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Made in us
Unshakeable Grey Knight Land Raider Pilot





Wyoming

INSTEAD... go pick up the Witch Hunters codex... get a Cannoness model. Use the cannoness as an allied HQ unit. You can legally do this. This just means that you will have only 1 HQ unit (that you must take) that is Space Marine.

Sounds cool IMO.
   
Made in ca
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine






In a Toyota, plotting revenge.

Nice fluff idea and beautifuly described. You make me anticipate more of your backround.

metallifan said: I almost wonder is "Matt Ward" another pen name for C.S. Goto?
metallifan said: The Imperium would probably love Hitler...
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Made in pe
Never Forget Isstvan!





The Netherlands

I like the fluff idea, but there are some oddities. The Adeptus Astartes are all separate chapters, not some single organization that comes together every once in a while. I think that instead of "reporting to the Adeptus Astartes", the agent could better report to the Inquisition.

Wait, perhaps the Adeptus Mechanicus would be more fitting. Every chapter has to send 5% of its geneseed to the Adeptus Mechanicus. Perhaps they have dispatched an agent to make sure that they don't become tainted during their banishment.

I doubt however that this figure would really hang around the army. Perhaps instead of making it an allied Sister of Battle you might perhaps try to include an Assassin instead? The funky wargear could represent the superior technology of the Adeptus Mechanicus.

I would also make sense to have them in there rather than the Ecclesiarchy since these two organisations (Ecclesiarchy and Adeptus Astartes) aren't the best of buddies (Emperor worship and all).

Or perhaps the agent has been dispatched by the Inquisition to report to them but also the Adeptus Mechanicus. This in itself could lead to some nice potential intrigue between the Inquisition and Adeptus Mechanicus over the fate of the Mantis Warriors.

I really dig the idea of them hunting for the Red Corsairs. Some might even wear bits of armor taken from their dead enemies (Red Corsairs, other marines who joined them, or maybe even Word Bearers).

As the Mantis Claws are going extinct (well, almost) I could also see them having primarily elite units, no new recruits would mean fewer scouts. (didnt the 3rd edition Space Wolves Codex have more elite scouts? does the new one have that too?), more elite units like Veterans. Terminator Armour would become potentially rarer due to losses and lack of resources to maintain them. Same would go for more funky technology such as Land Speeders (at least that is the argument GW has given us to why the Chaos Legions dont have them). I guess they would primarily rely on Drop Pods and Thunderhawk Gunships if they still have them. Not so much teleporting since it's not 100% reliable (which means you dont want to use that if you're running out of men).
If they are in the Maelstrom hunting for the Red Corsairs, I guess they would have to be primarily anti-armour type of marines. Lots of melta weapons (reliable and not too hard to maintain if Im not mistaken, unlike plasma weapons), lascannons, missile launchers. If your force will include Scouts they would be very specialized, this means sniper rifles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
By the way, maybe these might inspire you!

Doghouse's Mantis Warriors

Mantis Warriors article, mentions the use of blades on the arms. Also "praying mantidae" squads who hunt down the Red Corsairs. I guess they could be represented by Vanguard or assault veteran squads. Also, all marines appear to have green eyes and long black hair...

Badab War Play Aid. Unofficial rules, but it has some interesting fluff, artwork and modelling stuff which might inspire you some more!




Oh yeah, some ideas for conversions, what about adding small blades on the arms, take the spiky bits from the Dark Eldar sprue. Doghouse did it too, looks rather fitting! Another cool touch could be to remove the Imperial Eagles from the chest. Note that before the Horus Heresy only the Emperor's Children and some heroes were allowed to wear the Imperial Eagle on their chests because they were viewed as worthy. After the Heresy the Loyalists all started to wear them. Perhaps the Mantis Warriors have removed the Imperial Eagles from their chestplates to show remorse for their treason during the Badab War. Viewing themselves as unworthy of wearing the Eagle until they have fully redeemed themselves.

By the way...please make them true scale? Like Migsula's Legion!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah, you mentioned corrupted Mantis Warriors...check this out!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/04/19 04:48:23


The Wars of Tusculum Nova - A Vanguard Miniatures fanblog 
   
Made in nz
Nurgle Chosen Marine on a Palanquin






Whangarei , New Zealand

I agree with grey knight luke , run the cannoness as an allied witchhunter, it will avoid problems when you play "official games".

