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How many cases like this do you think occur every year?

How many would be prevented by draconian laws?

I happen to agree with the "starship troopers" method of punishment (just read the book)...

there are two possiblities for the woman.

1) she can be made well, in which she will realize she took the life of her son for nothing, and will be unable to live with herself, making death a mercy.

2) she cannot be made well, and should be put to death for the safety of those around her.

Either way, she should die.

Soladrin wrote:

garret wrote:You Know. I see read threads like this and i see alot of people in dakka would really beneifet from a sociology class. These people need help not to be punished. And i think maybe the cult leadr just idk prison. Even if he does get murder some how he will plead insanity.

Why? To let me know that the current law system is far to lenient? I don't need classes for that.

We are to harsh if you ask me. We put all cases in a box as in they are all the same. "This murder is the same as the ones yesterday" is our mentality. But not all cases are they same. The mother may not have control of her rational mind. She may not have a say.
You should go read the the new yorker article calle "trial by fire" It shows how we lump all cases together.

She allowed her son to be starved to death. She might as well have put a gun to his head. That, at least would have been quicker, but instead her innocent child suffered a long and painful death.
Most people, rational or not, know that other human beings die if they aren't fed. There is no excuse for what she did.

Im not bothering argueing. most People it seems on the internet are not rational or compassionate themselves

Listen son, if you're going to start preaching to people at least learn to construct a readable sentence first. You might think that the fact you've attended a couple of sociology lessons gives you carte blanche to judge other people but the fact is, you're fething clueless.

She allowed her son to be starved to death. How is it irrational to think that that is monstrous?

When she is brainwashed by a cult leader who most likely is puppeting her mind it is not. She thought it was right. She should be help and i am glad to hear that she is. It is the leader who is monsterous for ordering that.

garret wrote:

Soladrin wrote:

garret wrote:You Know. I see read threads like this and i see alot of people in dakka would really beneifet from a sociology class. These people need help not to be punished. And i think maybe the cult leadr just idk prison. Even if he does get murder some how he will plead insanity.

Why? To let me know that the current law system is far to lenient? I don't need classes for that.

We are to harsh if you ask me. We put all cases in a box as in they are all the same. "This murder is the same as the ones yesterday" is our mentality. But not all cases are they same. The mother may not have control of her rational mind. She may not have a say.
You should go read the the new yorker article calle "trial by fire" It shows how we lump all cases together.

Really? People get away with murder and worse on a daily basis.

And if we didn't lump cases together, there'd be even more un-convicted fellons, I think I'll at least keep it as is.

Lumping cases together only makes since if every human was exactly the same. If we judged on a case by case basis people could actually get what they deserve/need. not just with murder but with all cases.

garret wrote:Lumping cases together only makes since if every human was exactly the same. If we judged on a case by case basis people could actually get what they deserve/need. not just with murder but with all cases.

Wishful thinking There is no such thing a perfect system, because a system doesn't deal with the individual.

But I'm off to work now, at bloody 5.20 AM.

Honersstodnt wrote:1) she can be made well, in which she will realize she took the life of her son for nothing, and will be unable to live with herself, making death a mercy.

Or maybe she could go on teaching the dangers of being in a cult. There for helping to prevent what happened to her son to others kids.

garret wrote:

Honersstodnt wrote:1) she can be made well, in which she will realize she took the life of her son for nothing, and will be unable to live with herself, making death a mercy.

Or maybe she could go on teaching the dangers of being in a cult. There for helping to prevent what happened to her son to others kids.

The gibbet for our age...

At least you aren't dead first, nowadays.

Yet more fuel for my hatred for religion.

Shadowbrand wrote:Yet more fuel for my hatred for religion.

Why are you lumping us all together there will alway be people who take everything to the extreme. That doesnt mean you need to hate all of them.

Soladrin wrote:
And if we didn't lump cases together, there'd be even more un-convicted fellons, I think I'll at least keep it as is.

There wouldn't be felons to convict, as 'felon' is a category.

That said, the existence of categorical judgment does not preclude case-by-case examination. In fact, it assumes it. If cases are not examined individually, how can they be assigned to a category for appropriate judgment?

garret wrote:

Shadowbrand wrote:Yet more fuel for my hatred for religion.

Why are you lumping us all together there will alway be people who take everything to the extreme. That doesnt mean you need to hate all of them.

Well I don't want to speak for shadowbrand here but he didn't say he hated religious people, only religion itself.

