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I know that this will probably be knocked off instantly, but it is somewhat strange.
What if the Necrons were attempting to create a race that would bring the warp to ruin, and make them happy? (Similar to the Xel Naga from SC making the perfect race)

thats what i was thinking. maby the tyranids are supposed to be an end to the warp. even if the tyranids use the warp. just like america we dont want nuclear warfare but its not like we dont have nukes.

JSK-Fox wrote:I know that this will probably be knocked off instantly, but it is somewhat strange.
What if the Necrons were attempting to create a race that would bring the warp to ruin, and make them happy? (Similar to the Xel Naga from SC making the perfect race)

They have the means to sever the ties between the materium and the immaterium technologically, why go through the hassle of creating an entire species meant to nom nom nom? In the end i think people are just reading far too much into the fluff, 'Nids are simply the bugs of the 40k universe, i mean, every scifi universe needs that nom nom nom race, right?

they may need a nom nom nom race but what race isnt that.
space marines- nomnom for the emporer killing all who stand in thier way
chaos space marines- nomnom nom for the blood god.
chaos- nom nom nom do what i want as i bring gods alive and random stuff
necron- nomnom nom we eat your souls
imperial guard- go hide in a corner nomnom nom
idk what else.

How can one find out more about the old ones and the outsider?

TheBlackVanguard wrote:How can one find out more about the old ones and the outsider?

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page

Origins of the Emperor too.

Xyptc wrote:
I can see how you might compare it to the Pariah effect and/or the Null effect Necron Pylons generate, but it's fundementally different. Pariahs and Null effects are a blanket or curtain against the Warp,

First off, I would like to say thank you, your statements in this thread have been amazingly accurate and very insightful.

The above quote is my only problem.

You may have fully meant this but, The Pariah Gene creates a blank. They have no presence in the warp. and to me the Blanket/curtain doesn't seem to say that.

its like trying to see the wind, you could see a blanket or a curtain in the wind. But you can't see the wind by itself.

I hope that made sense.

I think the only link here is that they both wanna eat ya in different ways.

Otherwise nah.

NecronLord3 wrote:

Xyptc wrote:As for the Tyranids and Necrons forming an alliance? The Tyranids don't even comprehend the concept. Unlike the Necrons, who were once mortal and are at least partially sentient, the Tyranids are life of a completely different order to the extent that everything else is just raw materials.

I agree with you but an alliance can be looked at in 2 ways. 1) A formal alliance where two(or more) parties formally decided to actively work together for a common goal. 2) An informal alliance where 2 or more parties have a common goal. The parties decrease, avoid, or intentionally put a stop to hostilites against one another for the completion of a seperate goal.

The 2nd type of alliance is where the Tyranids and Necrons fall. Neither desire(or are even capable) of forming an active alliance but neither has much in the way of an interest in fighting each other either. Tyranids cannot consume Necrons since they have no bio-mass, and Necrons do not have a need to kill Tyranids as they are not a creation of the Old Ones, have nothing in the way of a soul or other resource for the C'Tan to use, and are generally not a threat to the Necron. However, both have the same goal; the complete annihilation of all (other)life and the desire to eat it. This is how an alliance can be born, and for all we know the C'Tan could be actively using this alliance for their own goals regardless of whether the Tyranids could be a creation of the Outsider or simply being used once they had entered the Galaxy anyway.

This was also an interesting concept in the experimental 3rd edition Codex: Harlequin. Any army could take the Harlequins as an ally, not that the Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Tyranids, etc... would actively ally themselves with the Harlequins, but that the Harlequins would often appear on the the battlefield to complete a mysterious objective while the two parties were engaged in hostilities.

Only problem with that is that the Tyranids and Necrons, despite not having a reason to eat each other, both have conflicting goals; the Necrons want souls. Lots of souls. The Tyranids want biomass. Lots of biomass. So what happens when the two both find guys like humies or eldar with biomass and souls?

They fight. They can't share the catch, after all.

Which makes me sad, as I like both Necrons and Tyranids, and don't want those cute little guys killing each other.

Exarch_Nektel wrote:I think that tyranids and necrons are linked only in that they are both in the same galaxy at the same time.

It's possible that the Outsider and the C'tan he devoured formed some sort of wierd hive-mind after they fled the galaxy, it wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened in Sci-fi (Star Trek Destiny series, creation of the borg)

Except that the Outsider is a C'tan (i.e. sentient cloud of energy from this dimension) and the Hive Mind is (at least) the collected thoughts of the Tyranid race linked together in the Warp. It's that distinction that prevents any C'tan from "being" the Hive Mind, and why even the notion of a C'tan having dealings with the Hive Mind (which is so monstrously psychically powerful that it blankets the Warp in light-years' wide expanses) is hard to justify in any way.

i hope that this game/ story doesnt have an ending just keeps going on and brought through out generations.