I like Malika's idea about the dark eldar blades on the edge of the forearm, it would be a simple and effective way to tie the models into the manits theme without adding a custom "insectoid" head and wouldn't need a special rule to explain. Or you could cut the teeth off a chainsword and mount them on the arms with the "engine" stuck to the elbow, gettin a bit complicated there though.

Also perhaps they could all fight with reversed power and chain swords? then their arms would resemble the double backed arms of a mantis

Regardless I like the idea of a canoness being a plant for the inquisition.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/04/19 07:43:40


 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I tend to glue metal models with a combination of BSI cyanoacrylate and my tears of frustration.
 
   
Made in gb
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Mostly, on my phone.

Another faily quick and easy way to do mandibles could be using bits off Tyranid sprues: was rummaging through junk sprues at Conflict and thought of your project.

Yellowbeard: "Shop 'smart', shop Graven-mart!"
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Gitzkrieg Kommanda






Madison, WI

Malika: Really like your ideas, and you're right... I'm probably using "Adeptus Astartes" incorrectly when I really mean the Inquisition. But some governing body must have issued the original punishment, and they would be the ones to recind it. No matter the part of the Administratum to do it... it does make sense to me that the "agents" involved would be from the Ecclesiarchy, especially given the fluff I refer to in the beginning of my post (which was not my invention, but something GW came up with many years ago). The fact that the Ecclesiarhy and AA don't particularly get along is probably a better fit for this particular job, because you wouldn't want any sympathy to develop between paroll officer and the parollee...

I like the mechanicus angle... and was planning on having a greatly elevated techmarine role in the chapter (next major post I'll explain), let me think about it and see what I can come up with. I haven't had a chance to check out the links you sent, but I will before my next major post. Looking forward to seeing what other people have done & hope it will provide some good ideas and inspiration.

I'll look into the allied witchhunter command thing... didn't know I could do that. Would LOVE to have her there "officially".

The double (reversed) chainsword idea is a great one, and instincitive... I thought about that almost immediately, and several people have also mentioned it. While I'm sure I can do the conversion... there are some options to kick around, but I'd rather discuss that when we actally get to the army structure, force organization and units selection and design. That's coming (fairly quickly... only one or two "background" posts left), but I want to sort out some of the errata before we get into the "meat" of the chapter.

The blades on the forearms sound like a very interesting idea... when I get into a position to mess with my models again I'll have to do some experimenting. Just don't want them to end up looking like dark eldar wannabees. Funny thing is that a real praying mantis doesn't really have noticable mandibles, they're incorporated into it's regular mouth parts so you can't even see them unless it's eating... but I get the idea and it is a cool concept. There are kind of spiky bits (serrations) on the limbs of many mantids... The chainsword blade idea has merit. I've got a good selection of fine tools (used to be a jeweler of sorts), so I think I could handle the conversion. Though I might put them on the legs and arms both as this would be a more natural arrangment. Lord I'm going to need a boat-load of chainswords...

I really like the idea of true scale marines... just dont know if I can afford the many extra bits... though my first conversions might be close because of the legs I used... (they're about as tall kneeling down as a Black Reach marine is standing up). I'll have to re-read the true scale stuff and give it some thought.

   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut






Nice discussion going on and definitely adds to expectations!

For extremely nicely painted bright green marines, Grey Death's marine blog here at dakka is a great reference.



“Of the fabulous hydra it is said, cut off one head and two will grow in its place”

- antique proverb

LEGION of PLASTIC blog 
   
Made in pe
Never Forget Isstvan!





The Netherlands

The blades on the forearms sound like a very interesting idea... when I get into a position to mess with my models again I'll have to do some experimenting. Just don't want them to end up looking like dark eldar wannabees.

It's just some small blades, it's quite subtle, I mean...check this picture.

I really like the idea of true scale marines... just dont know if I can afford the many extra bits... though my first conversions might be close because of the legs I used... (they're about as tall kneeling down as a Black Reach marine is standing up). I'll have to re-read the true scale stuff and give it some thought.

You need Terminator models, maybe try to get them off eBay or something?

Don't make them brightly green, perhaps a slightly darker colour, add light damage to the armour here and there, maybe some looted equipment (which may or may not be repainted in the MW scheme), but it would be cool to see some very different armour patters mixted up. One shoulderpad looted from Chaos, another one an Mk3, Mk7 chestplast, Mk5 legs, etc. Maybe even some marines with bare arms (kind of like Kharn the Betrayer).

