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And now you lot've got a Changer of Ways in the Oval Office...

You just -gotta- keep fething yourselves over, don't you?

totaly behind the kennedy assination.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
totaly behind the kennedy assination.

The Galaxy will consumed by the Great Devourer...and at this point there will only be one thing left to purge them...the Necrons.

There is only one psychic force stronger than the Hive mind and it is that of the C'tan...

When the Devourer is full and it becomes a war of attrition I believe the Necrons will win out.

Which saddens me because I love the bugs.

ductvader wrote:The Galaxy will consumed by the Great Devourer...and at this point there will only be one thing left to purge them...the Necrons.

There is only one psychic force stronger than the Hive mind and it is that of the C'tan...

When the Devourer is full and it becomes a war of attrition I believe the Necrons will win out.

Which saddens me because I love the bugs.

Eh?

The C'tan arnt psychic... they dispise the warp with every fibre of their beings.

No, nee, nein.

Necrons could ultimatly do hit and run tactics on Tyranids to bleed them slowly.It says in the Battlefleet Gothic that Necrons choose when to disengage from the battle.

Did i make it not clear enough? The C'tan are the antithesis of the warp, they hate the immaterium, their entire goal at the current time is to permanently separate the real world from the warp

IvanTih wrote:Necrons could ultimatly do hit and run tactics on Tyranids to bleed them slowly.It says in the Battlefleet Gothic that Necrons choose when to disengage from the battle.

This is true, but equally Tyranid ships are very hard to really damage, rapidly heal themselves and calf whenever they are attacked/eat something (from BFG & various Tyranid sources). The Necrons are in all probability going to have to stick around for a time to inflict any real damage on the Tyranids, and that is what plays into the Tyranids' hands... eh, claws. There's no point in the Necrons jumping on a Tyranid Hive Fleet, frying a couple of drones and scorching the carapace of a Hive Ship if those Drones are replaced within hours and the Carapace heals over.

Honestly, if it came right down to Tyranids versus Necrons, the Necrons might well simply go back to bed - why would they fight for a barren, empty galaxy? Once the Tyranids have scoured life from the galaxy and moved on, the universe will start to churn out more life sooner or later, and the Necrons can be there to harvest it.

The 'nids aren't warp-based, according to the codex. The necrons hate the warp. Read either the physic powers section (pg. 55) or the 'nid rules (pg. 33), or somewhere else.

could it be that the necrons hate the warp but not thier gods? they'd hate the warp because they ignored it and turned into machines or something?

or could GW be making another stand off of natures.

tyranids VS necrons who will win!
as an all out brall. even if the tyranids have nothing to gain from it but harvesting the souls from the necrons as the doom of malantai does.

Klawz wrote:The 'nids aren't warp-based, according to the codex. The necrons hate the warp. Read either the physic powers section (pg. 55) or the 'nid rules (pg. 33), or somewhere else.

Common misconception. The Tyranids *are* a Warp-based race. They don't travel through it, but they are all psychic, and the "power of the Hive Mind" channeled by Zoanthropes, Synapse creatures etc flows from the Warp, and their collective psychic presence within the Warp causes such an overload that the Shadow precedes their advance (see pages 44, 62 of Codex: Tyranids). They do not "draw power" from the Warp in the same way that a Librarian "summons the power of the Warp" (the power to do what they do is borrowed from their Synaptic web), but the actual essence of what a Zoanthrope hurls at a tank, or the medium by which a Tyrant issues its commands is the Warp never the less.

A crude analogy would be a Librarian and a Zoanthrope attacking something with water (representing the Warp). The Librarian opens a rip in the universe above the target, and water drops out onto said target, getting it all cold, wet and generally unpleasant. The Zoanthrope and his buddies (who are actually enjoying a conversation about the weather by blowing bubbles at each other through the water) are able to use their bubbles to spray water at the target. Same effect, different means of doing it.

amen

love the analogy.