I really think its as simple as necrons want to destroy all life.

Tyranids want to eat all life.

Necrons aren't technically living and provide no biomass so there's no point in fighting them. *UNLESS the necrons were attempting to destroy a potential source of biomass*

Necrons avoid tyranids because if the tyranids do achieve their goal and consume EVERYTHING, then they will just starve to death wiping their entire race out, thus equaling a win for the necrons.

Just to throw in my $0.02, Say the outsider was the one responsible for the creation of the tyrnids(sp), He is obviously a completely different c'tan then the others who has been referred to as crazy from one source or another. Who's to say his creations can use the warp as a means to an end? The faster they kill the more he absorbs or whatever it is the c'tan do to life. Again just my $0.02

Someone mentioned the Enslavers earlier, and I was just reading the Codex last night where it mentioned them being a problem during the war against the Old Ones. Now, what exactly would the Necrons (or the C'tan) have to fear from Enslavers?

...besides the obvious that they're warp creatures...

I don't.


Because that would be too convenient, cliched, and stereotypical, and I'd rather go for something more original and amusing, like the Tyranids NOT being connected to the thrice-damned Old Ones...

Gearhead wrote:Someone mentioned the Enslavers earlier, and I was just reading the Codex last night where it mentioned them being a problem during the war against the Old Ones. Now, what exactly would the Necrons (or the C'tan) have to fear from Enslavers?

...besides the obvious that they're warp creatures...

I'll field this one.

Firstly, the Enslavers are, en masse, powerful psykers able to overwhelm entire worlds with their bizzare mix of Warp magics and freaky alien biology. If nothing else, they were a plague of giant germs that could tear you in half, blast you with extra-dimensional energies and command the nearby organic creatures to attack you on their behalf. The Necron armies were powerful indeed - the ruled much of the galaxy and exterminated trillions of lives... but the Enslavers are one of those opponents who can wash you away on a given world through literally unending numbers. Not a foe to be taken lightly, especially given the number of psychic organic races which the Enslavers could dominate and convert into portals for more of their kind.

Secondly, and more critically, the Enslavers were consuming the organic races the C'tan sought to use as cattle. The C'tan projected that if allowed to run its course, the Enslaver plague would end all organic life, leaving no delicious sentient races for the C'tan themselves to feed on (which was one of the cornerstones of the C'tan/Old One war). While the Necrons could certainly fight back against the Enslavers if they were brought to battle, the Enslavers could emerge wherever there were pskers and quickly decimate the population by converting psykers into living portals through which more Enslavers could travel and by dominating the rest for use in warfare.

On the whole, the Enslavers weren't so much a mortal threat to the C'tan and the Necrons so much as they were a pestilence which was going to wipe out the living crops over which the C'tan were going to war.

thrice-damned Old Ones...

Best use of words EVAR

Xyptc wrote:

Gearhead wrote:Someone mentioned the Enslavers earlier, and I was just reading the Codex last night where it mentioned them being a problem during the war against the Old Ones. Now, what exactly would the Necrons (or the C'tan) have to fear from Enslavers?

...besides the obvious that they're warp creatures...

I'll field this one.

Firstly, the Enslavers are, en masse, powerful psykers able to overwhelm entire worlds with their bizzare mix of Warp magics and freaky alien biology. If nothing else, they were a plague of giant germs that could tear you in half, blast you with extra-dimensional energies and command the nearby organic creatures to attack you on their behalf. The Necron armies were powerful indeed - the ruled much of the galaxy and exterminated trillions of lives... but the Enslavers are one of those opponents who can wash you away on a given world through literally unending numbers. Not a foe to be taken lightly, especially given the number of psychic organic races which the Enslavers could dominate and convert into portals for more of their kind.

Secondly, and more critically, the Enslavers were consuming the organic races the C'tan sought to use as cattle. The C'tan projected that if allowed to run its course, the Enslaver plague would end all organic life, leaving no delicious sentient races for the C'tan themselves to feed on (which was one of the cornerstones of the C'tan/Old One war). While the Necrons could certainly fight back against the Enslavers if they were brought to battle, the Enslavers could emerge wherever there were pskers and quickly decimate the population by converting psykers into living portals through which more Enslavers could travel and by dominating the rest for use in warfare.