The Wars of Tusculum Nova - A Vanguard Miniatures fanblog 
   
Made in gb
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






Mostly, on my phone.

I agree with Malika2 on toning back the colour palette. Maybe a sort of classic Boba Fett, muted, scratched and damaged.

Yellowbeard: "Shop 'smart', shop Graven-mart!"
Casey's Law: "Graven: Speaking the truth and providing the rofls since '09."
Solar_Lion: "Deep in the bowels of a forge world lies a machine so terrible and purposeful that its very existence is only rumor and myth. It never sleeps and always hungers. Never satiated. Always creating, always churning out more and more. Never satisfied. It’s purpose long forgotten. It only lives to build more and more of the truly insane. The Deus ex Gravenator. Your only hope is to die in your sleep so save the last bullet for you!"
cormadepanda: "You suffer from creator syndrome."
Theophony"... and there's strippers in terminator armor and lovecraftian shenanigans afoot." Solar_Lion: "Man this sums up your blog nicely."
Anpu-adom: "being Geek is about Love. Some love broadly. Some love deeply. And then there are people like Graven.
 
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!





Green Bay, Wisconson

I love the thought process you have generated.

Just because they are on a crusade and lost their home world doesn't mean they are truly without resources. Things I'd look at are raw materials and support, They must have transportation and ships which contain facilities and manufacturing. Add that many historical armies devoted a lot of resources to scavenging. I’d look to make them reflect their desire to look more like their glory days. If resources are scarce they make do with what they can find.
How to make it look… have varying types of power armor, different looks of the same weapon. As for battle damage; perhaps some of the big stuff, or stuff that would be more rare or harder to repair or find parts. The reason I say this that they are élite warriors and they would take the utmost pride in their equipment when available.
Being used as the surgical knife of the Empire, they are more than capable of hit and run targets of value. Even if that target is material. Skill and deception need to replace brute force and power. Camouflage, snipers, fully armored scouts, fast and deadly. The Mantis is a patient killer – disguise with lethal precision.
Support is more difficult. I would guess that the majority of marines not killed in battle are capable of living out the hundred years. The human support element of the chapter most likely would not, so I’d go with more mechanical support – like servitors and automation. Innovation is spurred with change.
Replacement is harder, but missions and targets of opportunity can be chosen to minimize causalities. Tough units in combat zone scan remain in the field for long time with the right training. Because they can’t recruit; those that live the 100 years are probably the toughest SOB (not sisters of battle) or the luckiest of them. Maybe all the troop choices are veteran status. They would all live to restore their honor but have to be calculated enough to adjust their tactics to make it happen otherwise the chapter is for naught.
Whatever you decide remember they are foremost Space Marines and seek to restore their name. Thus they will try harder.
My 2 cents



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and the earlier codex that shows them changing the color of their armor to fit their mission. what better example!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/04/19 21:24:38


 
   
Made in pe
Never Forget Isstvan!





The Netherlands

Include a higher number of veterans in your force to represent the fact that they're all so tough as hell. The troops could be filled with two units of scouts with snipers.

The Wars of Tusculum Nova - A Vanguard Miniatures fanblog 
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps





Earlobe deep in doo doo

Theres some nifty stuff for the Mantis Warriors here http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2008/07/bols-mini-dex-downloads-archive.html it's probably what Malika linked already however. Personally I thought that most of the rebels after the Badab War were sent bug hunting and ran almost straight down the maw of Leviathan, I know thats what happened to the Lamenters. I'd personally steer clear from using chaos bits myself. I'd also consider using Telion and Sternguard as they seem to fit the silent sniper stereotype the best of the Power armoured troops. I'd also consider toning down the battle damage remember these are holy relics as well as weapons and the last thing a penitent should do is profane his sacred symbol of the Emperors might the blessed Bolter.....In medieavel history the colour of Tan was often used to represent penitence. Hope that helps. Grey Deaths also doing a big Badab war blog on Dakka as well which might help.