Xyptc wrote:

Klawz wrote:The 'nids aren't warp-based, according to the codex. The necrons hate the warp. Read either the physic powers section (pg. 55) or the 'nid rules (pg. 33), or somewhere else.

Common misconception. The Tyranids *are* a Warp-based race. They don't travel through it, but they are all psychic, and the "power of the Hive Mind" channeled by Zoanthropes, Synapse creatures etc flows from the Warp, and their collective psychic presence within the Warp causes such an overload that the Shadow precedes their advance (see pages 44, 62 of Codex: Tyranids). They do not "draw power" from the Warp in the same way that a Librarian "summons the power of the Warp" (the power to do what they do is borrowed from their Synaptic web), but the actual essence of what a Zoanthrope hurls at a tank, or the medium by which a Tyrant issues its commands is the Warp never the less.

A crude analogy would be a Librarian and a Zoanthrope attacking something with water (representing the Warp). The Librarian opens a rip in the universe above the target, and water drops out onto said target, getting it all cold, wet and generally unpleasant. The Zoanthrope and his buddies (who are actually enjoying a conversation about the weather by blowing bubbles at each other through the water) are able to use their bubbles to spray water at the target. Same effect, different means of doing it.

Tyranid Codex, page 33 wrote:Many tyranid creatures are also psykers. They do not draw their power from the warp in any fathomable way, but rather harness a fraction of the hive mind's gestalt will.

EDIT: Whoops, misread.

Klawz wrote:

Xyptc wrote:

Klawz wrote:The 'nids aren't warp-based, according to the codex. The necrons hate the warp. Read either the physic powers section (pg. 55) or the 'nid rules (pg. 33), or somewhere else.

Common misconception. The Tyranids *are* a Warp-based race. They don't travel through it, but they are all psychic, and the "power of the Hive Mind" channeled by Zoanthropes, Synapse creatures etc flows from the Warp, and their collective psychic presence within the Warp causes such an overload that the Shadow precedes their advance (see pages 44, 62 of Codex: Tyranids). They do not "draw power" from the Warp in the same way that a Librarian "summons the power of the Warp" (the power to do what they do is borrowed from their Synaptic web), but the actual essence of what a Zoanthrope hurls at a tank, or the medium by which a Tyrant issues its commands is the Warp never the less.

A crude analogy would be a Librarian and a Zoanthrope attacking something with water (representing the Warp). The Librarian opens a rip in the universe above the target, and water drops out onto said target, getting it all cold, wet and generally unpleasant. The Zoanthrope and his buddies (who are actually enjoying a conversation about the weather by blowing bubbles at each other through the water) are able to use their bubbles to spray water at the target. Same effect, different means of doing it.

Tyranid Codex, page 33 wrote:Many tyranid creatures are also psykers. They do not draw their power from the warp in any fathomable way, but rather harness a fraction of the hive mind's gestalt will.

EDIT: Whoops, misread.

Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me by quoting that?

If you plan to rely on "do not draw their power from the Warp in any fathomable way" as a means of saying Tyranids aren't Warp-based, I remind you that that sentence is preceded by "Tyranids are also psykers", and that "the Hive Mind's gestalt will" is composed of the minds of the "highly psychic" Tyranids. There can be no question that the Tyranids "use" the Warp. The confusion seems to arise from the further detail, which is essentially that instead of simply drawing on the untamed, roiling energies of the Warp as the psykers native to our galaxy do, the Tyranids draw on their own massive, co-ordinated Warp-presence (i.e. their Hive Mind) to power their abilities. Their power to use the Warp does not come from the Warp itself, but they still "use" the Warp none the less. Note that the text you quote reads "do not draw their power from the Warp in any fathomable way", and does not read "do not use the Warp in any fathomable way".