On the whole, the Enslavers weren't so much a mortal threat to the C'tan and the Necrons so much as they were a pestilence which was going to wipe out the living crops over which the C'tan were going to war.

Am I the only one who thinks that the Enslavers are just daemons?

Probably not, but you'd also not be the only one that's wrong...

Dark Heresy: Creatures Anathema goes into the Enslavers a little more than the average source. They're listed under Xenos, and they're a heavily warp-based creature, but still a creature rather than a daemon.

Melissia wrote:Probably not, but you'd also not be the only one that's wrong...

Dark Heresy: Creatures Anathema goes into the Enslavers a little more than the average source. They're listed under Xenos, and they're a heavily warp-based creature, but still a creature rather than a daemon.

See, now why can't they just put that in the actual codex instead of selling yet another book for the information....

... Dark Heresy is a ROLEPLAYING game. They NEED the in depth information. Your group can actually face off against an Enslaver or three (though they're probably screwed if they haven't a good plan). There are no Enslavers in 40k Tabletop. Therefor you don't need to know...

Melissia wrote:... Dark Heresy is a ROLEPLAYING game. They NEED the in depth information. Your group can actually face off against an Enslaver or three (though they're probably screwed if they haven't a good plan). There are no Enslavers in 40k Tabletop. Therefor you don't need to know...

Never heard of Dark Heresy, Take it that its like D&D?

Anyway, Still have to say no to the linked idea.

The C'tan see the bugs as enemies if the Necrons do not. The C'tan feed off life force. If the bugs kill everything than the C'tan have to feed off the bugs and it's probably like eating a ricecake. You can eat them but they probably dont taste very good. It's also very possible the bugs can feed off whatever powers the necrons. Some force must make them move. Maybe it's edible. Most likely the reason for not seeing them fight is the lack of psychic energy (or removal of it)on necron tomb worlds. Maybe it interferes with the bugs communication so they avoid it and since Necrons themselves don't view bugs anymore of a threat than...say bugs..could be a reason.

It's far more likely the 'nids are just another race however the Tau the only other non psychic race are possibly children of the Necrons. The whole greater good would have a very sinister reason behind it. The Tau most likely are not children of the old ones and their amazingly rapid technological rise would have to have some benefactor behind it. Why not the necrons/c'tan?

Also considering how fast the the Orks multiply and because I don't see the Eldar becoming a dying race because of fighting with their Dark cousins, a relentless army wheedling the Eldar down and keeping the Orks in check for eons seems to make sense. Could also explain why there are no more races if the bugs killed more and more on each advance. Humankind is still in 40K universe terms fairly new to the scene and chaos though being around forever and (With the exception of maybe Slanesh) they didn't really come into their own until Horus opened the door to legions upon legions of followers.

The fluff does point to the Machine God being one of the two remaining c'tan. If so that could spell a lot of problems for everyone if he wakes up. And wouldn't that be awesome to see if they really did it in game.

BTW other things I'd love to see but will never happen.

Cypher (not really a bad guy and generally misunderstood) finally waking the Lion and the Lion taking over

The Eldar die off and their god of death is strong enough to kill Slanesh and does. The energy from that creating neoeldar.

Someone on Terra on the cleaning crew cleaning the emperors throne needs a plug for his vacum and unplugs the golden throne. Killing the emperor once and for all. But the emperor comes back and either Kills the cleaning crew member or makes him secratary of state.

Leman Russ comes back and since the space wolves stop looking for him and start fighting stuff causing the destruction of several legions of traitor marines.

Slarg232 wrote:Never heard of Dark Heresy, Take it that its like D&D?

Anyway, Still have to say no to the linked idea.

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite.asp?eidm=50&enmi=Dark%20Heresy
It is like DnD in the same sense that Warhammer Fantasy Battle, Flames of War, and Warmachine are like 40k. IE, it's a roleplaying game.

The mechanics are dramatically different, however, and the setting is, of course, 40k.

It's also a canon source of material. People such as Andy Hoare, Dan Abnett, and John Blanche (who is a major contributor to 40k, if you can get past his crappy artwork) all wrote for and contributed to Dark Heresy and its various supplements.

chaos though being around forever and (With the exception of maybe Slanesh) they didn't really come into their own until Horus opened the door to legions upon legions of followers.

No, Chaos came on their own even before then. During the war between the Old Ones and the C'tan, Chaos Daemons made a mess of both sides' plans, as the psychic nature of the Old Ones' created races caused such strong ripples in the Warp as to create Daemons.