Eh, I wouldn't worry about Shadowbrand. One of these days he's going to kill someone, somewhere. But it probably won't be here, and it probably won't be me.

garret wrote:When she is brainwashed by a cult leader who most likely is puppeting her mind it is not. She thought it was right. She should be help and i am glad to hear that she is. It is the leader who is monsterous for ordering that.

She had a duty of care to that child - that she put her religion before his wellbeing is simply inexcusable. Again, louder:

SHE STARVED HIM TO DEATH.

You know that feeling you get at around 5pm when you haven't eaten all day? Now imagine it's been 5 days. You would be weak, delirious - you'd probably be hallucinating. You'd also be in a tremendous amount of pain. Everyone else around you is eating, but you aren't allowed to because YOU DIDN'T SAY YOUR PRAYERS PROPERLY.

How a mother could watch her child starve to death is mind-blowing. These witch-doctors need lining up against a wall.

Actually Ablatross, we don't know the details of this case. Althought the mother may have consented, she may not have been present and actually watching the child starve to death. I don't want to rationalise her actions, but it seems like she believed, and is still clinging desperately to the hope that her child will come back. It's sad, just sad. I just can't feel anger at her. . This is a horrible situation, and it says something that even the prosecutors weren't too keen to throw the book at her. You're angry, I get that, but please try to lay back on the personal attacks Fair enough?

This is why I dislike cults and their brainwashings.I feel sorry for those brainwashed souls and their leaders only deserve my fist in their face.

Dr. Obvious, I presume?

Emperors Faithful wrote:Dr. Obvious, I presume?

Who,my post?

No. The other post.

Emperors Faithful wrote:No. The other post.

Thanks for the info BTW congratulations on your new rank.

Just remember, I'm undercover.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Just remember, I'm undercover.

And I have your back in my Sentinel,in 19 posts I will have a Leman Russ tank.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Actually Ablatross, we don't know the details of this case. Althought the mother may have consented, she may not have been present and actually watching the child starve to death. I don't want to rationalise her actions, but it seems like she believed, and is still clinging desperately to the hope that her child will come back. It's sad, just sad. I just can't feel anger at her. .

But you are rationalising her actions - you said she might not have been present. Oh well, that's alright then! If she left her kid with cult-members that's fine....
We know the details of the case which relate to how the child died - starvation. Do you know how long it takes to die of starvation? It can be a long time, in fact I'm inclined to believe he may have been denied water, as that will kill a person much quicker. Have you ever gone hungry? It is extremely unpleasant, to say the least. She was the childs mother, and the death was protracted enough that she could have stopped it.

This is a horrible situation, and it says something that even the prosecutors weren't too keen to throw the book at her. You're angry, I get that, but please try to lay back on the personal attacks Fair enough?

Aye, fair enough. It's just that people using pseudo-intellectual BS to make excuses for stuff like this irritates me. Yes, people can be brain-washed, but brainwashed into letting your own child die? I think part of the problem with today's society is that we are too quick to make excuses for people who do abhorrent things.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Emperors Faithful wrote:Dr. Obvious, I presume?

Do you really think it was the prosecutors would have bought into it if there wasn't something seriously wrong with this woman? Why slam down on the other cult members, but spare the mother if she shared the responsibility? I understand your reasons for anger, Ablatross, I really do. But for some reasons I'm just not feeling the same. I just think that she was an incredibly, dangerously ingnorant woman who was taken advantage of.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW, the longest I have ever gone without food is a little over 2-and-a-half days. I felt like gak. Really. Different from a hangover (not that I'd know), but still gak.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Soladrin wrote:She deserves a bullet through the head along with that cult.

Brainwashing is an awfully handy excuse for stupidity it seems.

We typically disagree, but not in this instance.

And in honor of Soladrin's Germanic background I respectfully submit the appropriate tool for reformation of the cult.

I disagree strongly.



I hear heads splat like ripe watermelon.

Charming... Just charming.

And neither of the above are sufficient. May I reccomend this-


And start chopping at the feet and work up.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Do you really think it was the prosecutors would have bought into it if there wasn't something seriously wrong with this woman? Why slam down on the other cult members, but spare the mother if she shared the responsibility? I understand your reasons for anger, Ablatross, I really do. But for some reasons I'm just not feeling the same. I just think that she was an incredibly, dangerously ingnorant woman who was taken advantage of.

Epic ignorance is also a crime in my book.