If you're simply quoting me and a supporting text, then here, have a hug ^^

I do believe the Tyranids are creation of the Outsider. They come from 'outside' the 40k Galaxy where the Outsider currently resides. To me the Tyranids are the C'Tan's answer to the Orks. Krork/Orks were created to combat the Necron, the Tyranids were created to combat the Krork.

NecronLord3 wrote:I do believe the Tyranids are creation of the Outsider. They come from 'outside' the 40k Galaxy where the Outsider currently resides. To me the Tyranids are the C'Tan's answer to the Orks. Krork/Orks were created to combat the Necron, the Tyranids were created to combat the Krork.

This just doesn't add up though.

The Tyranids are arguably the most psychic race in the entire setting, with every single one of them contributing it's 'Warp presence' (consciousness, psychic mind, whatever you wish to describe it as) to compose the single grandest creature in the setting, a creature that resides both in our dimension and in the Warp. Why would the C'tan design a weapon that uses what is more or less their Kryptonite to that extent?

Furthermore, the Necrons are perfectly adept at fighting off and exterminating the Orks - they don't need help. Gauss weaponry, on a planetary scale (e.g. the Necron World Engine), renders the surface of a world little more than particles of dust. Not even Ork spores are left.

I'm all for conspiracy theories and joining the dots, but the Tyranids being a weapon of the C'tan makes as much sense as the Old Ones being a weapon of the C'tan, not because the Tyranids don't fit the profile of a living weapon (they do), but rather because of the nature of that weapon. It would be like a person with a pollen alergy deciding he's going to club someone to death with the world's largest bouquet of flowers.

Orks are incredibly resilient. IMO, not even Gauss weaponry would be enough to eradicate all the spores to prevent the Orks from regrowing. That is why they are ideally suited to fight Necrons. Lots of them, easily reproduce, and an Ork can pick up Necron Machinery and attach it to their bodies and it will work.

The idea that the C'tan would not use the abilities of their enemies against them is ludicrous. This is done time and time again in history, where the enemy weapon was taken reproduced and used against it's creator. Plus, the Outsider was driven crazy by being tricked into eating its own kind, who knows what kinda of screwed up things this did to it.

Don't forget the Fluff Golden Rule, all fluff is written in a way to be subject to interpretation. That way you can use it to design any sort of scenarios you wish and create a battle over it.

Tyranids are very Psychic, and at first this can be seen as an antithesis of the Necrons and C'tan, but an intresting thing can be gleamed from the description of the Tyranids Shadow in the Warp,
"Tyranids flood the battlefield with the psychic signature of the Hive Fleet, overwhelming the minds of enemy psyckers and interfering with their mystical abilities."
Something to think about, while I don't see the two races being linked in any way, I don't see why they wouldn't ally...at least until everybody else dead anyway.

The Fox Lord wrote:
"Tyranids flood the battlefield with the psychic signature of the Hive Fleet, overwhelming the minds of enemy psyckers and interfering with their mystical abilities."

That sounds like the ultimate anti-old one weapon to me as well as being similar to the Pariah ability.

id suggest people taking a close look to the tyranids enterpretation of shadow in the warp, it could be an interference in the warp possibley destroying the warp. as the necrons hate it so much

Ham doctor wrote:id suggest people taking a close look to the tyranids enterpretation of shadow in the warp, it could be an interference in the warp possibley destroying the warp. as the necrons hate it so much

It doesn't destroy the Warp in any way, shape or form though. The "Shadow" is simply the deafening chitter of trillions of Tyranids talking to one another through the Warp - imagine the sound of a trilion insects chirping outside your window, and then make it louder still, so not only can you not hear anything but you can't even concentrate on what's in front of you. It overwhelms other Warp-presences, little if anything can pass through it and is generally bad news for anything connected to the Warp that's not a Tyranid. That said, it a) still takes place within the Warp and b) does no permanent damage (to the Warp, at least) - everything returns to normal once the Tyranids have passed by (except if you're a psyker who tried to use his abilities without due care, in which case your brain exploded).