"But me no buts! Our comrades get hurt. Our friends die. Falkenburg is a knight who swore an oath to serve the church and to defend the weak. He'd be the first to tell you to stop puling and start planning. Because what we are doing-at risk to ourselves-is what we have sworn to do. The West relies on us. It is a risk we take with pride. It is an oath we honour. Even when some soft southern burgher mutters about us, we know the reason he sleeps soft and comfortable, why his wife is able to complain about the price of cabbages as her most serious problem and why his children dare to throw dung and yell "Knot" when we pass. It's because we are what we are. For all our faults we stand for law and light.
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2017 Model Count-71
 
   
Made in us
Unshakeable Grey Knight Land Raider Pilot





Wyoming

As some of these guys were talking it reminded me of how the Black Templars operate, they have no homeworld (although they can recruit) and they have a flagship, which provides much of the resources that are needed. Maybe the Mantis Warriors work like that (as others have said). I was just trying to point out that Space Marines HAVE done it.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Gitzkrieg Kommanda






Madison, WI

Darn it you guys are spoiling all my best ideas!!! Cut it out!

*grin*

One last "set up" post.... then we start sinking our teeth into the chapter proper. Keep the ideas coming, they're wonderful... but I'm not quite ready to address most of them just yet.

There is one other component that I think would be necessary for a chapter to develop in order to survive this kind of ordeal... that is that they would have to become extremely resourceful and experts at saving men and machines. To survive, they would excel at stopping the forces of attrition and wear. No casualties would be "acceptible losses", no machinery could be abandoned on the battlefield, equipment that was no longer vital would be adapted to other uses. Of course there would be casualties and lost equipment, but I think the Mantis Warriors would become more adept at healing the wounded, fixing or modifying machinery and developing tactics that eschewed open battles or prolonged engaugements than a normal chapter would ever need to be. I imagine that each squad would have one member that was trained as an apothecary (medic), and one as a techmarine... so immediate battlefield triage of men a machinery could take place as needed. Much like a medic in a modern military system is a stop-gap between the wounded solder and the doctor or surgeon, the specialist troopers serve to insure the casualty (man or machine) survies to receive the attention of the full apothecary of techmarine. In game terms this wouldn't matter much, though if a command squad was chosen, I would say upgrading one to an apothecary would be mandatory... and taking techmarines, MoTF, etc would be a preferred HQ or elite choice. In modeling terms, I would denote the specialists in each unit by giving one marine an apothecary shoulder pad and one a techmarine's shoulder pad.

Now this is where things get a bit dicey from a herasy perspective. I would think that the mantis warriors would have had to develop some kind of real engineering skills in order to maintain, modify and re-purpose the machinery they had. Not just follow the standard templates, say a prayer over the thing and hope for the best... but be able to take that irrevocably crippled husk of a predator, salvage what bits the could from it, and use them to modify, improve or maintain the rest of their equipment. No big deal for we 21st c. people... but I think it would have been a huge deal for marines steeped in ritual, superstition, zealous faith and ignorance. I don't have any real plan for representing this in the game (though it does tie in with another point we'll discuss down-the-line), but it does seem like an important factor... and worth mentioning.

Special Rules:
While I'm not going to use any special rules with my Mantis Warriors, I have thought about it from time to time... and will mention my ideas as appropriate. I tend to favor minor, subtle effects that are more fluff than "super-powers"... but still add to the flavor of the chapter.

"The Watchful Eye" - As they know they are being directly scrutinized by the cannoness, any MW units within 12" of the cannoness get to re-roll any failed leadership tests.
"Masters of Recovery" - After any battle where "kill points" are counted, the superior medical and technical triage capabilities of the Mantis Warriors allow them to "save" one infantry unit and one vehicle or vehicle squadron, removing those kill points from the opponents total. This effect may not be used to keep a destroyed unit or vehicle on the battlefield as the benefit of the expertise is not evident until after the battle's end.

I apologize if my argument isn't a cogent as usual... it's been a long day.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/04/20 03:48:52


   
Made in us
Unshakeable Grey Knight Land Raider Pilot





Wyoming

You NEED to pick up the witch hunters codex. I know that the cannoness has faith points which she can use to do all sorts of special "faithy" things.

OR (mods delete if it happens to be outside of the realm of acceptable web talk)
go to scribd.com in the search box type in warhammer 40k witch hunters codex, and you will be able to view the witch hunters dex for the purpose of later purchasing. In no way would this be an appropriate substitute for the book. Because we need to pay for things that Games Workshop distributes to us. We don't ever want to use information freely available to us.
   
Made in gb
Screaming Shining Spear






Bedfordshire, UK

The only other non-Codex troops mentioned are the elite 'praying mantidae'. This elite cadre are selected from the most driven and pious members of the chapter and live for the sole purpose of hunting the Red Corsairs in order to bring honour back to the chapter. They are recognisable by snake-like tattoos covering their body, extending high up their necks.