No, Chaos came on their own even before then. During the war between the Old Ones and the C'tan, Chaos Daemons made a mess of both sides' plans, as the psychic nature of the Old Ones' created races caused such strong ripples in the Warp as to create Daemons.

I don't doubt that but I don't see Chaos as a major player in the 40k Universe until they turned Horus. Then "Bam" they had the worshipers and manpower. Chaos does almost nothing on it's own without the traitor marine legions. Especially since Eldar weapons kill Daemos like it's going out of style. The Eldar (dark or otherwise) are too busy with leaking overactive bladders worrying about slanesh to worry about the other 3 gods. That leaves before humas, the Orks which already have Gork and Mork (who may be Daemons in their own right), and 'Nids which hive mind could very well be more powerful than they are.

Commissar wrote:I don't doubt that but I don't see Chaos as a major player in the 40k Universe until they turned Horus.

Horus was a part of one of the more recent big schemes by Chaos-- one of the few times the dark gods worked together-- to counter the Emperor as a threat to their dominion, but I laugh at the idea that he was the first, or for that matter the best of these attempts. Chaos has dominated entire RACES of aliens, quite a few of which existed long before humans ever left that little blue and green rock.

Just because such battles are not recorded in human history (and let's face it, most of GW's fluff is exactly that) does not make any difference. Chaos has existed since the first sentient being in the galaxy was born, so long before humans that the human mind cannot even begin to comprehend the amount of time that Chaos and its servants have fought, both against other enemies, and against eachother.

I think they aren't linked within the universe of 40k itself. However, I think that they share a role as balancing story elements.

The Necrons are the very embodiment of death: they seek to kill all sentient life in the universe. The already succeeded once. They aren't even living creatures.

The Tyranids, on the other hand, represent the concept of life taken to it's logical extreme: a life form so virulent, so driven to survive, that it kills and consumes everything in its path, transforming it into raw living matter to reproduce itself.

I am sure no one intended for it to be so, but I see the tyranids and the necrons as a metaphor: in the grim darkness of the future, both life and death are your enemy. There is no mercy in life, and death is no escape. It adds to the feeling of humanity being hemmed in from all sides, even from the forces of reality themselves.

Just my take on it, I could be wrong.

Melissia wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:Never heard of Dark Heresy, Take it that its like D&D?

Anyway, Still have to say no to the linked idea.

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite.asp?eidm=50&enmi=Dark%20Heresy
It is like DnD in the same sense that Warhammer Fantasy Battle, Flames of War, and Warmachine are like 40k. IE, it's a roleplaying game.

The mechanics are dramatically different, however, and the setting is, of course, 40k.

It's also a canon source of material. People such as Andy Hoare, Dan Abnett, and John Blanche (who is a major contributor to 40k, if you can get past his crappy artwork) all wrote for and contributed to Dark Heresy and its various supplements.

chaos though being around forever and (With the exception of maybe Slanesh) they didn't really come into their own until Horus opened the door to legions upon legions of followers.

No, Chaos came on their own even before then. During the war between the Old Ones and the C'tan, Chaos Daemons made a mess of both sides' plans, as the psychic nature of the Old Ones' created races caused such strong ripples in the Warp as to create Daemons.

Creatures Anathema convinced me more than ever that its just best to kill all aliens on sight. Scary, scary aliens in there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's been said the the warp was actually a nice tranquil place once but then the Old Ones created the eldar to use the warp as a weapon. Then things went to hell (literally). Basically I blame everything that's wrong in the universe on the eldar.

Well I don't think that the Necrons are controlling the tyranids directly but tyranid fluff has repeatedly stated that one of the reasons the tyranids may have come to our galaxy is that they are running from a race even more terrible. I always thought that, that race was the Necrons.

Think about it if the necrons are preparing for their gods to return they don't want any resistance organized toward them. So they present the galaxy with a much more pressing threat to distract them from their awakening. Go out into the great unknown and either create or find the tyranids and proceed to herd them towards our galaxy. Biggest distraction they could have asked for.

Also the C'tan don't eat souls they eat bioelectricity. In fact in the Necron 'dex Abaddon talks to a daemon who says that daemons gather around the c'tan so that whenever it feeds they can eat the soul of its victim.

The Unending wrote:Well I don't think that the Necrons are controlling the tyranids directly but tyranid fluff has repeatedly stated that one of the reasons the tyranids may have come to our galaxy is that they are running from a race even more terrible. I always thought that, that race was the Necrons.

quote]

Where does it say that?