just like the titties.

Got any more pictures of breasts?...... heheyaaaawoooowaaaaabooobab!

JOHIRA wrote:

Rymafyr wrote:I'm an artist and the last thing I'd want is some government body or organizations telling me how I can draw a figure, male or female, so that certain aspects of the population would not get offended.

No one has said anything about government bodies or organizations telling anyone how to do anything. Isn't basic civillity reason enough to act like an adult?

The Unending wrote:It reminds me of when feminists demand that you stop thinking of them as women. Well lady unless you've had a recent sex change or you were born a hermaphrodite you ARE a women.

That hasn't happened in this thread either. If I didn't know better, I'd think you guys were arguing straw mans.

Squig=herder wrote:
I guess no 1 here has been fencing (sword fighting) with women,

Actually, I have. And women's fencing uniforms are not that different from men's. And the war-torn battlefields of most fantasy and science fiction worlds are quite different from the average university gym fencing mat.


Look, I think a lot of you guys are taking this thread off in a direction that's not useful. Quit panicking about words like "objectification" or "sexism". Just look at the reaction of revulsion that near universally came out here from those guys wearing ball slingshots. That doesn't happen when screenshots from Bayonetta or X-Blades get posted.

Now, I'm not saying we can't have scanty-clad ladies in fantasy armour. Just that the adults that design these things should act like adults. So should players. In the things people wanted to change about the hobby, a huge majority of Dakkaites wanted to meet more attractive women through it. That same proportion in this thread almost sound like they resent that we're even having this conversation. I promise you people- those two phenomena are directly related.

1. That was one sentence in my entire post. Even if I removed that one sentence the rest of it would still stand on its own. You have failed to address the rest of my post and singled out a weak sentence that in retrospect may have been unnecessary

2. The posts were relevant when the OP decided to say that female armor was sexist (exaggerated maybe, but sexist?)

3. Ball-Slingshot men were disgusting even by female standards the same way most men hate fat chicks in thongs. Now if you were to take a Nordic warrior covered in bear skins with an exposed chest or Fabio esque man with the typical romance nove pose with his chest hanging out and a rose in his mouth you would not get the same reaction.

4. Just because you accuse us of arguing straw men doesn't mean you aren't guilty of the same for the above reasons.

The Unending wrote:1. That was one sentence in my entire post. Even if I removed that one sentence the rest of it would still stand on its own. You have failed to address the rest of my post and singled out a weak sentence that in retrospect may have been unnecessary

Calm down. My intent here is not to say "You, The Unending, are wrrrrooooonnnnnnnggggg!!!!!", but to try and get people to keep from taking this over the top.

3. Ball-Slingshot men were disgusting even by female standards the same way most men hate fat chicks in thongs. Now if you were to take a Nordic warrior covered in bear skins with an exposed chest or Fabio esque man with the typical romance nove pose with his chest hanging out and a rose in his mouth you would not get the same reaction.

Actually, I think I would from the guys here. Just look at the Twightlight movies. Has there been nothing but support for them on Dakka?

Honestly, the media does need to grow up, but the majority will continue to be sexist and depraved and ever-craving some sight of exposed flesh to debase themselves over.


It doesn't bother me too much about the SoB... but the Sisters Repentia and Chaos Daemonettes are what I really dislike... they are blatantly pornographic, even though it is not innately sexual.
Daemonettes could still be alluring and daemonic without having to expose breasts.
Sisters Repentia don't need to be naked to be repentant and charge into combat.

This is a game that is marketed to children, just as much as adults, and there are no warning labels on these products for those miniatures and army codices.

In_Theory wrote:Honestly, the media does need to grow up, but the majority will continue to be sexist and depraved and ever-craving some sight of exposed flesh to debase themselves over.


It doesn't bother me too much about the SoB... but the Sisters Repentia and Chaos Daemonettes are what I really dislike... they are blatantly pornographic, even though it is not innately sexual.
Daemonettes could still be alluring and daemonic without having to expose breasts.
Sisters Repentia don't need to be naked to be repentant and charge into combat.

This is a game that is marketed to children, just as much as adults, and there are no warning labels on these products for those miniatures and army codices.

Meh. It's not really marketed to children though, is it? I'd say if we were going to rate it by content it would be aimed at the 12+ crowd. The subject matter is pretty mature, what with all the violence and Genocide and general bleakness of the whole thing. Again we have the interesting paradox of "Violence is okay, sex is naughty!"

I wouldn't call Sisters and Daemonettes "pornographic." There's nothing exposed on those models that you wouldn't see on say, the Venus Di'Milo.

Sexiest armour, not sexist.