Though a successor chapter, Mantis Warrior gene-seed is unusual and is rumoured to allow the Mantis Warriors to enter a haze-like state in which the warrior's perception of space and time are slowed down, allowing him to react and fight at an accelerated speed. This battle haze is a permanent state and the marine is caught in it until he dies. Their melee combat is also helped by the notched adamantine blades attached to the lower arm armour.


That sounds like the Blood Angels right there! :-D

   
Made in is
Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit




Iceland

Your sons thread is amazing, and so is this one alreadt

   
Made in us
[DCM]
Gitzkrieg Kommanda






Madison, WI


Though a successor chapter, Mantis Warrior gene-seed is unusual and is rumoured to allow the Mantis Warriors to enter a haze-like state in which the warrior's perception of space and time are slowed down, allowing him to react and fight at an accelerated speed. This battle haze is a permanent state and the marine is caught in it until he dies.


I'll be honest with you... this makes NO military sense at all, and would have been excised from the gene-seed as a "lethal mutation".


Try this slight modification instead...

Though a successor chapter, Mantis Warrior gene-seed is unusual and is rumored to allow the Mantis Warriors to enter into a haze-like state in which the warrior's perception of space and time are slowed down, alowing him to react at greatly accelerated speed. In game terms, if a Mantis Warrior receives a charge after a turn in which he did not move, the Mantis Warrior will always strike first, regardless of the relative initiatives involved. While in this quiescent state, distracting techniques such as the use of banshee masks or frag grenades have no effect, though physically massive weapons such as power fists still retain their effect on initiative.

   
Made in gb
Screaming Shining Spear






Bedfordshire, UK

Well actually I was thinking you could use it for counts-as Death Company, considering it sounds an awful lot like the Black Rage, which in turn makes NO military sense at all.

Don't get all sciency about it, becuase fusing together a man's ribcage makes no logical sense either, but it's awesome so who cares.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/04/20 15:45:47


   
Made in gb
Death-Dealing Dark Angels Devastator





I reckon the Mantis Warriors would....

A: As someone said before scavenge materials everything they have is taken from another source mainly traitor armour that has been reconsecrated the icons removed I wouldnt believe that the Chapter would have a colour scheme more that they would look really archaic I should imagine that they would also wear terror markings their armour would also be dented and smashed scratched as well.

B: No vehicles they have been living on their feet in the penitence crusade they upped and left leaving the armour behind however they would make extensive use of devestators these would have massively archaic weaponary such as heavy bolters and weird combi weapons

C: No or very little access to the first company i.e one experienced squad that forfills the role of Veteran and Terminator squad they are almost like ghostly legendary warriors very battle worn and scarred loads of trophys their Terminator armour would have plates and rivets very hastenly repaired they would also have access to arcane weaponary found within the Maelstrom.

I hope this helps just a few ideas bashed out...
   
Made in us
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Gitzkrieg Kommanda






Madison, WI

Tek,

no offense intended... I appreciate your thoughts. Just seemed like a good opportunity to suggest an alternate approach. Sorry if my post was inelegant. And your last point is very well taken...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/04/20 16:16:11


   
Made in us
[DCM]
Gitzkrieg Kommanda






Madison, WI

Afternoon all.

One thing I'd like to remind everyone of up front, is that unlike most other chapters... the Mantis Warriors have undergone tremendous change over the last 100 or so years, and what the army would look like would vary tremendously depending on what stage of "the ordeal" you chose to represent. Badab War, Crusade, Return, Early Recovery and Late Recovery armies would all have consistent themes, but would look, play and feel very different. All are equally valid, they just represent different incarnations of the chapter. Many of the great suggestions are not fully appropriate for the stage I have chosen to portray (Early Recovery), being more focused on the Crusade or Return stages. That being said... elements or themes from those suggestions can be carried over into my version of the Mantis Warriors.

