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webbe wrote:No LOS can be drawn through the pod. Pod weapon fires as if doors were open.

So you can use it to block line of sight but still shoot out? Is that not a bit funky?

Soup and a roll wrote:

webbe wrote:No LOS can be drawn through the pod. Pod weapon fires as if doors were open.

So you can use it to block line of sight but still shoot out? Is that not a bit funky?

Seconded.
What gives man?

I honestly think the doors are kinda useless.
Everyone (but me of course ) glues their doors shut because they get in the way.
Nothing like someone dropping a pod and knocking down half your unit with the doors.
So no the doors don't even count for the vehicle. I usually play it as if the doors are ALWAYS closed (no LoS through)
Giggles,
Mr. Self Destruct

I vote D. You dont test difficult terrain to walk over rhino or Valkyrie hatches (you know, the ones you pretty much have to glue because they always fall open) so I would never test to walk over drop pod doors.

Playing with the doors up does mean you create a nice LOS blocking piece of terrain for yourself, which is against the intent of the model in my opinion.
Hence doors come down but are ignored

HA, that reminded me of this stupid idea I had with my gaming buds.

bring like 30 drop pods, empty. Just rain them down at your enemies, they block los and movement. surround their landraiders and such with 4 or 5 drop pods each.

There's a SM artillery tank right? if it can indirect fire just bring a few of those and smile at your new enemy for life.

Except you would need 30 squads for the 30 drop pods, as you cannot buy them on their own...

aww, cant just fill up on transports? of course it makes sense, i just didnt know where in the book it was covered.

Yea on a normal FOC chart you can get a max of 18 pods that number however involves you getting command squads/honor guards (the number is augmented to 20 if you take papa smurf for 3 honor guard units) obviously this will involve alot of points however and the whirlwind isn't all that impressive of an artilerry piece anyway (keep in mind thats the oppinion of an IG player). Besides most tanks can shoot/ram the gak out of ur pod wall and move on unobsructed (especially them raiders you mentioned).

If you surround the LR so it has only 1" - 2.99r" gap, the best it can manage is a S5 ram - which wont hurt the pod at all.

If you surround the LR so it has only 1" - 2.99r" gap, the best it can manage is a S5 ram - which wont hurt the pod at all.

But the LR will have many weapons capable of blowing up the pods - multimelta, lascannons, assault cannon, so this tactic is pretty flawed to say the least. Not to mention the amount of damage an indirect barrage from a whirlwind will do to a mech army (i.e. none).

It was just pointing out that *ramming* wont do anything.

Fair enough and definitely correct.

And why arent the doors apart of the model. If you built them on the model they are apart of the model and then count as part of the vehicle seeing as it is open topped if you dont want to use them bont build them on your model but other ways they are aprt of the vehilce since it is oppened top they act as a vehicle. They interfere with everything. And what stop you from opening and closing the doors at anytime in the game?

To answer your second question first, what stops you from opening and closing the doors during the game is that GW has indicated (at least through photos and fluff) that the doors do not close again once open. For practical game purposes, as well, most gamers forbid altering the profile of a model while the game is in progress, as it creates many avenues for abuse of LOS and other rules.

As for why to ignore the doors, it’s a combination of two things: 1. Because the rulebook says that all measurements to and from vehicles (aside from their weapons firing) are done to and from the Hull. And 2. Because counting the doors as part of the vehicle for movement, assault, and other purposes makes them a giant pain in the neck.

I play option C, the doors are part of the vehicle and they should always be treated as such. That is how we play around where I live, and it suits us fine.

Ratbarf wrote:I play option C, the doors are part of the vehicle and they should always be treated as such. That is how we play around where I live, and it suits us fine.

So do your droppos IGS if they scatter over the unit move to avoid mishap, and then land the doors open and hit the squad you just missed? Isn't that a mishap? Or do you move so the doors would clear as well? That's a pretty huge zone to deploy with...

ChrisCP wrote: Or do you move so the doors would clear as well?

If you're playing that the doors count as a part of the model, you would have to. Which means you will indeed need a pretty huge open area in which to land a single pod, and if you're playing with anything like the right amount of terrain on the board are pretty unlikely to ever get more than a couple of pods onto the table.

I glued mine shut. I just talk it over at the beginning of the game as to how we want to deal with the the LOS issues. If someone is being difficult I don't shoot the Storm Bolters with the doors shut, though I would never personally forbid another player from doing it. Gluing the doors shut is really the best way to deal with these models as they just knock stuff over and are a general nuisance otherwise.

Option D.

So do your droppos IGS if they scatter over the unit move to avoid mishap, and then land the doors open and hit the squad you just missed? Isn't that a mishap? Or do you move so the doors would clear as well? That's a pretty huge zone to deploy with...

Yip, thats how we play them, the doors are always down when we roll for scatter so you just move the most inches possible in the direction than bail out.

If you're playing that the doors count as a part of the model, you would have to. Which means you will indeed need a pretty huge open area in which to land a single pod, and if you're playing with anything like the right amount of terrain on the board are pretty unlikely to ever get more than a couple of pods onto the table.

