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The Devastator toy from transformers is as tall as a Forge World Warhound Titan

The Fox Lord wrote:Soda Bottles are only acceptable as Drop Pod Proxies,

I like that idea, add a little greenstuff, a spare devourer or two, bada bing bada boom: Mycetic Spore.

I've got two kids whose armies I have to support PLUS my own. Needless to say, we proxy. But I try and keep it more like "counts as" more than anything. It does get very confusing after a while keeping track. Half the time we forget to use our psyker powers simply because we look at the battlefield and don't actually see a psyker.

Long ago, from off of the Australian version of the Games-Workshop website, I found a set of rules called "Creature Feature". It is a set of guide lines to create unique monsters, aliens, or plant life with their own stats and weapon choices. My youngest daughter and I used these rules to create her "Littlest Death Shop" army using those disgustingly cute little animals with big heads and bug eyes called "littlest pet shop" you can find in practically any toy isle. Those are not technically proxy, not actually technically tournament legal either, but they are what they ACTUALLY are; acid blood, defensive spines, mind control and all.

If you would like a copy of the "Creature Feature" rules to make your own unique creatures, send me a PM with your e-mail address and I will send it to you...eventually

It's only 436 kb in size, needs Adobe Acrobat to view, and free. Games-Workshop was giving it away no charge, so I'm not breaking any laws if I do the same.

I once played a nid opponent who used monster energy drink cans as metric spores....... and half assambled trygons and fexes...

Players who are totally anal about WYSIWYG do bug me and were what stopped me taking up 40K years ago, but I have to say that I think there is a line that has to be drawn somewhere. I wouldn't be happy if my mate put a tissue box on the table and said it was a Land Raider. But if he was in the process of building it and just put the basic hull on the table without weapons, that's okay, he's in the process of building it, cut the guy some slack.

Some figures can be used for various units IMHO, eg. A unit of Space Marine Space Wolves. I'd have no problem with the minis being used as Blood Claws one week and Grey Hunters the next, just as long as I know what they are. Ork Boyz/'Ard Boyz, the difference in the model is what, the should pad? Ork Lootas & Big Shootas? No difference in the models if you ask me so long as the player makes it clear what the unit is at the start.

I think it really comes down to common sense, having fun and okay provided one player is not deliberately taking the micky.

Totally up to the people involved - when I'm messing around with army listing I often use proxies before buying expensive toys (we can't all be rich now can we) - buy I always check with my opponent before hand.

If I like the thing though I'd replace it with the real thing asap - the game is more fun when everything looks more realistic after all. No one at our local store is too anal about the use of proxies I'm glad to say (especially the week I forgot to take my XV8 crisis suit commander and had to use a glue pot instead of him!).

There's no hard and fast rule really - totally down to personal preference - but you will probably get to play more people and the games will be better the less proxies you try to use.

I have read few wierd proxies.... but..... i have seen to proxy an Land raider.....WITH 4 DICES!!!!! placed on the "supossed" corners of the tank

IMO i prefer not deploy a an unit that i don't have.... points of view... as much, weapons...

Here's a fun idea... take a trip to a local dollar store and visit the toy isle. ("no Mike, the plastic cows are the blood claws, the little army dudes are the grey hunters, and the dinosaurs are dreadnoughts, the cowboys and indians are wolfguard... sheesh stay with it man!")

Depends on how close the proxy is. Someone using CSM for SW is totally fine. Having a LRBT and saying you want to use it as another varient, things like that are fine. Making your own custom character for a counts as so and so, as long as hes wearing what he has, thats fine. But what you mentioned is just WAY beyond that. You should of told the guy no friggin way, games over.

The worst I saw, was a guy stopped at a toystore on the way over for a game, and bought playdoh. He shows up and drops a blob of playdoh on the table and tells me its his new leman russ, and then pulls out a giant brick of legos from his box, and says its his OTHER LRBT. That gak pisses me off.

That actually kinda rocks and sounds like fun to me. screw GW standards lets go back to kindergarten! We would all probably have more fun and less expenses.

Guitardian wrote:I think there is some fun to the fact of having to learn to use the toys at your disposal. I only own 15 Dire Avengers, two of whom are exarchs. This is not common for someone who has about 4000 points worth of eldar, but I like to work around it instead of just going out to buy more stuff, or saying 'oh well these are actually dire avengers, not rangers' or whatever. It's fun to learn to use the toys you have, rather than power listing the toys you wish you have for that WAAC mentality. I dunno about you guys but I like MY toys, not my next door neighbor kids giant Voltron (who I guess could be a proxy titan).