Before beginning the first real discussion of what the army should look like and what general theory of battle they would employ... I reviewed the whole blog from start to finish, writing down ideas that I thought worked well together, and worked with my existing ideas. I'll be the first to admit that some of these are going to make life tough (no psychers... Waaaaaaah!), BUT... they make loads of sense, and I love a challenge. I'm not going to try to cite the posters... but here is a synopsis of my notes (more like bullet points).

reliance on drop pods
gurilla tactics
avoid pitched battles
move fast, mobile, nimble
no psychers
skill & deception vs. brute force
snipers, armored scouts
lots of veterans
telion, sternguard
no vehicles, living on their feet
limited first company

The Crusade

My thought has been that the pursuit of the Astral Claws by the Mantis Warriors would be a prolonged, viscious, deeply personal, high-stakes game of cat and mouse played out amongst the remote worlds, airless moons, asteroid belts and shattered planetoids at the outskirts of the maelstrom. The AC's trying to get to a large, safe-haven in the depths of the chaotc reaches of space... and the Mantis Warriors constantly harassing them, probing, sabotoging, cutting off fuel and supply lines, blocking their advance, crippeling potential chaotic allies with percision strikes from the depths of space. With steath, guile and the careful application of overwhelming force preventing their adversaries from joining with other chaos legions or forming alliances that would render the Crusade impossible... dooming the Mantis Warriors to be forever outcasts.

Like their namesake, they would sit still and quiet, invisible and motionless in the inky blackness of deep space until the time came to strike with incredible speed and fury to deal the death blow. No bases or fortresses would be their home, nothing to hold them down or give the forces of chaos a place to strike. They would live from their ships, harrying the Astral Claws, raiding to get supplies, and punnishing any who offered the Claws assistace... until the Astral Claws themselve's would become a pariah to their own kind. The Astral Claws would be shunned because to treat with them would be to invite disaster at the nearly invisible hands of the Mantis Warriors. All this would further hamper the AC's attempts to find safe haven and escape their doom.

As such, every unit in the Mantis Warrior army must be capable of either deep striking, teleporting or coming down in a drop pod. All wheeled or tracked vehicles would have been mothballed. Eventually... as materials & supplies dwindled... the vehicle's physical forms and machine spirits were consecrated and re-purposed to those uses better fitting the Chapter's new motus-operendi. Planetfall would become their way of life. Appear suddenly and with overwhelming force, strike a crippling blow, scavenge whatever they can and disappear into the inky blackness of space before any coordinated defense can be mounted.

So many of these battles took place in deep space or airless, dead rocks that at first the loss of their scouting class was hardly noticible. The fully armored veteran snipers of the Tranquility campaign took care of most of the scouting and assasination duties and the scout-trainees eventually filled the ranks of the tactical squads as normal battle brothers. Time went on... and in spite of all the efforts of the chapter to minimize losses by improving their asset recovery and only enguage when they had overwhelming force supieriority... the losses mounted. Worst hit were the front-line assault troops and the venerated first company, who did most of the heavy lifting for the chapter. Men died. Other men were transferred from tactical operations to these units to fill the ranks most needed... and as the men "filtered forward" through the system into these most needed, and most valuable roles... the lack of new recruits manifested itself over time in an almost total absence of tactical marines. The tactical center of the chapter had been siphoned off to feed the slow but steady losses incurred by the assault troops and the hallowed veterans in their tactical dreadnought armor. What remained was probably the single most deadly strike force in the history of mankind... an entire chapter of elite veterans focused on a single goal, a single way of battle... but totally incapable of holding ground against any concerted assult. There was "attack" and "withdraw"... but the wherewithall to "defend" had been nearly lost to them.

With the Chapter's "center" depleated, it was only a matter of time before the outer shell, no matter how elite... crumbled. It was at this juncture, the very brink of oblivion... that the Emperor's forgiveness was finally granted... and the Mantis Warriors were called home.

-finis-

*whew* That's it for now... my brain's fried. I didn't really intend to write any fluff but it just kinda came out. Guess we'll have to talk shop later on and sort this all out in game terms. I like it though... a bit heroic... a bit over-the-top... just the way it should be for space marines. Still a lot of things on my list that this doesn't cover... but we can save that for later. Best - GS

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/04/20 21:55:07


   
Made in pe
Never Forget Isstvan!





The Netherlands

So you will model power armoured snipers and such? What about the rules though?

The Wars of Tusculum Nova - A Vanguard Miniatures fanblog 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Gitzkrieg Kommanda






Madison, WI

Sternguard... they're perfect for it. Not true scouts but the truest representation of the Tranquility snipers I'll ever find, veterans too... so it's a close-to-perfect fit. I have my first 4 "experimental" conversions in-process. I was resisting the urge to post a pic until I was really in a position to mess with my figures... but I'll relent since I already have a pic in my gallery.

First, one of the guns... thought a "sniping" bolt gun should be a little more "snipy looking" and since I don't really buy that just changing ammo can increase performance as drastically as GW indicates, I decided to fiddle with the guns for my Sternguard/Tranquilty Snipers a bit.



