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Actually the analogy was fine, as the doors are the same as your hands, an add on or upgrade would be like wearing a hat.

But from a playability standpoint the doors cause more problems than they solve if you don't ignore them and ignore them in no way violates any rules in the BRB.

We arn't talking about playability in most cases, but about RAW. Speaking of which where in the Warhammer rulebook does it mention hulls and doors at all? I think you mean the Warhammer 40k rule book, or the BGB, not the BRB. (But that's just me being a jerk with semantics.)

Ratbarf wrote:Actually the analogy was fine, as the doors are the same as your hands, an add on or upgrade would be like wearing a hat.

But from a playability standpoint the doors cause more problems than they solve if you don't ignore them and ignore them in no way violates any rules in the BRB.

We arn't talking about playability in most cases, but about RAW. Speaking of which where in the Warhammer rulebook does it mention hulls and doors at all? I think you mean the Warhammer 40k rule book, or the BGB, not the BRB. (But that's just me being a jerk with semantics.)

1. You said what I failed to say about the drop pod doors.
2. Its big, Its red , Its a book- BRB fits it fine for definging it.

If you want to start down that route, show me where there is permission to open or close the doors in game...

There's not, so if you want open doors to count as hull then they need to be open when you're placing the pod. You're goin to need to find each pod a 14" circle of clear space toland in if you don't want to mishap.

Grey elder wrote:
How they should be played and how people want to play them are two different things

How people want to play something and how they say it should be played are essentially the same thing. It's how people want to play and what the rules actually say how to play that are in conflict. The point you seem to be missing is that we all know how the rules actually work - by RAW the doors are part of the hull, hell they basically are the entire hull before the pod lands.

4/5 people who voted think the doors should be ignored. 1/50 people who voted agree with the RAW. This means make the game playable for the vast majority of people we stray away from the RAW. If 40k was written a little more thoroughly, we'd be able to just take the RAW and run with it and this whole forum wouldn't have to exist. In games like M:TG, the RAW is law, house rules are all but nonexistent. 40k doesn't have this luxury.

This just happens to be where almost everyone agrees on the same houserule. You'd be hard pressed to find a gaming group anywhere in the world that doesn't use some variation of "drop pod doors don't count". Any that don't have this unofficial rule probably don't have any players with drop pods.

here is how my gaming group play it

if doors can open/are opened they are treated as clear terrain and do not confer any cover saves - only shooting though the hull confers the cover

if they cannot be opened we ignore them the best we can for LOS

How people want to play something and how they say it should be played are essentially the same thing. It's how people want to play and what the rules actually say how to play that are in conflict. The point you seem to be missing is that we all know how the rules actually work - by RAW the doors are part of the hull, hell they basically are the entire hull before the pod lands.

4/5 people who voted think the doors should be ignored. 1/50 people who voted agree with the RAW. This means make the game playable for the vast majority of people we stray away from the RAW. If 40k was written a little more thoroughly, we'd be able to just take the RAW and run with it and this whole forum wouldn't have to exist. In games like M:TG, the RAW is law, house rules are all but nonexistent. 40k doesn't have this luxury.

This just happens to be where almost everyone agrees on the same houserule. You'd be hard pressed to find a gaming group anywhere in the world that doesn't use some variation of "drop pod doors don't count". Any that don't have this unofficial rule probably don't have any players with drop pods.

So you're basically proving his point? And you did find a gaming group that counts the doors, mine, and the OP's.

I still disagree that RaW is 100% clear that the doors are part of the Hull. You certainly can choose to houserule it that they are part of the hull, but that is a choice you are making.

The way the vaste majority of players play it is that the doors don't count because logistically it causes too many problems. Particularly if you're playing on say a 4'x4' board or if you are using a number of drop pods.

RaW is pretty silent on whether the Doors count on the hull or not so that is a judgement you are making. So you can choose to use them as part of the hull as your houserule. However don't be surprised if you try to pull that in a Tournament and then get over ruled or if you try to play that in a different gaming group and everyone looks at you as if you're mental or down right accuse you of cheating...

I put b because I think you can move and shoot over them without negative effect but they are part of the model so could be assaulted.

FlingitNow wrote:I still disagree that RaW is 100% clear that the doors are part of the Hull. You certainly can choose to houserule it that they are part of the hull, but that is a choice you are making.

The way the vaste majority of players play it is that the doors don't count because logistically it causes too many problems. Particularly if you're playing on say a 4'x4' board or if you are using a number of drop pods.

RaW is pretty silent on whether the Doors count on the hull or not so that is a judgement you are making. So you can choose to use them as part of the hull as your houserule. However don't be surprised if you try to pull that in a Tournament and then get over ruled or if you try to play that in a different gaming group and everyone looks at you as if you're mental or down right accuse you of cheating...

Did you not see the definition for "Hull"--Hull Definition-3. The outer casing of a rocket, guided missile, or spaceship It is part of the hull if we are technically speaking which is RAW.

Grey Elder - first, see the tenets of YMDC and dictionary definitions.

Secondly - using the dictionary for the language the book is written in would be more appropriate, i.e. OED.

Grey elder wrote:Did you not see the definition for "Hull"--Hull Definition-3. The outer casing of a rocket, guided missile, or spaceship It is part of the hull if we are technically speaking which is RAW.

That makes them part of the hull when they're closed. When they're open, they're just ramps...

i play option "F": drop pods are silliness and those who spam them are to be shunned as brainwashed imperial scum, who deserved to be krumped good in da head wif a decent stikkbomm.

insaniak wrote:

Grey elder wrote:Did you not see the definition for "Hull"--Hull Definition-3. The outer casing of a rocket, guided missile, or spaceship It is part of the hull if we are technically speaking which is RAW.

That makes them part of the hull when they're closed. When they're open, they're just ramps...

well I would disagree with you they are just parts of the hull that can be lowered.

You would be correct except that would mean a) you're changing the structure of the hull mid-game and b) one would then have to count all door, ramps, planks, and the like as part of the hull c) you've created something with at least a 175cm^2 area of denial.

ChrisCP wrote:You would be correct except that would mean a) you're changing the structure of the hull mid-game and b) one would then have to count all door, ramps, planks, and the like as part of the hull c) you've created something with at least a 175cm^2 area of denial.

Ok well any wyas i drop the drop pods with the doors down when i nomrally play the game unless its my red headed friend roby . so by that way iam not changing anything one the model and i am personally fine with dealing with my 12inches of denial taken up by ny doors its up to you to wreck it. so by all means blow it up and take that space back.