I generally follow this mantra as well, some times though its hard to buy the toys you want lol. I like to work with what i have, i built the 3rd co Ultramarines, gonna start soon on portions of 1st, so I can stop using one of my Tac squads as Sternguard. I think its ok do proxy something like that, because the only real difference in model it the color of helmet? not that big a deal, and the Tac squad i use is the only squad that has bayonets so it works easy enough on the table top. But i would never use voltron as a titan.... i mean thats not even close to a GW model lol

I actually think more of people who just paint Tac marines differently so they can be sternies. Again, I regularly use my 4ML Devestator Squad (from Tac Squads) as LCs or MMs so I can have "Real" Heavy Weapons in my Tac Squads.

What I could not hack was a guy insisting that my LR could not shoot his valkyries (cardboard ovals) as it could not see the models which just happen to be flat.

Otherwise, they are good.

Cardboard ovals??!! Okay that is going to far. Next time you play him bring your shoebox baneblade.

I would, but I have the one thing that can beat it, INVISIBLE TITAN.

Guitardian wrote:Here's a fun idea... take a trip to a local dollar store and visit the toy isle. ("no Mike, the plastic cows are the blood claws, the little army dudes are the grey hunters, and the dinosaurs are dreadnoughts, the cowboys and indians are wolfguard... sheesh stay with it man!")

I've considered buying a couple of bags of plastic bugs to buff up my 'nids on more then once


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KingCracker wrote:The worst I saw, was a guy stopped at a toystore on the way over for a game, and bought playdoh. He shows up and drops a blob of playdoh on the table and tells me its his new leman russ, and then pulls out a giant brick of legos from his box, and says its his OTHER LRBT. That gak pisses me off.

Yeah the playdoh was going to far & if your going to use Lego's at least take the time build them into a semblance of the model, e.g., Lego Ork Trukk should look like a truck & Lego Dreadnought (I've seen these & they can look great) should look like a dread

I have personally brought 6 Wood Block chimeras to a tourney; I did Decent and all were std codex Chims and had Foamcore turrets dimensions were equal with the actual model.

I have a 2nd Ed Legion of the Damned army that I proxy as Codex Marines, Space Wolves, or Chaos Marines, as the mood takes me. However, all the gear is WYSIWYG, all the models are painted above tournament standard, and I always inform my opponent as to which codex I'm using which does include a multi-colored printed army list. If I don't have an appropriate and fully painted GW model for a unit, I don't field it.

That said, I have allowed my opponents to proxy units with paper templates (Dark Eldar Raiders), card mock-ups (any Marine vehicle), or obviously wrong units (Ork Space Wolves). If an issue comes up, we discuss the problem and agree on a solution so as not to interrupt play more than needed.

But then again, I'm a social gamer who enjoys the hobby.

SJ

I am new to the hobby, so I have to proxy some weapons since I put my guys together before understanding the rules (I just tried to make them look cool), but outside of that I refuse to play with someone who proxies. It's fine to change around weapons here and there if it is announced up front and listed on the FoC cheat, but using pop cans and such for drop pods is no go. Even a new player knows that a game based on line of sight is broken by proxies not the same dimensions, and besides, if I am going to spend 25.00 on a drop pod and the hours it takes to assemble, primer and paint it you had better to. If not then why buy GW stuff at all?

It's all or none. I would never play with someone who "made up" figures. You either put the work/cash into it or you don't have it.

I had 25 tactical marines I made partially into some extra assault and sternguard, but I still bought the extra bits, painted, and modeled them to fit. I don't expect anyone to let me field regular tacticals and call them sternguard. It's confusing, and not fair to the serious hobbyists.

When I play with proxies I have a system that makes it clear.

For example, last weekend I was playing Necromunda and out of my 6 members, only 2 where WYSIWYG, so I named them all (Mark, Joe, etc), put some masking tape on the base's edge and wrote the name there, then handed a copy of the gang's roster to my opponent.

He didn't complained and all was clear to him.

I'm telling you guys... plastic cowboys n indians, farm animals, bugs, green army men, dinosaurs, LEGO tanks, and GW would end up only able to sell rulebooks any more. (maybe they would pay attention to the rules again?)

Should we play Toymallet 40C? xDDD

I'm so fielding an army of Hello Kitau

The only thing I ever proxy is ocasionally making a meltagun a flamer and vice versa. I don't have a problem with my opponent doing this and no one has ever said to me you can't do that. The only rule that is ever in place is that either person can check at any point that the unit they are about to fire upon has either a flamer or a meltagun. I don't agree with complete unit/tank proxies however

In my recent play tests for my GKs, I proxied PAGKs with gluesticks, Termies with some wierd squat candles I found and Land Raiders with some stacked up DVDs

S_P

oadie wrote:Not everyone has the time and money to have every unit they'll ever want to play, when they want to play it, and that's just fine. There's definitely a line, though, even if it likes to dance around a bit. Are you playing with buddies at home or are these pick-ups at the FLGS (I won't even touch tournaments - I say that's pushing it and I've never even considered competing)? Are you proxying an entire 2000pt army or a unit/vehicle or two? Are you playtesting for a game or two or are you just too lazy to make a reasonable attempt?