And here are my first 4 conversion attempts for the Sternguard/Tranquility Snipers. They are not complete... just the basics to see if my ideas would work. The two in the center were by far the hardest to do, but I think are also the best looking.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/04/20 22:25:37


   
Made in us
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine






Indianapolis

One thing I think would fit into your "fluff" that you could show in your army list is that the Mantis Warriors would most likely use only the most reliable of weapons. I wouldn't see them fielding things like plasma weapons much at all. If your Mantis Warriors were going to be great at scavenging, have you thought about putting small hitches or cranes, or other mechanical devices on what remaining tanks you plan on fielding?

I think the idea of having no scouts and minimal tactical squads would definitely fit the Mantis Warrior back ground.

I am not sure how you would fit this into an actual game, but from a fluff stand point I wonder if the Mantis Warriors would field more servitors just to have added guns on the field. They wouldn't be used for your surgical strikes or fast attacks, but it would certainly seem that they would use them for defense set ups to represent that the real back bone of the army is out and about while a smaller unit backed with servitors would hold positions, just a thought.


   
Made in pe
Never Forget Isstvan!





The Netherlands

What will you be using for heavy support though? Devastators?

The Wars of Tusculum Nova - A Vanguard Miniatures fanblog 
   
Made in us
Unshakeable Grey Knight Land Raider Pilot





Wyoming

Alright. So I know you are either going to probably hate me for this, but when exactly would this be? I know that we are mild fluffbots talking about this and we might just say it doesn't matter but, wouldnt you have to use mainly the earlier armor types? It just came to me when you were posted the snipers.
   
Made in pe
Never Forget Isstvan!





The Netherlands

Why earlier armour types? The earlier armour types were more common during the Great Crusade and Horus Heresy. Afterwards you will mostly see Mk7 armour. The older suits are considered to be holy relics of a sorts because they originate from that olden time, eventhough the Mk7 suit would still be superior.

The Wars of Tusculum Nova - A Vanguard Miniatures fanblog 
   
Made in us
Unshakeable Grey Knight Land Raider Pilot





Wyoming

oh ok. well I guess I am mistaken.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Gitzkrieg Kommanda






Madison, WI

Uugh... need more coffee....

Keep in mind that the fluff up there only takes you up to the "Return" stage of the chapter's history, i.e. what they would have looked like the when they first straggled back into Imperial space. The stage I am interested in is "Early Rebuilding", several years down the line when some of the most critical needs would have begun to be addressed, but the crusading charachter of the army would still dominate.

Heavy support would come in the way of dreadnoughts, with MoTF to field as heavies, thunderfire cannons, multi-meltas on land-speeders and dev's. Plenty to work from there. I've been fielding vehicle-less armies for years and never really missed them until 5th Ed came out with rules that are so slanted towards them. However, I believe that nearly any build can be mid-level competative if you think it through and play it correctly. Fire support dreds can be probelmatic for an opponent with their ability to move and fire, use cover and "disappear" behind a relatively small piece of sight-blocking terrain. They also look great on the tabletop.

The question for me during the recovery is: would the Mantis Warriors be in a huge rush to be what they were before the start of the crusade, or would they embrace their new military philosophy and simply use their new assets to shore up their ranks and equipment? At this point I'm leaning toward the second option as they would realize how good they had become in their particular role, they would have seen their successes... they just ran out of men and materials.

So what would an early recovery period MW army look like?

Here are some of my ideas. I welcome as aways your comments and suggestions. Believe it or not my thoughts on aspects of this have changed quite a bit based on the feedback I've gotten already, so I appreciate the effort folks are putting in... though I get the feeling I've lost a lot of people by perhaps taking things in a different direction than they would have. But I'll keep soldiering on until it looks like I'm just blogging to myself.

HQ: I think I'll table this for now. While HQ is important... it's not really a rebuilding thing, besides we've already discussed some ideas so I'll leave this go for now.

(I don't have a codex at the moment so I'm doing this from memory, please forgive if I omit or misstate something.)