Eh, you'd be surprised how many you can fit on a board actually, we can pretty easily fit 6 on a 6 by 4 board with more terrain than I would say is average.

Mannahnin wrote:
As for why to ignore the doors, it’s a combination of two things: 1. Because the rulebook says that all measurements to and from vehicles (aside from their weapons firing) are done to and from the Hull. And 2. Because counting the doors as part of the vehicle for movement, assault, and other purposes makes them a giant pain in the neck.

Well for deploying out of open topped vehicles it clearly states you can disembark from any point on the model which would include the doors and secondly just because something is a giant pain in the neck doesn't mean you can ignore the rules and if we say doors do not block line of sit then i should be able to see right through my land raider and rhinos sides seeing as both doors do not block line of sight or even exist for any matters but looks, meaning i could shoot right through it with a demolisher cannon.

Actually, we can change the rules however we want. Ignoring the doors is a better solution for nearly everyone - you almost never see 4/5 people agreeing in a dakka poll.

No ones saying doors don't block LOS in all cases, not that I think any model could take cover from a drop pod door, anyway. They're talking about how the drop pod is played when the doors are glued shut. As the model was assembled "incorrectly" you have to compensate for that in the game.

Well for deploying out of open topped vehicles it clearly states you can disembark from any point on the model

This is not correct, it says within 2" of the vehicle. We are told in the vehicle rules you in all instances only count the Hull for measuring. The question is do the Doors constitute part of the Hull? Most people would say no, certainly for any other model it is a clear no, granted due to how much the Doors make up of the hull when closed there is a possibility for a yes. So you make a ruling that makes the most sense.

Having the DP provide a 14" circle for deployment and a 12" barrier for the game just doesn't make sense, causes all sort of pratical and logistical problems and has far too large an impact on the game.

If someone really wants to do that it's fine with me but they will need to find a foot wide circle to put it in - no "oh, I'll just leave these two doors shut" nonsense.

Everyone I've seen who tried to count the doors as part of the hull would open them selectively after deploying....

What happens with spore pods on the field?

FlingitNow wrote:Having the DP provide a 14" circle for deployment and a 12" barrier for the game just doesn't make sense, causes all sort of pratical and logistical problems and has far too large an impact on the game.

But at 30 points we need to get some kind of advantage out of it. Thats almost two marines worth of points wasted otherwise!!

But seriously Hull it is. Doors are cosmetic at best (and a pain to place) but if I land next to a unit (mine or my opponents) and the doors are going to hit someone I'll ask their permision and then place the affected models on top of the open doors. It does bump their heigh a small bit but it makes the DP seem more an actual part of the battlefield as the units are fighting around and over the doors. And I would never try to deploy within 2" of the doors, that's just pure insanity, and makes teleport homers look like the red headed stepchild of accurate deep striking.

Edit: Thats better. F'ing wonky internets...

FlingitNow wrote:

Well for deploying out of open topped vehicles it clearly states you can disembark from any point on the model

This is not correct, it says within 2" of the vehicle. We are told in the vehicle rules you in all instances only count the Hull for measuring. The question is do the Doors constitute part of the Hull? Most people would say no, certainly for any other model it is a clear no, granted due to how much the Doors make up of the hull when closed there is a possibility for a yes. So you make a ruling that makes the most sense.

Having the DP provide a 14" circle for deployment and a 12" barrier for the game just doesn't make sense, causes all sort of practical and logistical problems and has far too large an impact on the game.

It says measure from the vehicles hull or body and i would classify the doors as part of the body of the drop pod like you would say your hands are part of you body. I say this because the doors are if built into the vehicle part of its body and not an add-on or upgrade. So if you have a drop pod with working doors you should be able to use(if they can move or not) them and count them as part of the body. So by all means the doors are part of the vehicles body if . Or you can take it as a vehicle who's hull splits open and creates a bigger area kind of like a flower blossoming its all part of the flower its just getting bigger.

Hull Definition-3. The outer casing of a rocket, guided missile, or spaceship.-http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Hull

Doors count as casing and therefore are part of the hull.

Using the anaolgy of ones body. Doors (on a DP) do not equal Hull just like Arms do not equal Torso. But from a playability standpoint the doors cause more problems than they solve if you don't ignore them and ignore them in no way violates any rules in the BRB. A loose semantic interpretation of the rules could equate doors to hull, but this would serve no purpose other than to win a rules dispute and create headaches for other players who use drop pods.

Ugh, I hate this debate... I prefer it when DP doors are kept shut the entire game, it makes things so much simpler...

zeshin wrote:Using the anaolgy of ones body. Doors (on a DP) do not equal Hull just like Arms do not equal Torso. But from a playability standpoint the doors cause more problems than they solve if you don't ignore them and ignore them in no way violates any rules in the BRB. A loose semantic interpretation of the rules could equate doors to hull, but this would serve no purpose other than to win a rules dispute and create headaches for other players who use drop pods.

How they should be played and how people want to play them are two different things, just because its a pain in the neck to include the doors does not overturn RAW. If you make a home rule with your opposing player sure by all means play that way but understand that the Drop Pod doors are part of the hull, and so must be taken into account in LOS and measuring.

And sorry for the crappy analogy.