I'm new, so I'd be lenient with proxies, as my opponent will probably have to trudge through helping me with rules and inevitably slow play - I'm in no position to be a dick. Doesn't mean I wouldn't rather play against proper models, it's just not of the utmost concern, for me. He better have the rules handy, though. I'll let your Mountain Dew count as a drop pod, but unless you show me where in the codex it says it comes with 3 lascannons standard, I'm calling bull.

It was an flgs match, but his warriors apparently had wings, a swarmlord was a busted up old tyrant, and harpies were awful looking frexes. Oh and did I mention the ultramarine genestealers?

I agree with simple weapon proxies, and let my friend who plays eldar proxy striking scorpions as guardians with fusion pistols since I can clearly tell what they represent.

However some of these stories are outlandish, bottles and tissue boxes? I wouldn't even bother unpacking.

Guitardian wrote:LEGO!

Note that on a per-figure basis, Lego men are about the same retail price as Space Marines. Except, less discounting available.
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oadie wrote:Not everyone has the time and money to have every unit they'll ever want to play, when they want to play it, and that's just fine.

Smaller games of 750 or 1000 pts are just fine. There's no law requiring 1500+ pts per game.
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Xca|iber wrote:So 90% of the games I have played, I'm shot at by cardboard circles, and I cut up little paper flags in close combat.

Buy a couple bags of GW round bases, glue some pennies underneath, and at least you'll have that part right?

Normally, I'm okay with people using proxies, but there was one instance where I put my foot down.

Back in '99, there was this guy named Joey who wanted to get involved with my 40k group... but he didn't want to spend his money on miniatures, despite the fact that he had a decent amount of money to spare. For a while, we let him use our spare miniatures to proxy his armies, with the hope that once he found "the right army", he would go out and buy the miniatures. After three months or so, it became obvious that he had no intention of doing that. He was just going to continue to use ours. So, I cut him off. He stopped coming around for a month or so.

One day, however, he stopped by my house and offered the "perfect solution" (his words, mind you). He held in his grubby little hands a bag of fish tank beads and told me -- not asked, but told me -- that I was going to design him his own codex and the beads were going to be his miniatures. His army? Blobs! Ef'fing BLOBS! And he was completely serious. He actually expected me to develop a brand new codex just for him.

It goes without saying that I told him that there wasn't a chance in hell that I would go along with his "perfect solution". Furthermore, I jumped his ass for telling me that I was going to write his Blob codex for him.

He never returned. And I haven't shed a single tear about that fact either.

Fricking BLOBS!!

We usually dont have a problem proxying during friendly games although for the tournaments we host we usually require for the most part WYSIWYG. When I played 'nids, I used and insectisaurus from Monsters Vs Aliens as a Carnifex... or was it a Hive Tyrant (4th ed)... Ive seen red Dixie cups fielded as drop pods... lmao...

I did field SoB as a PBS once or twice just to see how they played.... I think I'm going to pick up a squad or 3... lol.

I think proxies are fine for the most part. So long as they are close in shape, appearance to what they are. I once used a land raider as everything but a land raider, but it was always the biggest tank in the army that it was being proxied as.

I dislike proxies. What I dislike much more though is people using units that they do not have the rules for.

I have no problem with FW rules but have a copy with you. (and your codex!)


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oadie wrote:Not everyone has the time and money to have every unit they'll ever want to play, when they want to play it, and that's just fine. T

This line of reasoning always annoys me. Like you're entitled to use whatever units you want. Use the units you have. If you want to proxy for a game to two to try it out then fine. If it's good then buy it and build it, if not then stop proxying it.




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Guitardian wrote:I think there is some fun to the fact of having to learn to use the toys at your disposal.

Guitardian gets it.

I have no problem with proxies, ass long as there all the same e.g. All flamethrowers in tac squads are plasma guns say. Not one here and one there.

I've seen a friend that used Dark Eldar Jetbikes as Wave serpents. I didn't complain too much because he only has about 1500 points total and this was pretty much an Apoc game. If I ever have anything that isn't WYSIWYG, I let my opponent know. I often substitute power weapons for CCWs and vise versa, moslty because I like the looks of chainswords better than power weapons. I usually paint the chainswords with glowing teeth to show they are special.