Elites
Dreadnoughts: Close support for assaut and tactical squads, typically drop pod deployed. Venerables, Iron Clads, maybe the FW chaplain dread for fun... any dreadnoughts that survived in this particular role in the army would be gods of battle. Heavily damaged, highly decorated... keeping these old boys going might be where you'd really see some serious application of scavenged chaos parts.
Techmarines: As previously discussed, these would play a vital role in keeping he chapter alive and kicking.
Sternguard: These guys are my Tranquility Snipers and one of the signature units of the army. Old armor, old style equipment, lots of purity seals and terminator honors. Because of their "sniper" role, I see their Mk 6 armor as being largely in-tact... though worn and battle-scarred.
Terminators: These are one of the troop types that in my mind would have been badly depleated during the crusade. Both men and armor would have been lost, and many of the losses would have been catostrophic and irrecoverable (high-energy weapons that would have completely destroyed the marine and his armor, like meltas, etc.). My thoughts at the moment are to have a few terminators in the older style armor, badly damaged, scarred and/or repaired, representing the few surviving original suits. The rest of the marines would be in new armor provided by the imperium to make the squads viable again. Because of the near all-veteran status of the surviving chapter, finding men worthy of filling these suits of armor would not be difficult.

Troops
Tactical Squads: As stated in the fluff there aren't many of these guys left in the role of tactical marines... most filtered through the system long ago to accept more vital responsibilities given the chapter's modified tactics, or replaced casualites. Those few that are left probably have equipment that is in decent shape, though scarred and worn. You might see some interesting field repairs or use of scavenged equipment in this lot.
Scouts: An early recovery MW army would be crawling with scouts. Probably 1/2 to 3/4 of any troop deployment should be scouts of one sort or another. Because they were monitoring them, the Imperium would have known well in advance that the Mantis Warriors would return, and they'd have known what shape the chapter would be in. They would have had to make some accomodation for an emergency recruitment of suitable marine stock. I don't have a clear idea for this, but there are several options.. give the MW's back their home world, find a suitable feral world with a human population they can use, who knows? Any ideas about this would be most welcome. I would think that the chapter would have plenty of scout equipment in perfect shape (since it hadn't been used in nearly a century), unless it had been scavenged for other purposes (like my Sternguard rifle conversions for example).

Fast Attack
Vanguard Assault Squad: The MW assault squads would have suffered the same fate as it's terminators, as they were heavily used throughout the Crusade and pivotal to the success of the new battle strategy. At the time of The Return, most of the assault suits had been lost, what was left... was here. This is another "signature unit" for the army, though it does not have the official history of the Tranquility snipers. The best shock troops in an army that exemplifies this battle tactic. Their eqipment is original... venerated, scarred to the point of near disfunction & repaired with the armor of their victims. Armed with special weaponry that mimics the arms of the praying mantis... conversion and modeling possibilities are endless.
Assault Squads: Very few original assault configuration armor suits survive in the Mantis Warriors outside of the Vanguard. With a very few exceptions, mantis warrior assault squads have been provided with brand new armor. They fight with less powerful versions of the "mantis arms" used by the Vanguard, but are still fast and deadly as one would expect of any assault marine.
Land Speeder Tempests: Outflanking transports to support scouting operations and pop opposing, rearward deployed heavy support.
Land Speeders: In the Mantis scheme Multi-melta armed LS squadrons are critical in evening the balance of battle by eliminating the oppositions heavy armor.
Bikes: This'll be a fun one. I have been carefully hoarding 5-7 OLD space marine jet bikes for like.... 18 years. They're unpainted & in bits. They fit the fluff (being that a jet bike could reasonably deep-strike, and the MW's increased engeneering abilities and frequent contact with eldar Crone world forces could have allowed them to figure out how to re-activate the ancient technology). To be consistent with the rules I'll just use them as regular bikes, and will probably build two sets of riders for them... one full marine, one scout. For those of you who have never seen them... imagine a space marine riding a Vespa and you've pretty much got the mental image. Somewhere I think I even have one of the tiny, orignal land speeders that I'll field along with them as an attack bike.

Heavy Support
Dreadnought - Fire Support Configuration: Provided by MoTF in this role, TL Lascannons & RLs. Though certainly scarred from battle... my thinking is that these will be in generally better shape than the close-support models and that normal dreadnoughts will suffice. Always lots of good options for fun conversions and stuff with the dreds... so we'll see how things go when we get there.
Thunderfire Cannon: Dropable, tech marine supported... gives them a little blast template action. They remind me of some of the old 40k stuff that's not around any more... so I think the "feel" is right.
Devastators: I'll be honest, I've never really used dev's much... guess I'd better figure it out darn quick considering my limited options in this part of the FOA. Anyone up to writing some good fluff or suggesting a focus for them? I got nothin' at the moment...






   
 
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