I can see how you might compare it to the Pariah effect and/or the Null effect Necron Pylons generate, but it's fundementally different. Pariahs and Null effects are a blanket or curtain against the Warp, where as the Tyranid Shadow is the complete opposite - an absolute overload within the Warp. Which brings us back to "it's the exact opposite to what the C'tan would like to deal with". The C'tan using the Tyranid Shadow to defeat psykers would be like a man who is allergic to water deciding it would be a great idea to kill the man standing next to him... by flooding the room they are both standing in.



As for the Tyranids and Necrons forming an alliance? The Tyranids don't even comprehend the concept. Unlike the Necrons, who were once mortal and are at least partially sentient, the Tyranids are life of a completely different order to the extent that everything else is just raw materials.

Xyptc wrote:As for the Tyranids and Necrons forming an alliance? The Tyranids don't even comprehend the concept. Unlike the Necrons, who were once mortal and are at least partially sentient, the Tyranids are life of a completely different order to the extent that everything else is just raw materials.

I agree with you but an alliance can be looked at in 2 ways. 1) A formal alliance where two(or more) parties formally decided to actively work together for a common goal. 2) An informal alliance where 2 or more parties have a common goal. The parties decrease, avoid, or intentionally put a stop to hostilites against one another for the completion of a seperate goal.

The 2nd type of alliance is where the Tyranids and Necrons fall. Neither desire(or are even capable) of forming an active alliance but neither has much in the way of an interest in fighting each other either. Tyranids cannot consume Necrons since they have no bio-mass, and Necrons do not have a need to kill Tyranids as they are not a creation of the Old Ones, have nothing in the way of a soul or other resource for the C'Tan to use, and are generally not a threat to the Necron. However, both have the same goal; the complete annihilation of all (other)life and the desire to eat it. This is how an alliance can be born, and for all we know the C'Tan could be actively using this alliance for their own goals regardless of whether the Tyranids could be a creation of the Outsider or simply being used once they had entered the Galaxy anyway.

This was also an interesting concept in the experimental 3rd edition Codex: Harlequin. Any army could take the Harlequins as an ally, not that the Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Tyranids, etc... would actively ally themselves with the Harlequins, but that the Harlequins would often appear on the the battlefield to complete a mysterious objective while the two parties were engaged in hostilities.

For me it's more likely the Tyranids are creations of the Old Ones, considering their strong psychic presence, and some similarities to the WHFB Lizardmen.
Both nids and Lizardmen create specialized breeds for different tasks, they both have some members with a powerful connection to the warp/winds of magic,
neither species creates breeds more intelligent than is needed for their tasks, and neither race uses much conventional technology like other races in their setting.

The nids, lacking emotions on the scale of other sentient races could also be seen as a way to "calm" the warp. If they remove all other life in the galaxy, the chaos
powers would most likely disappear too, preparing the galaxy for the Old Ones to return.

That is just my thought about where the nids come from.

That could be, but why would the old ones, who were gone before chaos came, only destroy chaos and leave their biggest enemy active.
'nids don't atack necrons because this is their nature, why would their nature be against their purpose as every race made by the old ones was initially made against necrons.
And if the old ones "came back" how then should they purge the necrons? and where were they in their absence? and if they weren't in this reality/galaxy/ something how would they know of chaos, the only entities from the warp they ever encountered were the "enslavers".

Just a slight remark.

If the old ones kicked the Tyranids out of their galaxy that would constitute a "link" between the Necrons and the Nids.

i was wondering if anyone knew where info can be found on the outsider.

love the analogy with water!!

how were the first nids made anyways?
can the outsider make gak?

'Nids have attacked Crons in the fluff as well (BA codex)

I think that tyranids and necrons are linked only in that they are both in the same galaxy at the same time.

It's possible that the Outsider and the C'tan he devoured formed some sort of wierd hive-mind after they fled the galaxy, it wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened in Sci-fi (Star Trek Destiny series, creation of the borg)